Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #1

[gngr~snap]

The Guardian has a reporter at the scene now.

'For miles around, you can see them, strips of white cotton attached to wooden stakes in the fields of eastern Ukraine. Each stake marks a victim from flight MH17, or at least a body part. There are a lot of stakes.'

'It was not just the human passengers that died. An unlikely menagerie of dead pets lay strewn across the scene in the grass, bright blue and yellow macaws, a cockatoo, a random giant St Bernard dog curled peacefully where he fell.'

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/ukraine-plane-crash-site-mh17

No! They were on the plane? Those people don't have those pets around do they? Aw man...

All posts are MOO.

 

[newone]

Imagine being a bird shut in a cage and falling to your death, unable to fly. Sad. And the St Bernard.

yessssss!!! as an lover of birds.....grrrrrrr and that poor dog.... not good

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Video at link. This situation is an utter disgrace. The poor families.

'Grabove, Ukraine (CNN) -- Debris from Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 lay splayed for miles across silent rural fields in eastern Ukraine on Saturday. Two days after the jet crashed, some bodies remained strapped in seat belts -- wearing inflight headphones.
Conspicuously missing at the crash site near Torez were international forensic workers needed to secure and sort the wreckage, and a recovery crew to identify and remove with dignity the bodies of the 298 people who were on board MH17.'

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/19/w...sia-airlines-scene-story/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I was listening to a reporter on BBC Radio 5 talking about being at the scene - similar albeit more graphic comments about the bodies. Earlier in the discussion someone said how awful it was people taking photos, but they could turn out to be invaluable for identification if bodies are already decomposing. The reporter said something about some of the people "guarding" being drunk. :facepalm:

 

[newone]

I was listening to a reporter on BBC Radio 5 talking about being at the scene - similar albeit more graphic comments about the bodies. Earlier in the discussion someone said how awful it was people taking photos, but they could turn out to be invaluable for identification if bodies are already decomposing. The reporter said something about some of the people "guarding" being drunk. :facepalm:

respectfully, almost a prerequisite to being able to guard that crime scene JMHO

 

[gngr~snap]

[/B]

respectfully, almost a prerequisite to being able to guard that crime scene JMHO

YES! NO WAY I could do it sober. Not even sure I could do it drunk. I might have to pack my nose. Even then... Ick.
I am so sorry people!
I hope you find your way home and RIP soon.

All posts are MOO.

 

[SouthAussie]

I have a very unsettling feeling that the victims may end up being buried in a mass grave in the area. :cry:

They are just not letting us in, and it must be getting quite unhealthy for those living in the area. This is just dragging on and on ... in the heat of summer.

 

[newone]

YES! NO WAY I could do it sober. Not even sure I could do it drunk. I might have to pack my nose. Even then... Ick.
I am so sorry people!
I hope you find your way home and RIP soon.

All posts are MOO.

Aside from the political rhetoric that's going on now I have to believe that common people are doing the right thing.....

 

[SouthAussie]

Aside from the political rhetoric that's going on now I have to believe that common people are doing the right thing.....

I agree, they will be doing whatever they can I think. Depending on what the rebels are allowing them to do.

 

[gngr~snap]

I have a very unsettling feeling that the victims may end up being buried in a mass grave in the area. :cry:

They are just not letting us in, and it must be getting quite unhealthy for those living in the area. This is just dragging on and on ... in the heat of summer.

Thank you, I couldn't type it.
That is why I am having a really bad feeling. 34 left today, I don't feel like they will be found.
It's going to get serious, unless over half were cremated in the crash and I won't believe they were.

 

[2rose]

Here is a recent statement from Malaysia Airlines about the MH17 flight plan ...

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html

Friday, July 18, 08:20 PM GMT +0800 Media Statement 4 : MH17 Incident

Media Statement 4: MH17 Incident

1. Flight plan

MH17’s flight plan was approved by Eurocontrol, who are solely responsible for determining civil aircraft flight paths over European airspace. Eurocontrol is the air navigation service provider for Europe and is governed under ICAO rules.

The route over Ukrainian airspace where the incident occurred is commonly used for Europe to Asia flights. A flight from a different carrier was on the same route at the time of the MH17 incident, as were a number of other flights from other carriers in the days and weeks before. Eurocontrol maintains records of all flights across European airspace, including those across Ukraine.

In April, the International Civil Aviation Organization identified an area over the Crimean peninsula as risky. At no point did MH17 fly into, or request to fly into, this area. At all times, MH17 was in airspace approved by the ICAO.

2. Altitude

MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000ft throughout Ukrainian airspace. This is close to the ‘optimum’ altitude.

However, an aircraft’s altitude in flight is determined by air traffic control on the ground. Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000ft.

 

[gngr~snap]

Aside from the political rhetoric that's going on now I have to believe that common people are doing the right thing.....

I do. 2 still had bodies in their homes. Bless them.

 

[newone]

I agree, they will be doing whatever they can I think. Depending on what the rebels are allowing them to do.

according to the video link that Zwiebel provided they are planting white flags wherever they find remains....and Ukraine does have people on the scene doing what they can

 

[Steely Dan]

personally...I would hope that they zoomed the same path of the MH17 very very speedily and took lots and lots of photos -- do you really think that anyone would have had the gonies to knock the planes out of the sky at this point?

They can probably get better images from satellites. Sending planes could be construed as an act of aggression by the US.

Diplomacy is a very tricky game. IMO, it's best, in a situation like this, to put economic penalties on a country. If they ignore those, you keep upping the ante until it becomes obvious Putin isn't going to stop any time soon. I'm not saying you, it just seems like the most vocal part of country thinks that you shoot first and ask questions later. If you want your country in a never ending cycle of wars that's a great idea.

Unfortunately, the countries of the world will have to start squeezing Russia so tightly that Putin's high popularity ratings begin to erode quickly, due to great suffering by the people, and either Putin is ousted by his Federation Council or a civil war begins and the US and other countries can help out the rebels. Hopefully, nobody will join Russia because they hate the US too. That would make it a world war again.

I think Obama should call an emergency meeting of the UN and suggest UN Peace Keeping forces be sent to the area to make sure everybody behaves like they should. If the separatists attack the UN forces it's going to make a case for war against Putin stronger.

If I were Obama and I saw a reformer waiting in the wings to take over Russia I'd have the CIA assassinate Putin if possible. JMO

Geez, I just don't know. If I was a rescuer would I risk it to go there? It's so tense. I would be very afraid.
That said, it's too late already. Too hot, too wet and when these goons decide it is out of their control, they will call for help and leave the premises or, just vacate. At any rate it is going to get so much worse. Helpers should have been sent a day ago and arriving NOW.

All posts are MOO.

The rebels are making this so much worse for Russia. The focus on Russia's oversight of the rebels is continually in the news now. The Presidents comments today are the strongest I've heard against a major power in my lifetime. I was in my mom's belly during the Cuban missile crisis. What I know about it in history is the US stood firm and Khrushchev backed down.

We were on the brink of nuclear war back then and I hope things aren't that serious anymore, I hope nobody is crazy enough to use a nuke. The Russians have so many nuclear weapons they could destroy all of the United states if they wanted to. We have enough to destroy them too. So it might be Putin making an all out assault with his nukes and us responding with our nukes and whoever's left on the planet after the nuclear winter will rebuild society.

I don't think Putin's vocabulary includes retreat or loss. I said it before and I'm saying it again. Putin = Hitler. All that's different so far is no Kristallnacht, yet, the lack of concentration camps and a night of long knives. Instead of literally killing his opposition he's quieted them by rigging elections. This guy is very unstable, and is the scariest leader I've seen since I've been alive. It appears he wants to take back all the countries in the former Soviet Union. If he does that he'll start moving on other countries. JMO

If Putin does start death camps they'll probably start out with homosexuals. JMO

 

[newone]

They can probably get better images from satellites. Sending planes could be construed as an act of aggression by the US.

Diplomacy is a very tricky game. IMO, it's best, in a situation like this, to put economic penalties on a country. If they ignore those, you keep upping the ante until it becomes obvious Putin isn't going to stop any time soon. I'm not saying you, it just seems like the most vocal part of country thinks that you shoot first and ask questions later. If you want your country in a never ending cycle of wars that's a great idea.

Unfortunately, the countries of the world will have to start squeezing Russia so tightly that Putin's high popularity ratings begin to erode quickly, due to great suffering by the people, and either Putin is ousted by his Federation Council or a civil war begins and the US and other countries can help out the rebels. Hopefully, nobody will join Russia because they hate the US too. That would make it a world war again.

I think Obama should call an emergency meeting of the UN and suggest UN Peace Keeping forces be sent to the area to make sure everybody behaves like they should. If the separatists attack the UN forces it's going to make a case for war against Putin stronger.

If I were Obama and I saw a reformer waiting in the wings to take over Russia I'd have the CIA assassinate Putin if possible. JMO



The rebels are making this so much worse for Russia. The focus on Russia's oversight of the rebels is continually in the news now. The Presidents comments today are the strongest I've heard against a major power in my lifetime. I was in my mom's belly during the Cuban missile crisis. What I know about it in history is the US stood firm and Khrushchev backed down.

We were on the brink of nuclear war back then and I hope things aren't that serious anymore, I hope nobody is crazy enough to use a nuke. The Russians have so many nuclear weapons they could destroy all of the United states if they wanted to. We have enough to destroy them too. So it might be Putin making an all out assault with his nukes and us responding with our nukes and whoever's left on the planet after the nuclear winter will rebuild society.

I don't think Putin's vocabulary includes retreat or loss. I said it before and I'm saying it again. Putin = Hitler. All that's different so far is no Kristallnacht, yet, the lack of concentration camps and a night of long knives. Instead of literally killing his opposition he's quieted them by rigging elections. This guy is very unstable, and is the scariest leader I've seen since I've been alive. It appears he wants to take back all the countries in the former Soviet Union. If he does that he'll start moving on other countries. JMO

If Putin does start death camps they'll probably start out with homosexuals. JMO

I'm older than you ((aka older than dirt in some people's minds)) .... the worst thing that can happen right now is to have every world leader shooting from the hip

clearly this is a nasty nasty situation and hopefully there will be one clear head that will prevail to clean it up IF we can just focus (key word there) on the humanitarian effort to deal with MH17

I believe the world needs to focus on the families NOT the politics. Too easy to get suckered into a fight no one wants.

 

[Brightbird]

The number of victims from my state, Victoria, just increased to 18 The number from Australia is now 36. Eight are foreign residents, including a family of five who were Dutch-Australian. The number of delegates on their way to the Aids conference has been revised down to six.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/24493439/mh17-tragedy-names-of-passengers-and-crew-emerge/

 

[drsleuth]

Yes, why is Abbott voicing such strong words against Russia? He started it yesterday and it didn't seem in keeping with the more measured tone of the other world leaders. Julie Bishop was exasperated that she couldn't speak to anyone in the Russian Foreign Ministry. Um, I would suggest that's because our government was the pointing the finger at them. We are not a big or powerful country. I don't like that Abbott is making these remarks on the world stage on our behalf.

I agree. Scary stuff..........

 

[newone]

I agree. Scary stuff..........

I' m guessing you are Aussie....and truthfully I respect the profile that Australians have worldwide. This is not the time for ANY world leader to posturing politically but rather a humanitarian approach would better serve the victims of this tragedy. ((JMHO)) love Australians by the way

 

[Trident]

A compound tragedy -- one that defiles all things human and decent.

May the good Lord bless the souls of the lost, and the wounded spirits of their loved ones.



:moo: :moo: :moo: :moo:

This horrific lose of life, the loss of life in Aghanistan, Syria, Palestine, and God knows how many other places becomes more than the mind can bear.

Slaughter of the Innocents.

MOO

 

[Steely Dan]

I'm older than you ((aka older than dirt in some people's minds)) .... the worst thing that can happen right now is to have every world leader shooting from the hip

clearly this is a nasty nasty situation and hopefully there will be one clear head that will prevail to clean it up IF we can just focus (key word there) on the humanitarian effort to deal with MH17

I believe the world needs to focus on the families NOT the politics. Too easy to get suckered into a fight no one wants.

Ok, ok. Are you saying that anyone older than me must be older than dirt? :snooty: I am not amused. :snooty:

Unfortunately, other countries would be silly not to take advantage of the political gains to be made here. I said earlier in this thread that this may turn out to be Putin's worst mistake. I don't think he wanted to down a civilian airliner, I do believe he gave the order to fire on another Ukrainian aircraft. Mistaken identity caused this. However, countries of the world have to start calling Putin out on his funding the rebels and supplying them with serious weaponry.

This is the perfect thing to use to call Putin out. With all due respect to the families of the victims, this may be a very good thing for the rest of the world. We may be able to stop Putin now before he actually managed to go to war with Ukraine. It seems his ordering the rebels to fire on a second Ukrainian plane this week was the beginning of starting a situation that would eventually have to lead to war.

This plane crash exposes Putin's grip on the rebels. It exposes his arming the rebels with serious weaponry and his effort to start a war with Ukraine. The almost 300 lives lost may end up saving thousands more in the long run. I hope so. I hope their deaths mean more to history than tragedy. JMO

 

[newone]

Ok, ok. Are you saying that anyone older than me must be older than dirt? :snooty: I am not amused. :snooty:

Unfortunately, other countries would be silly not to take advantage of the political gains to be made here. I said earlier in this thread that this may turn out to be Putin's worst mistake. I don't think he wanted to down a civilian airliner, I do believe he gave the order to fire on another Ukrainian aircraft. Mistaken identity caused this. However, countries of the world have to start calling Putin out on his funding the rebels and supplying them with serious weaponry.

This is the perfect thing to use to call Putin out. With all due respect to the families of the victims, this may be a very good thing for the rest of the world. We may be able to stop Putin now before he actually managed to go to war with Ukraine. It seems his ordering the rebels to fire on a second Ukrainian plane this week was the beginning of starting a situation that would eventually have to lead to war.

This plane crash exposes Putin's grip on the rebels. It exposes his arming the rebels with serious weaponry and his effort to start a war with Ukraine. The almost 300 lives lost may end up saving thousands more in the long run. I hope so. I hope their deaths mean more to history than tragedy. JMO

Yes dear Steely you have met older than dirt...... I agree this is an opportunity for good people to confront the bad boy (Putin) by showing up in white hats
but let's outclass him