Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #16

[otto]

Rudy Guede had a serious problem. Clear physical evidence linked him to the murdered victim.

The stories he told to try and explain the evidence give us a clue as to what really happened. Rudy claimed to have been on toilet when a stranger bust through the door, that he fought with the stranger in the kitchen. The fight probably did start in that area, but it was with Meredith. She came home while Rudy was using the toilet. He didn't flush to avoid alerting Meredith to his presence, then tried to sneak out the front door. What Rudy didn't know is that the latch on that door was broken. Meredith would have locked the deadbolt to keep it from blowing open.

Rudy looks for another way out, but runs into Meredith. A short but brutal fight follows, moving into her bedroom. Rudy pulls out a knife and kills the poor girl.

Rudy has blood on his pants and other clothing, his hands are a mess. He goes into the small bathroom to clean up. He takes his shoes off and attempts to rinse the blood from his pants. The footprint on the bath at is from the diluted blood flowing down his leg. Rudy puts his shoes back on and returns to the murder room. He needs Meredith's keys to open the front door. He takes her money, credit card, cell phone and a sweatshirt to cover his bloody shirt. While doing so, he steps in the pooling blood. He locks the bedroom door on his way out, but doesn't lock the front door. He does not want to be seen standing outside the cottage fumbling with keys.

Rudy heads home by a route outside the city walls. Avoiding the basketball courts were he is likely to encounter people that know him. He tries the side gate near his home, but finds it locked. He continues on the path to the next gate, when one of the cell phones gets an incoming message. Realizing the phones link him directly to the dead girl, Rudy tosses them over a wall into what looks like a ravine before continuing home.

I recognize the theory about the route taken by Guede as coming straight from the True Justice website. Wasn't it Kermit that produced a powerpoint of that theory?

 

[TorisMom003]

Investigators told Knox that it was important to tell the truth. They questioned her about her recent cell phone activity. Knox introduced Patrick's name. Knox, for whatever reason, then told investigators that she met with her boss at the basketball courts, that they went to the cottage and so on until Patrick murdered Meredith.

Essentially, Knox is blaming investigators for her lies about Patrick. She blames them for forcing her to lie because they told her to tell the truth. She claims that only after 53 hours of torture did she implicate Patrick, but that's another lie.

She did everything she could to blame someone else, but she, alone, is responsible for her words, and no amount of new lies can change that.

So the investigators didn't ask Amanda who Patrick was first? They didn't show her the text between Amanda and Patrick where she said that she would see him later? They didn't bring up his name first? Where is this information coming from? It's a pity that the investigators didn't bother to record this "interview". A lot of our questions would be answered if they had.

MOO

 

[LinasK]

Rudy Guede had a serious problem. Clear physical evidence linked him to the murdered victim.

The stories he told to try and explain the evidence give us a clue as to what really happened. Rudy claimed to have been on toilet when a stranger bust through the door, that he fought with the stranger in the kitchen. The fight probably did start in that area, but it was with Meredith. She came home while Rudy was using the toilet. He didn't flush to avoid alerting Meredith to his presence, then tried to sneak out the front door. What Rudy didn't know is that the latch on that door was broken. Meredith would have locked the deadbolt to keep it from blowing open.

Rudy looks for another way out, but runs into Meredith. A short but brutal fight follows, moving into her bedroom. Rudy pulls out a knife and kills the poor girl.

Rudy has blood on his pants and other clothing, his hands are a mess. He goes into the small bathroom to clean up. He takes his shoes off and attempts to rinse the blood from his pants. The footprint on the bath at is from the diluted blood flowing down his leg. Rudy puts his shoes back on and returns to the murder room. He needs Meredith's keys to open the front door. He takes her money, credit card, cell phone and a sweatshirt to cover his bloody shirt. While doing so, he steps in the pooling blood. He locks the bedroom door on his way out, but doesn't lock the front door. He does not want to be seen standing outside the cottage fumbling with keys.

Rudy heads home by a route outside the city walls. Avoiding the basketball courts were he is likely to encounter people that know him. He tries the side gate near his home, but finds it locked. He continues on the path to the next gate, when one of the cell phones gets an incoming message. Realizing the phones link him directly to the dead girl, Rudy tosses them over a wall into what looks like a ravine before continuing home.

Noone here disputes Rudy's guilt, BUT... he didn't act alone, and the break-in was staged to frame him.

Quoting myself in response.

 

[Amber29]

I thought that the phones pinged in the garden down the road shortly after midnight, when Meredith's father phoned her.

Yes the phones were in Lana's garden after midnight of sure, the tower proved that.

 

[otto]

So the investigators didn't ask Amanda who Patrick was first? They didn't show her the text between Amanda and Patrick where she said that she would see him later? They didn't bring up his name first? Where is this information coming from? It's a pity that the investigators didn't bother to record this "interview". A lot of our questions would be answered if they had.

MOO

The information is in the court transcripts of Knox's testimony. She states in court in response to the prosecutor that she alone introduced Patrick's name to the discussion. I took the time to find the quotes and link them weeks ago, but there was apparently some doubt as to whether that could be posted here, so that information was deleted. As I said, I will not take the time to quote and link it again, but anyone that is interested can look at Knox's testimony and find the information.

 

[TorisMom003]

Quoting myself in response.

Unfortunately we only have the police and courts opinion that the break in was staged. I have yet to see any proof that the window sill was dusted for prints. Perhaps if it had been then the prints would have turned the investigators to the person that actually broke the window and entered the cottage that way. Instead of following the evidence, a decision was made that it was staged. When the investigators relied on that decision instead of following through with dusting for prints to see who the culprit was, they were then stuck with a theory of a "staged break in" instead of actually proving one way or the other for a fact about a "staged break in".

MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

Yes the phones were in Lana's garden after midnight of sure, the tower proved that.

How long before midnight were the phones there?

 

[aa9511]

If Meredith died before 9:30 pm, cell phones are irrelevant. The evidence shows a video being started at 9:24 pm at Raffele's apartment.

The assumption that only someone planning a murder would turn off their cell phone is rather strange. I turned mine off yesterday when I walked into the library. Does that make me a considerate person or a diabolical criminal?

What do you mean, if Meredith died before 9:30pm, cell phones irrelevant? The cell phones were turned off at 8:42pm. Actually, that actually works in better with your own theory of TOD. If evidence shows a video starting at 9:24, and it is only about 5 minute walk to the apartment from RS's house....Meredith arrives around 9, does that not give them 15 minutes to accidentally stab her? I would think that could be done in 15 minutes. If it was accidental stab, they do overkill, run out, they come back later and do the rest of the staging. I include sexual assault with the staging.

They turn on Naruto at 9:24 pm b/c they need it for their alibi. Since they cannot turn on their cell phones, as I explained in my last post, due to the time cell phones would be off would be exactly the time Meredith was killed. They had to leave their cell phones off. They cannot see anyone to establish alibi b/c they have to clean themselves off, then figure out a plan, and then go back and do the staging/cleaning up all night.

I never assumed they planned a murder. Did I say that? I said that they planned a prank. Thos are two very different things. I never said they turned off their cell phones to commit the murder. I said they turned off their cell phones for the prank.

JMO

 

[Footwarrior]

If only there were a real trace of him in that bathroom. There is zero evidence of him attempting to clean himself up in it.
Instead we have evidence Amanda did.

We have evidence that Amanda had used the small bathroom. Considering that it is the bathroom she shared with the victim, that is as expected.

Swab the surfaces in your bathroom and you will find your DNA along with DNA from anyone who routinely uses that bathroom.

Rudy didn't scrub himself in that bathroom, he just rinsed the blood off his pants. Rudy even admits to using the small bathroom to cleanup after Meredith died. He probably left some DNA on the towels that he left in Meredith's room, but once again the ace Perugia team screwed up. They stored the damp towels in plastic bags. When they retrieved them to do DNA tests, they were covered with mold.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Noone here disputes Rudy's guilt, BUT... he didn't act alone, and the break-in was staged to frame him. I don't think it was a prank, I think Amanda was jealous of Meredith and made a conscious decision to kill/have Meredith killed out of jealousy.

:seeya:

BBM: I agree ...

I lean more towards this than a "prank" because what a "coincidence" that the other two flatmates, Laura and Filomina, were both away for the night ... AND ... the 4 college males that lived downstairs in the cottage were away for the night as well because of the Holiday ...

Wow ... just a "coincidence" ...

:twocents:

 

[aa9511]

Turning the ringers off, while leaving the cell phones at the apartment would have worked if AK and RS left the apartment to go and kill (or prank) Meredith. No need to actually turn the cell phones off completely unless they truly didn't want to be disturbed. Even a phone with the ringer off is going to vibrate and gain attention. IMO to much is being placed on not only the cell phones of AK and RS but also their behavior after Meredith was found. It appears that since the other, physical, evidence is so weak that much more importance is placed on things that simply do not point towards actual guilt.

MOO

In my theory, they certainly did not plan on killing Meredith when they left the house.

So why would they leave their cell phones at home?

Young people don't leave their cell phones at home. They are an extra part of their body, like a finger or a toe.

What they thought was, we are going to do this prank - fun, fun!! Meredith is going to laugh after this is all over. We'll all be laughing. They then were probably going to go out and do other things. Maybe go to a cafe. Maybe go eat somewhere. Maybe hang out at the Piazza. Maybe go to a club. Maybe even go to Le Chic just to hang out and chat with Patrick since Amanda didn't have to go to work.

So why would they leave their cell phones at home?

In my theory, they didn't know this tragedy was going to happen.

I never said that I am placing all my eggs in the cell phone basket. Simply because we can only discuss one thing at a time, that's why it seems like I am suddenly placing all importance on cell phones. This is just one piece of evidence, out of many. It seems like every time we discuss something, and we can only discuss one thing at a time, suddenly people say we think they're guilty because of that one thing.

It is part of the big picture. IMO.

 

[otto]

What do you mean, if Meredith died before 9:30pm, cell phones irrelevant? The cell phones were turned off at 8:42pm. Actually, that actually works in better with your own theory of TOD. If evidence shows a video starting at 9:24, and it is only about 5 minute walk to the apartment from RS's house....Meredith arrives around 9, does that not give them 15 minutes to accidentally stab her? I would think that could be done in 15 minutes. If it was accidental stab, they do overkill, run out, they come back later and do the rest of the staging. I include sexual assault with the staging.

They turn on Naruto at 9:24 pm b/c they need it for their alibi. Since they cannot turn on their cell phones, as I explained in my last post, due to the time cell phones would be off would be exactly the time Meredith was killed. They had to leave their cell phones off. They cannot see anyone to establish alibi b/c they have to clean themselves off, then figure out a plan, and then go back and do the staging/cleaning up all night.

I never assumed they planned a murder. Did I say that? I said that they planned a prank. Thos are two very different things. I never said they turned off their cell phones to commit the murder. I said they turned off their cell phones for the prank.

JMO

Massei Report: Page 302, 304

Of all the interactions with the computer on the night in question, the last possible human interaction on Nov 1 occurred at 9:10PM and the next definite human interaction occurred on Nov 2 at 5:32AM (p302). The 9:10PM interaction is also described as possibly the movie ending without human interaction (p304). Thererfore, it is unknown when Knox and Sollecito left his apartment, as the movie ended with, or without, human interaction with the computer. That is the last record of Sollecito doing something with the computer, although there were something like 122 interactions that were initiated by the computer.

 

[aa9511]

Exactly! They didn't want to be disturbed because these young lovers weren't making love, they were busy murdering Meredith and cleaning up.

And actually, nowadays, cell phones are quite the accessory in having sex amongst young people. Turning on music, taking pictures, taking video. I'm sorry, I'm just telling it like it is. They do the opposite - they use it, rather than shutting it off.

 

[Footwarrior]

The sign that someone has been sucked into a conspiracy theory is how they keep expanding the theory and adding complexity. Absence of evidence is taken as evidence of a cover up. Opposing views are dismissed as being part of the grand conspiracy. Evidence pointing elsewhere is assumed to be faked. No leap of logic stands in the way of preserving the grand conspiracy theory.

 

[aa9511]

Considering there is no body found in the library. You'd have no reason to be suspected of a crime.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, I agree.

 

[Footwarrior]

Massei Report: Page 302, 304

Of all the interactions with the computer on the night in question, the last possible human interaction on Nov 1 occurred at 9:10PM and the next definite human interaction occurred on Nov 2 at 5:32AM (p302). The 9:10PM interaction is also described as possibly the movie ending without human interaction (p304). Thererfore, it is unknown when Knox and Sollecito left his apartment, as the movie ended with, or without, human interaction with the computer. That is the last record of Sollecito doing something with the computer, although there were something like 122 interactions that were initiated by the computer.

The Perugia investigators used a program called Encase to examine Raffaele's computer. Encase looks at the Unix layers in the system, but not at the Finder metadata specific to the Macintosh OSX system.

Encase would have noticed the Naruto file being opened if it was the last time that video was watched. Unfortunately, the Perugia police watched that video several days later after Raffaele had already been arrested.

At least they didn't destroy the hard drive like they did when they tried to examine Raffaele's desktop system and the computers belonging to Meredith and Amanda. Filomena's system may have suffered the same fate if she had not taken it from the crime scene.

 

[aa9511]

It's the ever evolving motive. If the first one doesn't make sense or is proven to be incorrect, then move on to the next. That one also is shot down? Then go on to the next one in line. Repeat this for a few more motives. Finally Amanda admits to playing a prank with help on someone. Nothing was stolen, nothing was broken, no one was killed or injured BUT it doesn't matter. We finally have a motive that "fits". Never mind the fact that the one that killed Meredith has a history of breaking and entering, using knives, tried to attack someone when his exit was blocked and was a problem with/for women. That person that had his DNA, fingerprints, footprints at the scene of the crime was just an innocent bystander in the crime. Even though he lied about why he was there that night, smearing Meredith's name and reputation in the process.

Of course the "prank gone bad" motive works. It just doesn't make any sense that a breaking and entering went bad. Nope, not at all.
:banghead:

MOO

bbm

It does make sense that a burglary could go bad. It's just that it doesn't fit the evidence in this case, IMO.

It's precisely because a burglary gone bad is believable that someone would stage it to look like that. THis is not the first case where a burglary has been staged. Perps do it for a reason - that reason is because it's believable.

But the mistake perps make is that they stage it from a layperson's persepective, they don't stage it the way investigators view a crime scene. They don't know what kinds of things investigators look for. That's why perps make mistakes during staging - a posted an article about it in the last thread.

 

[otto]

The sign that someone has been sucked into a conspiracy theory is how they keep expanding the theory and adding complexity. Absence of evidence is taken as evidence of a cover up. Opposing views are dismissed as being part of the grand conspiracy. Evidence pointing elsewhere is assumed to be faked. No leap of logic stands in the way of preserving the grand conspiracy theory.

Steve Moore was interviewed by CNN and he was very clear in stating that the reason that Knox and Sollecito were prosecuted was to cover up the fact that Guede was a police informant that committed murder. Investigators didn't want anyone to know that their police informant committed murder, so they prosecuted Knox and Sollecito too. I have no idea how Moore arrived at this belief, but he does state that it is a conspiracy between every level of the justice system, from Postal Police to the Supreme Court. (links posted last week)

When I read that, based on no factual evidence, there is a theory that Guede went into the bathroom after the murder to wash his clothes, and that he is therefore responsible for the print on the bathmat, I have to wonder if the theory is from the same source. There is no evidence that Guede walked to the bathroom. There is no evidence that he was in the bathroom. There is no evidence that he washed his pants. There is no logical reason to believe that water dripping down a leg will produce the perfect print of a foot. It strikes me as a story made out of thin air, similar to Moore's conspiracy theory.

The only connection that I can find to facts is that Guede wrote in his diary that his pants were wet, so he pulled his sweatshirt down to cover that bloody spot. Surely he didn't pull his sweatshirt down to the bottom of his pant leg, so it's not a logical foundation for concluding that Guede washed his pants in the bathroom. Instead, it seems more logical that his pants were wet from blood and that this spot was close enough to his waist that it could be covered by pulling his sweatshirt down.

 

[aa9511]

It looks like Andrea Vogt agrees with my opinion that US news is about ratings rather than truth.

"Hours after their articles hit the newsstands, lawyers for one of those convicted (Raffaele Sollecito) pounce on the judge for speaking out “inappropriately” and call for disciplinary action.

The man actually convicted for murder, meanwhile, is invited to appear on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 where, like Amanda Knox on Good Morning America, he is treated like a celebrity. Just as the ABC anchor had squeezed Amanda’s hand supportively, Anderson Cooper tells Sollecito: “I appreciate you talking to us, and I'm sorry it's under these circumstances.”

I bet the Kercher family is sorry it is under these circumstances, too. ...

So where is the line between glorifying perpetrators and breaking a lance in their favour after conviction in a foreign country? Or does it all come down to ratings, ratings ratings?"

http://www.theweek.co.uk/europe/ama...to-justice-revisited-prime-time#ixzz2sTaOzN1F

Ratings = Advertisements=Money=Power - cha-ching, cha-ching.

 

[Footwarrior]

Yes the phones were in Lana's garden after midnight of sure, the tower proved that.

The 10:13 connection came from a tower with good coverage of the park outside the city walls and across the street from the villa garden where the phones were found the next day. The path in that park goes to a minor gate through the city walls that is about a half block from Rudy's place. From there, it goes to the road, directly across the street from where the phones were found.

The timing on this gives us another hint. The police responded to the prank bomb threat phone call at the villa at roughly 15 minutes after 10. Rudy probably saw or heard the police right about the same time as that connection came in.