Post sentencing discussion

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.biography.com/news/athletes-on-trial-for-murder

Heroes to Horrors: Athletes on Trial for Murder

From horrific crimes of passion to a botched hit, take a look at the rap sheets of some pro athletes whose lives have taken a criminal turn.

 

[soozieqtips]

I agree with this completely. In a courtroom environment you would never say "I would have". You either did or did not.

BIB - We generally use "I would have" just after an "If..." or an implied "If..." - which means we're talking about something that didn't happen. "If it had rained, I would have taken shelter... but it didn't rain, so I didn't take shelter!" OP used the phrase a lot, which indicated he was making it up as he went along.

 

[delilah]

This would make those extra shots unlikely, won't it?

If there were less than 13 unspent bullets, one would expect OP to wait for the State to bring it up and then try to explain by claiming that he started with lesser number of bullets to begin with - certainly he should not volunteer this information about starting with a full magazine.

Or is it that by that stage, the DT already knows what are all the evidences that the PT had got, and the number of unspent rounds was not among those - so he could confidently say that he starts with a full magazine?

But is this even possible, Police not having this information on unspent bullets? How sloppy the Police could have been? If this was indeed the case, in my view sloppiness can not be the reason. This is possible only if someone in the Police investigation team was compromised.

BIB - that could quite easily have been a slip up by OP. God knows, he made plenty of them. The exchange about how many rounds he normally has in his magazine came after the long x about Tasha's, so OP may not have been thinking his answer might have implications for the night of the shooting.

 

[delilah]

Jeez, going over some more OP x. The bit where he says he keeps a full spare mag in his bedside drawer, for his own safety. For his own safety? So he has his firearm with a magazine of 18 rounds, but he needs another full mag for his own safety? And sometimes he carries the spare mag around with him. In what circumstances does he think he needs more than 18 rounds - for his own safety??? Who does he think he is - Jack Bauer???

 

[ColonelMustard]

I ran across a photo of Henke from Carl's culpable homicide trial in 4/2013.
I barely recognized him. Click to enlarge and you may agree.




http://resources3.news.com.au/image...1-henke-pistorius-at-carl-pistorius-trial.jpg


Here's Henke at Oscar's trial in 8/2014.
What a difference a year and half makes.



http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4022593.ece/alternates/s510b/Oscar-Pistorius.jpg

 

[ColonelMustard]

On the question of those initial bangs being gunshots or bat sounds - it now looks to me that there is a problem with the version that those are OP bashing up bathroom panels and tiles with bat. Going by Stipps' testimony, after this set of bangs and before the fatal bangs later, Reeva was outside the toilet cubicle, and in all probability, came into the bathroom (from downstairs, from bedroom, whatever) and entered the toilet (cf. their testimony regarding the scream coming nearer). Now if OP was already in the bathroom bashing up things in that manner, why would Reeva run towards the bathroom? Does not make sense.

My memory fails me, right now, but or whatever it may be worth, a long time ago, someone suggested as part of a longer theory of what happened that night, that Reeva was in the toilet when he was bashing around on tub panel, tiles?, whatever. When he left (temporarily, to get his gun??) she eased out thinking it was safe only to jump back in again, when he came raging back.

It was further suggested that that's how/why she was standing at the door when he shot. She had just jumped back in there, while simultaneously shutting the toilet door and locking it, when the first shot rang out.

 

[ColonelMustard]

I said it at the time and I'll say it again...........................if Carice did actually hear Reeva screaming then she has to live with that for the rest of her life.
she lied and she should suffer for her lies forever................but....
If she didn't hear any screams then she must know by now the amount of people doubting her testimony and she should go to the media,when this is finally over,to clarify what she meant by saying "what happened to the lady?" IMO.

ps.
I cannot imagine the pain/trauma/devastation these witnesses must have went through and will still be going through because of this event and will be for the rest of their lives.
I therefore need to clarify my position/opinion and state that the guilty need to be punished to act as a deterrent to future offenders.
Harshly and unjustly the innocent witnesses are punished by far the worse................Carise may be one of those as she was genuinely upset on the stand as were all the other witnesses and I felt for every one of them................including OP even though I think he is a cold blooded murderer.

I felt like Carice may have lied, by omission and commission - whatever she had to do to support Oscar. Wasn't she also the one who, when they first got to the house said something like, "We can't let the press know about this?"

From things OP's family have said, and other Pistorious supporters, I think they are genuinely of a mind to believe that no matter what happened, Reeva's dead and there's nothing anyone can do to bring her back. So, put her and everything around her death in "Box A" (coffin?) over here, and forget about it. We need to focus 100% on saving the one life that still can be saved: Oscar's.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Don't know if this has ever been posted
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-mum-claims-daughters-killing-4551160
It is another terrible case of a wealthy man killing his girlfriend that I didn't know about .
Her mother is using the press interest in the Reeva's death to highlight her daughters case which is understandable after 8years waiting for some sort of justice .

From Writing the Male Character by Margaret Atwood (1982)

'"Why do men feel threatened by women?" I asked a male friend of mine.

So this male friend of mine, who does by the way exist, conveniently entered into the following dialogue.

"I mean," I said, "men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power."

"They're afraid women will laugh at them," he said. "Undercut their world view."

Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, "Why do women feel threatened by men?"

"They're afraid of being killed," they said.'"​

 

[ColonelMustard]

A sidebar to the Bail statement

At least we are getting meaningful law reform in this area in the UK - though it does not go far enough

A suspect, to whom all facts are known, can legitimately be expected to give a complete explanation soon after the event in specific circumstances

After all OP has top counsel advising him, and need only tell the truth.

The fact that key "facts" were withheld and changed says a lot IMO



It's interesting when you read the bail statement again, how many critical facts are incorrect or missing.

Personally I think it is crazy that OP can rely on these "facts" later, without making an accurate statement on the first day

Indeed it is precisely this approach that enabled him to manufacture his bail statement which is missing all the key information like whether reeva was awake, timings etc.

Indeed in this version he "screams" at Reeva to call the police - later changed to whispers, later changed to tells her in a low voice.

It is hard to take this nonsense seriously.

But needless to say, there is nothing in there about

1. Staying in the room, instead of going on the balcony
2. Reeva being awake
3. moving two fans
4. The blue light
5. The noise of the toilet door closing
6. Protracted screaming while approaching the toilet
7. The extended search for Reeva
8. Screaming after he shot Reeva
9. The approx time before he broke in to the toilet
10. How many cricket bat hits he used
11. Turning off the alarm

Indeed if you read it - there is little real information at all.

How about the window slamming?

 

[ColonelMustard]

Question is...............changed by who?
Roux seemingly is defending to ensure his client gets a fair trial ( as someone on here ,Jj I think,pointed out to me ages ago)whether he thinks his client is guilty or not.
Everything I've seen in this trial suggests,to me,that the defence team are a set of lying cheats manipulating the evidence and testimonies to suit their client and get him acquitted.
No way could OP have come up with all these scenarios and defences on his own..............no way.
He's been coached by the defence which makes them just as responsible in my eyes.

Roux knows OP shot through the door at Reeva as does all of the defence team and OP's family and I just hope he and they can live with that thought for the rest of their natch..................you too Carice.
Happy dreams to all.

I see this as a difference in theory and practice.

In Theory: The Defense works to ensure that their client gets a fair trial, whether s/he thinks (knows) the client is guilty or not.

In Practice: The Defense works to win, whether s/he thinks (knows) the client is guilty or not.

 

[ColonelMustard]

... In SA if there are two criminal actions of note they have to be shoot an intruder (likely to only get you CH and possibly without any jail time) and framing the police (bound to get you off). ....

And, I understand, life without parole if you poach a rhino.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Yep, it is. Like the bit where he says he wakes and notices that the fans are still on in his EIC.

"It was extremely warm in my room. I sat up in bed. I noticed that the fans were still running and that the door was still open."

He's so eager to tell us that the fans were on that he inserts it at this point when it makes no sense, since it implies that Reeva should have switched them off!

I risk being pooh-poohed, again, here, but I have always thought that, at least part of the fight that night (if not a trigger) was related to the fact that he had told her/expected her to turn the fans off? bring them inside? and she didn't do it.

(I find that, when someone drops a piece of info. into a mix, which seems to have no relevance at all, it signals that it has GREAT significance to them, otherwise they wouldn't have thought to say it at all. )

 

[Fuskier]

FYI on those who query the tactile psychologist:
http://www.health24.com/Columnists/Oscar-the-long-awaited-verdict-20141022
22 OCTOBER 2014
Oscar – the long-awaited verdict
Hand-holding therapy

"... It was reported that before the judge entered court, Ms Harzenburg was sitting beside Oscar, holding his hand. This is not orthodox behaviour, nor does it form part of normal trauma therapy. This sort of infantilizing of Oscar could actually do real harm..." Agree.

 

[ColonelMustard]

I didn't bother responding to the original post as I thought it was 'oddly amusing'...

That's HILARIOUS! Yeah, sometimes it's hard for me to keep my manic side in check, especially when it's late at night and no one's in here but me. Ha!

What I was trying to say (I know you got it) was that some people can simultaneously be completely inept in some areas of their lives while nearly genius in others.

Thus, OP knows nothing of world events (conjecture) yet everything about lying like a pro.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[ColonelMustard]

As an engineer myself that statement in bold really made me laugh thank you .
This site is more than just sleuthing that's for sure :clap:

Well, there you go, Bro! We most certainly were separated at birth because my son is an engineer and my extended family is riddled with them!

 

[Fuskier]

FYI re Ms Vergeer:
http://www.health24.com/Columnists/O...rdict-20141022
22 OCTOBER 2014
Oscar – the long-awaited verdict
Vergeer needs to disappear

"... Delightfully and appropriately, judge Masipa was blisteringly critical of the “evidence” of Ms Vergeer... Her report was disgracefully sloppy, out-of-date and inaccurate... If mere correctional supervision were ever a possibility, Vergeer’s report killed it stone dead... I can’t see how she could be of value in any other cases after this... She was denounced as slapdash and disappointing, and the court expressed a lack of confidence in her opinions. Now would be a good time for her to take up gardening or knitting"...

 

[ColonelMustard]

I have often thought that OP was on his prosthetics the whole time and knelt down when firing the shots so that he could later say he was on his stumps to give the impression that he was vulnerable.

And how about someone's theory from somewhere, that he was wearing his gun the whole night.

I had never thought of that.

 

[ochreblue]

Very well argued Lux et Veritas!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ColonelMustard]

Y'all remember OP saying that he "knelt down"? Could he/would he kneel if he was on his stumps? If yes, would that have impeded his ability to get up, 1 leg or 2?

Is there any chance that either with or without his legs on, kneeling on one leg or two, that he simply wheeled around that wall on his knee/s and started shooting?
Would the gun and hole trajectories fit that way, if he held the gun up over his head as in the 2nd photo below? (Around here, gangers hold their guns even higher that that when they shoot.)

When Derman was doing his "gun pose" for Nel, OP was sitting there nodding strongly as Derman moved his arm up, up as in "Yes, that's right."



(Google search: " pistol aim")

 

[ColonelMustard]

I don't believe that when Carise said this that it was heard in the court even though we could hear her say it quite clearly through the recording equipment. I think there were other occasions when those in court did not hear what we could hear.

It did not make sense for this very important comment to simply be ignored.

That's really interesting. Could be. I couldn't figure out why Nel didn't follow up on it - and there were plenty of times when we heard things crystal clearly, while Masipa asked OP and other witnesses to speak up.