GUILTY New Zealand - Dr. Lauren Dickason, 40, charged w/killing her 3 young daughters, Timaru, 16 Sep 2021

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  • #501
In this case I think LD will be found guilty. I don’t think we have seen evidence that she really was acting in an altruistic way, and that she genuinely thought the children would be better off dead. I think she acted for herself, that she would be better off if the children were not around.

MOO
 
  • #502
Kemug said:
A lot is being said about her relationship with her children. I had not realised that they were all from donor eggs - so perhaps she was never able to feel that they were indeed her children.
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Right. And she sounds jealous of them as well… just such a bad situation for them…
 
  • #503
Did the defendant have a therapist back in SA before they moved to New Zealand? I have read through all of the case info but cannot determine if she did.

If she did have a therapist, was this therapist told that the defendant wanted to harm her children? If the therapist was not told this, why not? Fear of losing a license, fear of not getting the approval to move to NZ?

My point in asking about this is if the defendant did not tell people other than her husband, who was supposed to step in and help? At some point, the responsibility lies with the defendant, an educated woman. A woman educated in the field of medicine.
 
  • #504
  • #505
Dickason told expert that deleting searches was 'one of my OCD things'

"The defendant didn't tell Metoui about the searches but after he found out, he went back to meet with her. He asked Dickason why she had cleared the history from her phone."

"I do not consider these internet searches on a balance of probabilities as necessarily indicative of Ms Dickason actively planning and plotting to kill her children per se. Rather they reflect to me that Ms Dickason was likely grappling with filicidal thoughts that she was finding increasingly difficult to control and suppress."
 
  • #506
alexwood said:
"I do not consider these internet searches on a balance of probabilities as necessarily indicative of Ms Dickason actively planning and plotting to kill her children per se.
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IMO, forensic psychologists talk about every murderer this way. Dr. John on Hidden True crime has said the same kind of thing about Brian Koberger and Rex Huermann: they were overwhelmed by their homicidal impulses, brought on by childhood trauma, often bullying, or losing a parent, etc.

JMO
 
  • #507
Well, if I wanted to stifle any filicidal urges, I don't think I would be googling ways to fulfill them.
 
  • #508
  • #509
Deliberations are starting this morning. Can’t wait to see her get a giant sentence and drown in shame.
 
  • #510
  • #511
I don't think it will take the jury too long to find her sane and guilty.

I don't buy the suicide attempt at all either, she is a GP and knows that a dozen or so (guesstimate) of tramadol and antidepressants will not be successful, also superficial cuts from a blunt knife... Nah
 
  • #512
'Aug 13, 2023
Justice Cameron Mander delivers his summation to the jury in the Lauren Dickason triple murder trial.'
 
  • #513
Jw192 said:
I don't think it will take the jury too long to find her sane and guilty.

I don't buy the suicide attempt at all either, she is a GP and knows that a dozen or so (guesstimate) of tramadol and antidepressants will not be successful, also superficial cuts from a blunt knife... Nah
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Right?! I feel like we haven't really talked about the fact that it would be perfectly likely that she is taking advantage of the law/literature on PPD/infanticide and lying to make what she did fit those descriptions... like, what murderer wouldn't do that if they could? To me, that's what's going on here.
 
  • #514
The jury have changed their mind about watching Graham Dickason’s police interview again. Not sure what to read into that.
 
  • #515
kiwi50 said:
The jury have changed their mind about watching Graham Dickason’s police interview again. Not sure what to read into that.
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I’m hoping they think it’s not necessary as their minds are made up that she’s guilty.
 
  • #516
Marysmith said:
I’m hoping they think it’s not necessary as their minds are made up that she’s guilty.
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My guess is just because it’s a lot longer than LD interview
 
  • #517
Sararara said:
Right?! I feel like we haven't really talked about the fact that it would be perfectly likely that she is taking advantage of the law/literature on PPD/infanticide and lying to make what she did fit those descriptions... like, what murderer wouldn't do that if they could? To me, that's what's going on here.
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I see what you’re saying, but realistically any lawyer worth their salt would be arguing infanticide/insanity with her mental health history. It’s the job of legal counsel to defend their client to the best of their legal ability.
If they didn’t, it would make Lauren more likely to get a new trial in the future, on the basis of inadequate legal representation. Moo of course.

In any case I hope the definitions of infanticide are tightened up, as the threshold reads pretty low, for a layperson like me anyway.

Did I read somewhere that Graham has forgiven Lauren for killing the girls? As different as the cases are, Andrea Yates’ husband forgave her too, and never thought she was really to blame. I wonder if forgiving her is the easiest option, rather than living with a heart full of anger and bitterness. Thinking of him during this time.
 
  • #518
silvercrown said:
I see what you’re saying, but realistically any lawyer worth their salt would be arguing infanticide/insanity with her mental health history. It’s the job of legal counsel to defend their client to the best of their legal ability.
If they didn’t, it would make Lauren more likely to get a new trial in the future, on the basis of inadequate legal representation. Moo of course.

In any case I hope the definitions of infanticide are tightened up, as the threshold reads pretty low, for a layperson like me anyway.

Did I read somewhere that Graham has forgiven Lauren for killing the girls? As different as the cases are, Andrea Yates’ husband forgave her too, and never thought she was really to blame. I wonder if forgiving her is the easiest option, rather than living with a heart full of anger and bitterness. Thinking of him during this time.
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Yeah you’re right, I’m sure that defence was not her own idea. Still I just feel that some people trust her account and aren’t questioning how she said she felt… and she absolutely has reason to try to reframe her actions as PPD/infanticide. And tbh I think the holes in the case are quite obvious.

Graham did say he forgave her initially. But I’m not sure how he feels now. He also said “she’s done this to hurt me”. Both of those statements were made within 24-48 hours of the killings.

To me they suggest he was afraid to lose everyone at once (lauren as well as the kids, and blamed himself for what happened, which could be a pattern in their relationship).

I’m not one to find fault with Graham. A lot of people are, but I feel like he may have been emotionally abused/codependent and unable to see things clearly. If you look at a subreddit like BPDLovedones, you can see how a dynamic like that could develop- where a personality disordered individual plays victim constantly, makes repeated dramatic and sometimes violent threats, and their partner is lost as to how to respond. They try being emotionally supportive, but they often get abused in the process, and can become disoriented and end up just shutting down and becoming avoidant. We can’t know if this happened here, but it does seem like Graham was frustrated with Lauren- hence the “big girl panties” comment. He also seemed to be trying to improve their lives by emigrating from South Africa. Which… I come from there and now live in Nz… is an awful place (SA that is) and anyone that can leave wants to leave, I think. So it’s not like he made a crazy decision for their family.

I am not sure the move played a part at all other than to force Lauren to parent more and increasing her resentment as a result.
 
  • #519
Sararara said:
Yeah you’re right, I’m sure that defence was not her own idea. Still I just feel that some people trust her account and aren’t questioning how she said she felt… and she absolutely has reason to try to reframe her actions as PPD/infanticide. And tbh I think the holes in the case are quite obvious.

Graham did say he forgave her initially. But I’m not sure how he feels now. He also said “she’s done this to hurt me”. Both of those statements were made within 24-48 hours of the killings.

To me they suggest he was afraid to lose everyone at once (lauren as well as the kids, and blamed himself for what happened, which could be a pattern in their relationship).

I’m not one to find fault with Graham. A lot of people are, but I feel like he may have been emotionally abused/codependent and unable to see things clearly. If you look at a subreddit like BPDLovedones, you can see how a dynamic like that could develop- where a personality disordered individual plays victim constantly, makes repeated dramatic and sometimes violent threats, and their partner is lost as to how to respond. They try being emotionally supportive, but they often get abused in the process, and can become disoriented and end up just shutting down and becoming avoidant. We can’t know if this happened here, but it does seem like Graham was frustrated with Lauren- hence the “big girl panties” comment. He also seemed to be trying to improve their lives by emigrating from South Africa. Which… I come from there and now live in Nz… is an awful place (SA that is) and anyone that can leave wants to leave, I think. So it’s not like he made a crazy decision for their family.

I am not sure the move played a part at all other than to force Lauren to parent more and increasing her resentment as a result.
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I can see where you’re coming from with your first point regarding LD defence seemingly reframing some of the things she said to fit the definition of infanticide. I’ll be surprised if the jury find her not guilty.

Regarding Graham though, I agree it’s not his fault but imo he definitely had his head in the sand with regards to a few things. I kind of get the impression their marriage was pretty loveless and full of resentment on both parts, rather than him being codependent or emotionally abused. Moo only though just from what I’ve read from the court updates and reports from their initial interviews. Total respect to your opinion though :)
 
  • #520
silvercrown said:
I can see where you’re coming from with your first point regarding LD defence seemingly reframing some of the things she said to fit the definition of infanticide. I’ll be surprised if the jury find her not guilty.

Regarding Graham though, I agree it’s not his fault but imo he definitely had his head in the sand with regards to a few things. I kind of get the impression their marriage was pretty loveless and full of resentment on both parts, rather than him being codependent or emotionally abused. Moo only thought just from what I’ve read from the court updates and reports from their initial interviews. Total respect to your opinion though :)
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Yeah I can agree with head in the sand, I guess we just have different thoughts as to why he acted that way.
It might be futile to speculate further, but what do you make of the fact that the girls preferred him to Lauren?
As a mother and primary caregiver (I didn’t work during my kids’ earliest years and now that they’re in school I work part time) it feels so obvious that the kids prefer me because they spend more time with me. They are also close with their dad but if they wake up at night, hurt themselves, want a snack etc it’s me they come to. And that doesn’t make me special, for any of my mom friends it’s the same unless they have a family set up where the dad stays home.
So I just find it very telling that they preferred Graham- especially when waking up at night which is such a mom thing.
 
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