WI WI - Rhinelander, WhtMale 25-45, UP60642, in field, 6'4, poss wore glasses, Helbros watch, Mar'80 - Norman John Christopher Grasser

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ChatteringBirds said:
I noticed NamUs currently gives 6'0" for the height for this UID -- not that it makes a huge difference.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Click to expand...
It makes a pretty significant difference from 6' to 6'4", I would say. 6' is not a super unusual height for an adult male in WI, whereas 6'4" would be noticeable and thought of as "very tall".

Here are a couple other than Andrew Viater and Theodore Jost that would be worth a look at, let me know if any have been already ruled out:
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) David Lowe, this is a long shot, but if someone wanted to drive as far north from TX as possible to dump a body, Rhinelander seems like a good option...
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) Robert Meredith, Indiana is not far off from WI
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) David Morrison, wore glasses and was in last seen in Hammond, IN which is basically a straight shoot to WI on the interstate.
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) Allen Stolzenberg, not a lot of info here, but height and weight match up
 
This person had to have connections to the area. People just don't "pop in" to Rhinelander in the winter. It's north woods. My parents owned a cottage near Minocqua during that time. The only people around that time of year were locals and snowmobilers. We never went up there in the winter...ever.. and we lived in the Green Bay area. Very few of my friends went to their cottages in the winter, unless they were die hard snowmobilers.

I was surprised that they even have a TV station..LOL...It's pretty remote and at the time, the only highway going into the area was two lane.
I am surprised, since he died of hypothermia, that there was not a vehicle near by.

His choice of footwear indicates he was not planning on walking for any length of time. It is strange that there is no vehicle near by....
I wonder if there was a vehicle and it was towed prior to discovering this UID? Still a towed vehicle could be traced to the owner. I kinda doubt that there were unclaimed vehicles....(I would think an unclaimed vehicle would be a big deal up there....yeah...that's kinda the way it is...watching paint dry kind of excitement!)
 
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Article:

He could have been there for three months.
He was discovered about 100 feet from a highway, by a couple who were walking on their private snowmobile trail. It appears he was found in fairly warm weather based on the attire of the officers. Pretty good article.

https://wnanews.com/wp-content/2020BNC/2020_WNA_Foundation_Better_Newspaper_Contest/Reporting-Writing/20_Enterprise-Interpretive_Reporting_(C)/Third_Place_The_Northwoods_River_News_3/Attachment_01.pdf






Interesting comments about his attire on r.dd.t

They are also echoing my opinion about the shoes.

I just noticed, he wasn't wearing gloves.
 
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Just a very minor note;
BigCityAccountant noted the 'brown corduroy jacket'
was manufactured by 'Montgomery Ward' ('Brent' was
one of their brand names), there is a Wiki for that original
company which went bankrupt circa year 2000.
That business manufactured or sourced 'department store'
type of items, the company had both stores and a catalog
mail-order business ongoing in the late 70's.

Upon viewing the high resolution picture of the 'brown
corduroy jacket';
https://www.namus.gov/api/CaseSets/NamUs/UnidentifiedPersons/Cases/60642/Images/61632/Original
it can be seen that the lower inner lining has two
screen-printed like repeating motifs.
Of the two repeating motifs, the first I initially
thought possibly to be a in the shape of a bird but is
more probably a two color fleur-de-lis, here are a
number of fleur-de-lis examples for comparison;
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/da/73/1b/da731b797ca61d74276f339e36cade36.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/natchitochesparishjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/JOB-CON.jpg

The second motif has an ink-blue central portion, the
probable best viewable example of it is that seen
beneath the zipper pull tab - I believe I see what
appears to be on the left of the motif, a cherub, with
body, head and wings, possibly holding an arrow shaft
and with a heart shape above its head. The cherub
appears to be supporting (in the center of the image)
an ink-blue shield type shape, probably a shield such
as is seen on heraldic coat-of-arms. The remainder of
that motif on the right of the shield appears to be a
mirror-image of the cherub done in a different color.
Given the fleur-de-lis, the inner lining of the 'brown
corduroy jacket' could have been sourced from wholesale
makers in a city such as such as Chicago, St. Louis,
St. Paul or Louisiana.

Although the above information does not help us ID the
deceased person, I have some other ideas that someone
local to Rhinelander might be able to action and I have
a PM waiting for Gourami Watcher to read.
 
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I wonder if he could possibly be Native American? I know they said white, but there are quite a few reservations up there...

I'm also not convinced that some sort of foul play wasn't involved. I don't think he was intentionally killed, but I see that he had a house/cabin key and no other keys and yet he's not wearing gloves...Did he get in a fight with someone who was giving him a ride? They hypothesized that he may have stopped to pee, but where were his car keys? I always take my car keys with me. It was something I learned in driver's ed....(Safety thing) ...Something is just a little hinky with his clothing to be some guy walking in the woods....And with no evidence of a vehicle, how did he get there?
 
MadMcGoo said:
Hey! Could this be a playing card? Like from a casino??
View attachment 224809
of course I haven’t been able to find the exact one...
IBEW International Brotherhood Electrical Workers 2 Playing Card Decks Poker NIP • $21.97

Another thing I noticed were the dates....
“1880” seems to be when the first house was lighted by electricity.
“1980” looks to be when the card was made?
“Our 89th Anniversary”, I’m assuming ‘our’ refers to IBEW? And that they weren’t a thing in 1880? Otherwise the 89th anniversary would have been 1969. Right? (I think I just answered my own question) But I do believe this could be a playing card...who knows where its 51 other friends are!
Click to expand...

I think @BigCityAccountant answered your question earlier. In the lower left corner of the card there is a circular logo showing that the IBEW came into being in 1891.

The dimensions of the card are the sizes of a classic business card 3.5 inches by 2 inches. If it is a business card it might mean the UID was given it by a member if the UID was interested in getting a job with them.
 
Grungster said:
I just found an article from March....he died of exposure and hit his head after he slipped on the side of the road. There was also a sketch of him from the initial investigation, I wonder why it's not on NamUs?

41 years later: search for John Doe 1980 continues // WJFW Newswatch 12
Click to expand...

Why couldn't they have released this information 40 years ago? Such a lost opportunity. I have no idea why LE did not release a sketch or even a picture of the deceased at the time of his discovery.

Well, I went down the Helbros rabbit hole and it is a fascinating one. I don't think the officer calling the watch the equivalent of a Rolex to be accurate. I've been checking out the history of the Helbros watches on various sites and they seemed to be mid range watches where the target market was credit jewelers, jobbers and door to door salesmen. The quality was all over the map since the company focused on many demographics from really cheap watches to very well made ones that are now collectors items. The company wasn't actually a watch manufacturer but a contract manufacturer so they bought the components to assemble watches from many suppliers including France, Switzerland and Germany. Supposedly those three, especially the German-made ones are considered the best quality. I've seen prices for them on eBay and Etsy and other online vintage watch sellers ranging from $15.00 to an $800.00 price point, miniscule compared to Rolex. That being said a watch going for $39.00 in 1951 would cost just slightly over a 1000 bucks now!

Here's two pretty good sites that provide a lot of detail regarding the company.

Helbros Watches

The following one is a great website since it shows many print ads for this watch brand from the late 1920s to the 1970s. I've gone through them to see if I can identify the year our UID's watch was made but haven't found a complete match yet. The dial numbers can be all over the map with either all numbers, numbers 3, 6, 9 and 12 or 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12 or no numbers at all. I can't find one with West Germany printed on the dial. West Germany was created in 1949 which is the same year the Invincible was introduced.

Vintage Helbros Watch Advertisments — Buying On Time Vintage Watches

One thing I did read was that the watches appeared to be most popular in Nebraska, Utah and Minnesota. Harold Haynes was from Minnesota.
 
Grungster said:
Detective hoping to identify victim of 40-year-old cold case

Foul play is not suspected, but something seems suspicious, seeing that he was in a field. Maybe he died naturally or of an overdose and was dumped?
Click to expand...

I makes me think that LE is correct that the deceased may have slipped and hit his head and died of exposure but how he ended up in a field suggests that someone may have come across him and instead of getting him help decided to rob the poor guy and pulled his body into the field. I don't see him ending up on his back in a field if he slipped on the icy road or shoulder without some help. Either that, or he was suffering from hypothermia and became disoriented. Although, usually, individuals suffering from hypothermia exhibit paradoxical undressing. I wonder if we can get hold of the autopsy results to see if his internal organs were affected by hypothermia as indicated in this link.

Why are people found in the backcountry with their clothes missing? — StrangeOutdoors.com
 
Alleykins said:
I'm surprised a local number wasn't printed on the calendar. Even if it were celebrating the founding of the whole organization, usually everything I've received from the union was personalized with our local number on it.
Here's the sketch which appeared in the news broadcast, he's very distinctive:
Click to expand...

Can we get a mod to put the sketch at the introduction of the thread? I really wonder if the ratios are correct for this UID? The chin seems to be really large in comparison to the nose.
 
There's only one rule out in NamUs:
MP56141 - Ernest Palmer 01/09/2019 Essex NJ

Do we know if this UP has DNA?
Also, did someone submit Harold Haynes yet? It's possible he hasn't been compared, depending where the UP's dental and fingerprints are being held.
 
Friday Fan said:
Article:

He could have been there for three months.
He was discovered about 100 feet from a highway, by a couple who were walking on their private snowmobile trail. It appears he was found in fairly warm weather based on the attire of the officers. Pretty good article.

https://wnanews.com/wp-content/2020...The_Northwoods_River_News_3/Attachment_01.pdf






Interesting comments about his attire on r.dd.t

They are also echoing my opinion about the shoes.

I just noticed, he wasn't wearing gloves.
Click to expand...

That is a good article. The first time I've read he had a wallet on him with cash and other items including a compass and comb. If LE and the coroner felt foul play was not involved in this death I don't know why the current officers would have held back information that was originally released. It makes no sense to me.
 
buyerninety said:
Just a very minor note;
BigCityAccountant noted the 'brown corduroy jacket'
was manufactured by 'Montgomery Ward' ('Brent' was
one of their brand names), there is a Wiki for that original
company which went bankrupt circa year 2000.
That business manufactured or sourced 'department store'
type of items, the company had both stores and a catalog
mail-order business ongoing in the late 70's.

Upon viewing the high resolution picture of the 'brown
corduroy jacket';
https://www.namus.gov/api/CaseSets/NamUs/UnidentifiedPersons/Cases/60642/Images/61632/Original
it can be seen that the lower inner lining has two
screen-printed like repeating motifs.
Of the two repeating motifs, the first I initially
thought possibly to be a in the shape of a bird but is
more probably a two color fleur-de-lis, here are a
number of fleur-de-lis examples for comparison;
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/da/73/1b/da731b797ca61d74276f339e36cade36.jpg
https://i0.wp.com/natchitochesparishjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/JOB-CON.jpg

The second motif has an ink-blue central portion, the
probable best viewable example of it is that seen
beneath the zipper pull tab - I believe I see what
appears to be on the left of the motif, a cherub, with
body, head and wings, possibly holding an arrow shaft
and with a heart shape above its head. The cherub
appears to be supporting (in the center of the image)
an ink-blue shield type shape, probably a shield such
as is seen on heraldic coat-of-arms. The remainder of
that motif on the right of the shield appears to be a
mirror-image of the cherub done in a different color.
Given the fleur-de-lis, the inner lining of the 'brown
corduroy jacket' could have been sourced from wholesale
makers in a city such as such as Chicago, St. Louis,
St. Paul or Louisiana.

Although the above information does not help us ID the
deceased person, I have some other ideas that someone
local to Rhinelander might be able to action and I have
a PM waiting for Gourami Watcher to read.
Click to expand...

I think you are correct about the fleur de lis. I think the other image is two lions rampant facing a shield which is very common in heraldic crests. Similar to this image. There are hundreds of variations.
 

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Alleykins said:
There's only one rule out in NamUs:
MP56141 - Ernest Palmer 01/09/2019 Essex NJ

Do we know if this UP has DNA?
Also, did someone submit Harold Haynes yet? It's possible he hasn't been compared, depending where the UP's dental and fingerprints are being held.
Click to expand...

I like Harold Haynes, too. My problem is that the autopsy said the deceased had bilateral alopecia which is a fancy way to say he had a receding hairline in the classic way: starting at the temple on both sides. The images I see of Harold, he doesn't appear to have a receding hairline. I think Harold looks Native American but they are the one ethnic group that don't appear to be stricken with male pattern baldness.
 
branmuffin said:
I like Harold Haynes, too. My problem is that the autopsy said the deceased had bilateral alopecia which is a fancy way to say he had a receding hairline in the classic way: starting at the temple on both sides. The images I see of Harold, he doesn't appear to have a receding hairline. I think Harold looks Native American but they are the one ethnic group that don't appear to be stricken with male pattern baldness.
Click to expand...

I think they should be compared, just in case.

I find it strange someone would have a wallet with no ID of any kind in it.
 
Grungster said:
I just found an article from March....he died of exposure and hit his head after he slipped on the side of the road. There was also a sketch of him from the initial investigation, I wonder why it's not on NamUs?

41 years later: search for John Doe 1980 continues // WJFW Newswatch 12
Click to expand...

He was found 100' from the road, so if he had merely slipped and bumped his head, surely he would have been found near the edge of the road.

I wonder if he had been hit by a snowplow.
 
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