Autopsy Report, condition of the body, time of death: discuss here

[fruity]

Are we likely to ever see the full autopsy report?

 

[Lovejac]

Absolutely horrific

Poor Cooper

 

[CHERIE.T]

Are we likely to ever see the full autopsy report?

Likely not until it's presented at trial.

 

[K_Z]

Dr. Cyril Wecht's and Dawna Kauffman's comments about probable autopsy findings in the Cooper Harris case, from Tricia's True Crime Radio program 07-24-14. If you don't want to listen to all of the non Cooper Harris case comments, skip ahead to 36:15 on the track. Last few min of the show.

(Cyril Wecht is a world renowned forensic pathologist medical examiner, and attorney. Dawna Kauffman is a true crime author.)

http://www.spreaker.com/user/triciag/072414-the-true-crime-show

 

[K_Z]

Earlier True Crime Radio show with Dr. Cyril Wecht, forensic pathologist. 7-03-14. Discussion about the smell of decomposition.

Skip to 1:08 to begin with Cooper's story and commentary. Move to 5:27 to hear Dr. Wecht's commentary about the smell of decomposition. At 7:45, Dr. Wecht also discusses the possibility of vomiting/ purge fluids from mouth and release from the rectum. He strongly believes that there was a noticeable smell/ odor in the car at 4:30 pm. He says "very, very suspicious case...". Discussion continues to the scratches on Cooper's face and abrasions on the back of the head, the terror of inability to breathe while in restraints.

http://www.spreaker.com/user/triciag/070314-the-true-crime-show

 

[gngr~snap]

Earlier True Crime Radio show with Dr. Cyril Wecht, forensic pathologist. 7-03-14. Discussion about the smell of decomposition.

Skip to 1:08 to begin with Cooper's story and commentary. Move to 5:27 to hear Dr. Wecht's commentary about the smell of decomposition. At 7:45, Dr. Wecht also discusses the possibility of vomiting/ purge fluids from mouth and release from the rectum. He strongly believes that there was a noticeable smell/ odor in the car at 4:30 pm. He says "very, very suspicious case...". Discussion continues to the scratches on Cooper's face and abrasions on the back of the head, the terror of inability to breathe while in restraints.

http://www.spreaker.com/user/triciag/070314-the-true-crime-show

I thought they said something about vomit and purge. I hope he haunts his daddy and Ross never forgets how "peaceful" he looked with his eyes wide open and his corneas clouded over and his mouth wide open his little body, in complete rigors.
I honestly think being buried alive would be an easier death!

I feel so sorry for that jury, the pictures are gonna be heartbreaking, but I don't think they will let him walk.

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[MyBelle]

Earlier True Crime Radio show with Dr. Cyril Wecht, forensic pathologist. 7-03-14. Discussion about the smell of decomposition.

Skip to 1:08 to begin with Cooper's story and commentary. Move to 5:27 to hear Dr. Wecht's commentary about the smell of decomposition. At 7:45, Dr. Wecht also discusses the possibility of vomiting/ purge fluids from mouth and release from the rectum. He strongly believes that there was a noticeable smell/ odor in the car at 4:30 pm. He says "very, very suspicious case...". Discussion continues to the scratches on Cooper's face and abrasions on the back of the head, the terror of inability to breathe while in restraints.

http://www.spreaker.com/user/triciag/070314-the-true-crime-show

K_Z, thanks, I believe the smell is why Harris pulled over. Could you please summarize the comments? I'm without speakers. And do you know if the tox screen of Cooper included Benedryl? Thanks.

 

[SStarr33]

K_Z, thanks, I believe the smell is why Harris pulled over. Could you please summarize the comments? I'm without speakers. And do you know if the tox screen of Cooper included Benedryl? Thanks.

He thinks there might have been a smell, but it might not be "particularly pungent".

The tox screen was neg.

 

[gngr~snap]

He thinks there might have been a smell, but it might not be "particularly pungent".

The tox screen was neg.

This looks exactly like the results I was used to seeing when I worked in the pediatric office.
We did test for benedryl/diphenhydramine at autopsy.

If I am not mistaken, they use vitreous fluid now more often than blood or urine.
I would think they check for it still because benedryl is known to potentiate many drugs

http://www.stevemiller4lasvegas.com/BufToxPg1.jpg

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1966150-overview#aw2aab6b4



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[K_Z]

For forensic toxicology testing, a number of bodily sources are tested for drugs. These include examination of stomach contents (which may remain even if the victim vomited), heart blood, peripheral blood (femoral vein), urine (often enough is still present in the bladder/ ureters even if the victim voided), and vitreous fluid of the eyeball. For really chronic poisonings (arsenic comes to mind), some substances can also be tested by taking hair samples (usually pubic hair, not head hair, BTW).

Initially, the screens aren't looking for specific drugs (Benadryl/ diphenhydramine mentioned above, which is an antihistamine with sedative effects). Drug categories screened for include broad categories of benzodiazepines, opioids, amphetamines, and cannabinoids, as well as some others-- all of the specific drugs in those categories share similar chemical signatures and metabolic pathways.

The vitreous, by the way, demonstrates drug concentrations over time that have diffused into the eye fluids-- the vitreous humor is not a vascular compartment (receiving blood flow). It's not as useful for acute poisonings. For example, Michael Jackson's vitreous humor showed very high concentrations of propofol component molecules, adding to the evidence and testimony that he had been receiving intravenous propofol in very high amounts, regularly over time. His body was literally "soaked" in propofol.

If the Medical Examiner says Cooper's tox was negative, I'm going to believe that.

With the evidence of the scratches to the face and the head abrasions, as well as the physical appearance of the body (eyes partially open, tongue protruding), all of that point to a child that was not even slightly sedated. Sadly, everything points to this child being fully conscious and suffering terribly as he died.

This is a pretty good article.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/features/the-truth-about-toxicology-tests?page=2

''The first thing we would do is a basic screen for drugs in the urine and in the blood," Magnani says. The search would be for drugs such as opiates, amphetamines, marijuana, alcohol, and barbiturates, she says.

The basic toxicology screen typically uses an immunoassay, Robin says. This type of test looks for drugs in the blood using specific antibodies that detect various classes of drugs.

If something shows up, a more sophisticated test is done, using techniques such as mass spectrometry, which can identify chemicals in substances by their mass and charge.

"These confirmatory methods are actually more sensitive," Robin says. "You can find lower quantities [of the substance]."

The more sophisticated tests can tell experts the exact concentration of the drug or other substance, says Hall, who is also clinical assistant professor of public health at Weatherford College in Weatherford, Texas.

Experts also can determine if two drugs found together may have had a synergistic effect -- which happens when two drugs similar in their actions produce an exaggerated effect when taken together. It's akin to ''one plus one equals five," Robins says.

If joypath comes by, perhaps she would be willing to comment more on toxicology testing.

 

[gngr~snap]

This child was left longer than Cooper, but the ME describes what he found.

"Land, who was asked to identify multiple photographs of the child's body, said, "I noticed that the body was breaking down at a much faster rate than usual due to extensive decomposition. The body was discolored and almost in a mummified state."

Land said the infant, whose eyes were sunken and fingertips blackened, died while lying on her back.

He said the extreme heat inside the room prevented the child's body temperature from regulating. Land said the girl, whose hair was matted, had a woolen blanket in the crib and was wearing sweat pants, a long-sleeve shirt and a urine-saturated diaper.
http://m.newsitem.com/news/eight-te...sunbury-infant-s-hyperthermia-death-1.1540595
Leisenring, who investigated the death, said an odor of decomposition was very prevalent when he arrived at the Sunbury home at 8:16 a.m. Oct. 16, 2010. He told the court the infant had been dead for a while.

The deputy coroner, who interviewed Loner and Dreese at the home, pronounced Anela dead at 8:30 a.m.

Stancavage, who was the first medical personnel on scene, described the poor condition of the child's body, which included "blood pulls" and curled black fingers.

What the heck are "blood pulls" ?
Ahh.. I think maybe livor mortis?
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[gngr~snap]

"An autopsy found that*she had third-degree burns to her legs and arms, evidence of extreme heat exposure to the sun. The temperature inside the car was recorded at 119 degrees."

http://www.wthr.com/story/18976399/questions-surround-greenfield-babys-death

The car that Cooper was in was said to be
130° ? I wonder if he had burns as well?

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[Lovejac]

"An autopsy found that*she had third-degree burns to her legs and arms, evidence of extreme heat exposure to the sun. The temperature inside the car was recorded at 119 degrees."

http://www.wthr.com/story/18976399/questions-surround-greenfield-babys-death

The car that Cooper was in was said to be
130° ? I wonder if he had burns as well?

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Or maybe the sun shining through the windows if they weren't tinted?

Gruesome to imagine no matter how it happened

 

[gngr~snap]

Or maybe the sun shining through the windows if they weren't tinted?

Gruesome to imagine no matter how it happened

Oh yes. The windows were tinted too.

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[Salem]

This isn't about the ME. Let's move along please.

Salem

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I would say it happened prior to desth, which would also show bruising. IMO it ws from him banging his head/seizure activity.
I thought I read no post mortem injuries?

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I'm surprised that there was no bruising on his chest and shoulders from the seat belts and him trying to get loose. If he was scratching his face and banging his head , I'm sure he'd try to get out of them.

 

[gngr~snap]

I'm surprised that there was no bruising on his chest and shoulders from the seat belts and him trying to get loose. If he was scratching his face and banging his head , I'm sure he'd try to get out of them.

I feel certain there would be. This was discussed with Dr. Wecht and Dawna (I forget jer last name)
She said there would be injuries from struggling.
When it gets to the point they are talking autolysis, putrefication, skin slippage, blistering of the skin, bleeding organs, bleeding into the lungs...
Otnis very likely his entire body was "bruised looking"
On another post I linked to there is a picture of a 9 yr old boy that died of hyperthermia along with his 3 yr old sister. I have no way of knowing how long he was in there but temps reached 122° inside the car it has been said the car was between 130°-140° that Cooper was in. **GRAPHIC**
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10810328
I would expect similar findings, keeping in mind Cooper was younger and would experience hyperthermia sooner.

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[K_Z]

I'm surprised that there was no bruising on his chest and shoulders from the seat belts and him trying to get loose. If he was scratching his face and banging his head , I'm sure he'd try to get out of them.

I feel certain there would be. This was discussed with Dr. Wecht and Dawna (I forget jer last name)
She said there would be injuries from struggling.
When it gets to the point they are talking autolysis, putrefication, skin slippage, blistering of the skin, bleeding organs, bleeding into the lungs...
Otnis very likely his entire body was "bruised looking"
On another post I linked to there is a picture of a 9 yr old boy that died of hyperthermia along with his 3 yr old sister. I have no way of knowing how long he was in there but temps reached 122° inside the car it has been said the car was between 130°-140° that Cooper was in. **GRAPHIC**
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10810328
I would expect similar findings, keeping in mind Cooper was younger and would experience hyperthermia sooner.

All posts are MOO

I'm a little confused-- is there some new source that says there was "no" bruising or marking from the car seat straps? Or a source that says there WAS bruising or marking? Are we speculating one way or the other, or has more info from the autopsy report been given?

I would expect marking from the tight straps, too, but am just wondering if there is any new official info from the AR?

 

[gngr~snap]

I'm a little confused-- is there some new source that says there was "no" bruising or marking from the car seat straps? Or a source that says there WAS bruising or marking? Are we speculating one way or the other, or has more info from the autopsy report been given?

I would expect marking from the tight straps, too, but am just wondering if there is any new official info from the AR?

No new info. It's based on what Dawna said last week about injuries from Cooper struggling against the straps and the fact that Cooper was in the car so long. No question there was bruising found as a struggle would injure the tissue.
WE dont know, would he only have bruising from the straps on the shoulders and chest/abdomen or all over (generalized) from the muscles breaking down and the liver and stomach bleeding ?

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[CHERIE.T]

I'm surprised that there was no bruising on his chest and shoulders from the seat belts and him trying to get loose. If he was scratching his face and banging his head , I'm sure he'd try to get out of them.

The autopsy report won't be released until trial, iirc, so we wont know anything until then.