GUILTY WI - Kelly Dwyer, 27, Milwaukee, 11 Oct 2013 - *Arrest* #2

[Snoods]

Sorry, just started reading about this case--was it ever made known what kind of drugs were found at KZ's apartment? (Trying to determine what state of mind he might have been in.)

:welcome5: I just noticed you are new to the forum! So, welcome to the group and the forum!

Glad to have you here!:loveyou:

 

[fernia]

With Lake Michigan and all the inland lakes around here, I truly believe that was his most likely means of disposal. Much easier than digging and he had a boat at his disposal. Also, fishing/boating related items may have been on his mind when he told LE he was taking sports equipment to his parents' house. Hmmm....I wonder where that boat was kept over the winter.

 

[fernia]

Also, he may have used someone else's boat. Something docked inland. Boaters hang with other boaters. Given the length of time he was unaccounted for, a secluded lake in northern Wisconsin seems to be a very probable scenario. People from southeastern Wisconsin flock "up north" for weekends and vacations. Which means this could be an area he is very familiar with.

 

[fernia]

Heck, people from Illinois flock up to northern Wisconsin too. More Illinois plates up there than Wisconsin plates. Kelly is from Illinois. Does anyone know why Kelly moved to and lived in Milwaukee?

 

[fernia]

One more thing....back to the very beginning. How did Kelly ever meet KZ?

 

[SlothSleuth]

The one where Kelly is struggling to breath and he tells her to breath through her nose sounds a bit sadistic, doesn't it?

Absolutely....add that in with drugs, seems completely plausible that a night of rough sex could have gone bad and he panicked.

 

[Snoods]

Absolutely....add that in with drugs, seems completely plausible that a night of rough sex could have gone bad and he panicked.

This is what always has me scratching my head like a chimpanzee. Say their rough sex =dead girlfriend. You say uhoh, get rid of drugs and your copious amounts of child *advertiser censored*, and call the police.

He even had it the rough sex on film! Shoot, even admitting a little drug use isn't that bad. Potentially our child *advertiser censored* connoisseur walks. Still a scum bag, but he walks.

Instead, he performs this ridiculous hours long scheme to drive the body hours away, lies to LE, makes so many mistakes along the way, including leaving child *advertiser censored* and drugs for police to find, all while knowing he'll be the prime suspect in her disappearance. I would be less surprised if he'd worn a sandwich board with "I :heartbeat: Child *advertiser censored*" on one side and "Have sex w/ me, enjoy a shower curtain grave!" on the other.

I just don't understand the panic to get rid of Kelly but still leaving your child *advertiser censored*, drugs, and make so many mistakes along the way if it was an accidental death.

I think nobody could be that stupid, and Kris is supposed to smart, so what he did to Kelly had to be worth what he did. I think it was murder.

 

[Snoods]

One more thing....back to the very beginning. How did Kelly ever meet KZ?

MKE would know that. Calling MKE!!!!!!! For some reason I don't believe they met on a dating website. I'll send her a PM and ask her.

 

[docwho3]

This is what always has me scratching my head like a chimpanzee. Say their rough sex =dead girlfriend. You say uhoh, get rid of drugs and your copious amounts of child *advertiser censored*, and call the police.

He even had it the rough sex on film! Shoot, even admitting a little drug use isn't that bad. Potentially our child *advertiser censored* connoisseur walks. Still a scum bag, but he walks.

Instead, he performs this ridiculous hours long scheme to drive the body hours away, lies to LE, makes so many mistakes along the way, including leaving child *advertiser censored* and drugs for police to find, all while knowing he'll be the prime suspect in her disappearance. I would be less surprised if he'd worn a sandwich board with "I :heartbeat: Child *advertiser censored*" on one side and "Have sex w/ me, enjoy a shower curtain grave!" on the other.

I just don't understand the panic to get rid of Kelly but still leaving your child *advertiser censored*, drugs, and make so many mistakes along the way if it was an accidental death.

I think nobody could be that stupid, and Kris is supposed to smart, so what he did to Kelly had to be worth what he did. I think it was murder.

His actions are difficult to understand. I do have a few ideas about that but for now I am more interested in how everyone else feels about his actions or lack of actions.

Note: My antibiotics are finally starting to do some good. I don't feel like everything is spinning around me now.

Guess we need to get the drive directions and drive time from his current apartment to where he used to work and live and also to a few other places people have posted about and see if any of it fits with the ummm about 16 hour round trip minus an hour to clean up the car (even if he later sent it out for further detailing) . . . so about 15 hours or about 7.5 hours each way? (No I did not sit with paper or calc and do the math exactly so perhaps we should get a bit more exact but I am just posting an approx. guesstimate for now.) If anyone likes a different time window I am all ears and by all means do the work up on it too.

 

[Snoods]

His actions are difficult to understand. I do have a few ideas about that but for now I am more interested in how everyone else feels about his actions or lack of actions.

Note: My antibiotics are finally starting to do some good. I don't feel like everything is spinning around me now.

Guess we need to get the drive directions and drive time from his current apartment to where he used to work and live and also to a few other places people have posted about and see if any of it fits with the ummm about 16 hour round trip minus an hour to clean up the car (even if he later sent it out for further detailing) . . . so about 15 hours or about 7.5 hours each way? (No I did not sit with paper or calc and do the math exactly so perhaps we should get a bit more exact but I am just posting an approx. guesstimate for now.) If anyone likes a different time window I am all ears and by all means do the work up on it too.

Yay, I'm so glad you're feeling better! Feeling spinny doesn't sound like your run of the mill cold or flu. Don't get out on the road unless you're truly better...

I'm up for the task to help you, are you talking virtual driving or actual driving?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Thanks for the info. Sorry for the delay in answering. I came down with some germ and have a Dr. appointment in a little while.

I have not had energy to verify the time line info but taken 'as is' we have numbers to work with. However, we do need to decide how much time we allow for the digging and also we need to decide if he started out with a destination in mind. I mean he could have put her in the car and then drove somewhere and sat and thought about where to take her or he might have already had some destination in mind. Now if he had not done this sort of thing before he might be tempted to take her to some place he knew about from having lived or played there in the past. Also: Do we think he actually brought that car back to the garage without stopping somewhere to clean it some himself. If such a thing had ever happened to me I know I would not trust anyone else to detail a car I had used to transport a body unless I had first cleaned it myself as there is too much riding on no evidence ever being found in that vehicle. I would appreciate input from our posting members as to the time figure on the digging. . . and input on the other things mentioned.

If this was you (any posting member) and something happened in your apartment and a person died even if you didn't mean for it to happen but you were afraid to just dial 911 due to drugs being involved or due to kinky rough sex game being responsible with what was supposed to be unconsciousness but which resulted in death or whatever reason. . . . If this was you would you know just where to take a body that was far enough away to not implicate you by being too close to home and secluded enough for you to not be seen dumping the body and for the body to not easily be found? How long would you dither in a panic at home before deciding to dispose of the body? How long would you then take to decide how to move the body to your vehicle without being seen? How long would you then take to decide where to take the body? I wonder if he has friends or relatives that own land within our final burial radius?


Thanks for the kind words but it isn't my skills as much as the group as a whole. I just made a couple of suggestions as to a direction we might take in trying to figure this stuff out.

Great sleuthing mind, Doc! :websleuther:

I have a thought...

I would imagine someone who has been repeatedly involved in these near-death kinky sex games would have considered the likely scenario of the risk of something "going wrong"...

So... It is very possible KZ may have "entertained" the thought of such outcome... And what he would do in such a case...(I.e... Where to hide a body, etc.)

Maybe he did not make a full on plan... But I imagine a rudimentary plan would have entered his brain...

Additionally... From the looks and sounds of KZ... He doesn't seem to be an athletic, nor fit, person... So it is not likely he would have the brawn nor stamina to dig a very deep grave for hiding a body...

But... These are just thoughts... And alternatives should not be eliminated, either...

JMO

P.S. Hope you feel better soon, Doc! :seeya:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Hey y'all... I am new to this case but wanted to offer some thoughts on digging and other things ...

I have dug a hole for an in ground pond/waterfall. I had to dig a hole about 3 feet deep by 4 feet by 5 feet and it tool ALL AFTERNOON. And this was just in the back yard. You dont want to dig with tree roots etc.

If the suspect was digging at night he would need light(s) and would need to be in a place where lights and someone digging would not be seen.

Is there the possibility that a hole was dug somewhere ahead of time at at leisure?

Burying a body can, actually, preserve more evidence than just leaving it out on the surface (where it will decay faster, get broken up, scattered, etc.)


A lot of times when people drive around "randomly" they actually follow some familiar pattern and don't go as far as they think they do. They tend to loop back, etc.

:welcome: Carla!

You have brought up something that has not crossed my mind...

Could this murder have been premeditated?

Maybe KZ's interest in near death asphyxiation during sex had escalated to another "level" of interest...

Could he have reached the level of wishing to satisfy his curiosity/fetish of killing someone while engaged in sex?

:waitasec:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Welcome Carla! Glad you could make it here. :cheerful:

The one where Kelly is struggling to breath and he tells her to breath through her nose sounds a bit sadistic, doesn't it?

Yes.... Seems like there is a better way to help someone to start breathing more easily... Like ... Stop strangling them...

:no:

 

[docwho3]

Yay, I'm so glad you're feeling better! Feeling spinny doesn't sound like your run of the mill cold or flu. Don't get out on the road unless you're truly better...

I am beginning to mend finally. Unfortunately my wife had an episode of tachycardia (rapid heart beat) and I had to take her into ER where they gave her a med to reboot her heart and it worked but they are going to keep her overnight for observation. She has also had the same bug I have been fighting so she isn't really feeling top notch but after I take her some stuff from home I might be able to look in here later tonight.

I'm up for the task to help you, are you talking virtual driving or actual driving?

I was thinking virtual. In yahoo maps you can plug in the addresses and get driving directions and estimated travel time for that route. I assume you can do the same with google and other drive map websites/apps.

 

[Snoods]

:welcome: Carla!

You have brought up something that has not crossed my mind...

Could this murder have been premeditated?

Maybe KZ's interest in near death asphyxiation during sex had escalated to another "level" of interest...

Could he have reached the level of wishing to satisfy his curiosity/fetish of killing someone while engaged in sex?

:waitasec:

So he wasn't reaching the same level of arousal as he had been (sorry, that grossed me out too) and decided to up the ante. So he made his very own snuff film!

Wow, maybe this really was premeditated....

 

[Snoods]

His actions are difficult to understand. I do have a few ideas about that but for now I am more interested in how everyone else feels about his actions or lack of actions.

Note: My antibiotics are finally starting to do some good. I don't feel like everything is spinning around me now.

Guess we need to get the drive directions and drive time from his current apartment to where he used to work and live and also to a few other places people have posted about and see if any of it fits with the ummm about 16 hour round trip minus an hour to clean up the car (even if he later sent it out for further detailing) . . . so about 15 hours or about 7.5 hours each way? (No I did not sit with paper or calc and do the math exactly so perhaps we should get a bit more exact but I am just posting an approx. guesstimate for now.) If anyone likes a different time window I am all ears and by all means do the work up on it too.

I would say closer to 20 hours round trip, less an hour, maybe two, to get the car cleaned, eat, go to the bathroom. So 18 hours, 9 each way? What do you think? I'm terrible at math.

 

[docwho3]

I would say closer to 20 hours round trip, less an hour, maybe two, to get the car cleaned, eat, go to the bathroom. So 18 hours, 9 each way? What do you think? I'm terrible at math.

Well, he left after 6 pm and came back after 2 pm so that's about 20 hours but then we take away 4 hours for the max dig time and that 16 hours and then an hour for car cleaning leaves about 15 hours for the round trip but that's just how I figured the math.

 

[2Hope4]

Police still have his vehicle? This guy doesn't seem too smart, and lazy. Add in his drug use, and doubtful he spent the entire time driving or digging. Doubtful he did any digging. Just seems too lazy. I'd say he slept at some point, since he had been up all night doing drugs. Don't they usually crash after that?

Nothing about Kelly's death seems accidental. His responses show it wasn't an accident. He seems to think he's smart, and whatever he says others will believe. Hate to burst his bubble, but that thinking is like every other murderer that has been caught, arrested, and found guilty. He's nothing special in that regard. His sick obsessions...well...that's 'special'...he's one dude I'll be glad is behind bars for the rest of his life. Don't need someone like him.

JMO

 

[docwho3]

. . .he did have daylight hours to do this. He was seen on surveillance camera leaving his condo at 6:15 pm and didn't return until 2:41 pm the next afternoon. So it could have been daylight or night.

Well, he left well after 6PM and assuming he drove about 7 1/2 hours that puts him starting to dig at about 1:30 am or 2 am (loose approx.) So then he digs 3 to 4 hours and is done at approx. 5:00 am or 6:00 am and if he drives back another 7 1/2 hours and gets back at about approx. 1:00 pm or 1:30 pm and cleans car for awhile and returns home after 2 PM (almost 3:00 pm.) (To be more exact we should actually plug in the numbers from the time line as you mentioned.)

He could have just buried her much closer to home but that would leave him out and about for many hours of unaccounted time during which he was doing what? (Just thinking out loud.)

 

[docwho3]

Does anyone know when he is said to have interacted with anyone after returning home at 2:41 pm? (in the immediate following hours.)

I ask because I am wondering if he went in and slept or if he had normal daytime activities which might indicate he had time to sleep elsewhere
which might cut into that magic drive time number for that burial radius.