8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[nrdsb4]

I think Diane took ambien either advert aptly or inadvertently. My own experience with ambien included drinking hard alcohol straight. I would never do this in my right mind. The way she was acting very much in an altered state like sleepwalking. I think it fits w what happened. You can get up with ambien and look like a normal person doing something yet you can't remember in am

Diane was tested for drugs. Ambien be detected in the urine the following day or up to 48 IIRC.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I think Diane took ambien either advert aptly or inadvertently. My own experience with ambien included drinking hard alcohol straight. I would never do this in my right mind. The way she was acting very much in an altered state like sleepwalking. I think it fits w what happened. You can get up with ambien and look like a normal person doing something yet you can't remember in am

This is a good thought. Did she have a prescription for Ambien? I can't remember.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

But police spoke to people who she interacted with after she awakened such as the Park worker and the McDonald's worker and they didn't report she appeared to be in an altered state.

Some people under the influence of Ambien act completely normal yet have absolutely no recollection of events later. I have taken 5 mg of Ambien once in a while and never had any issues that I knew of until last summer. I took it and slept well, and the next morning found a protein bar wrapper in my bed, meaning I'd had to have gotten out of bed, walked to the box of protein bars, walked back to bed, eaten it, all without any memory of doing so the next morning.

 

[MyBelle]

Some people under the influence of Ambien act completely normal yet have absolutely no recollection of events later. I have taken 5 mg of Ambien once in a while and never had any issues that I knew of until last summer. I took it and slept well, and the next morning found a protein bar wrapper in my bed, meaning I'd had to have gotten out of bed, walked to the box of protein bars, walked back to bed, eaten it, all without any memory of doing so the next morning.

Have you ever interacted with someone and they said you appeared "normal"? That's the part I'm not understanding. How she could have taken it the night before and then appeared normal and then switched into the incoherent state her brother said she was later on the phone.

 

[Nova]

The coroner looked at her teeth in the autopsy. It absolutely does NOT take an xray to see an abscess. Especially one that was supposedly that bad. It would be seen to even a novice eye looking at teeth.

Are you a dental professional, blue22? I'm not trying to be contrary, but I've had several abscesses that were too severe even for root canals and the teeth had to be removed ASAP. (They were back teeth so stop imagining I look like a character out of LI'L ABNER! LOL.)

The pain came on suddenly and was so severe I would have happily driven into something to stop it (though not with my children or nieces and nephews in the car). The dentist had to tap my teeth with his probe until I shouted in pain--he couldn't tell which tooth was abscessed simply from looking; the infection was at root level.

(That being said, I'm open to the possibility that coroners have instruments the average dentist does not have. But I think the report that the coroner debunked the tooth abscess idea has to wait until and unless we have testimony directly from the coroner.)

 

[Nova]

I will admit here and now that any of the above theories strikes me more reasonable than the idea that she deliberately committed vehicular homicide with children not her own. By all accounts, Diane loved children. I know that parents sometimes take their children with them because they fear nobody will step up to care for the kids when they are orphans.

But DS' nieces had both loving parents still at home. DS had a lots of choices, from dropping them off at the house to leaving them behind at the toll booth or McDonald's. She didn't have to kill them, even if she was suicidal.

I just can't get my mind around deliberate murder of children by someone who had only welcomed children into her home in the past.

 

[MyBelle]

The coroner looked at her teeth in the autopsy. It absolutely does NOT take an xray to see an abscess. Especially one that was supposedly that bad. It would be seen to even a novice eye looking at teeth.

How is an abscessed tooth diagnosed?

Diagnosis of a tooth abscess is collectively determined by: 1) signs and symptoms reported by the patient, 2) exam and tests that are performed by the dentist, and 3) what is visualized with dental radiographs (X-rays).

http://www.medicinenet.com/abscessed_tooth_guide/page2.htm

 

[MyBelle]

Are you a dental professional, blue22? I'm not trying to be contrary, but I've had several abscesses that were too severe even for root canals and the teeth had to be removed ASAP. (They were back teeth so stop imagining I look like a character out of LI'L ABNER! LOL.)

The pain came on suddenly and was so severe I would have happily driven into something to stop it (though not with my children or nieces and nephews in the car). The dentist had to tap my teeth with his probe until I shouted in pain--he couldn't tell which tooth was abscessed simply from looking; the infection was at root level.

(That being said, I'm open to the possibility that coroners have instruments the average dentist does not have. But I think the report that the coroner debunked the tooth abscess idea has to wait until and unless we have testimony directly from the coroner.)

I agree. My daughter's abscess came on suddenly and she said the pain was excruciating. I doubt a coroner would be interested in exploring dental issues unless death was from a massive infection instead of a motor vehicle accident.

JMO

 

[wfgodot]

Maybe -- perhaps, and probably -- it's because I've recently moved Back East, just a mile and a bit from an on-ramp to the Taconic, about an hour, maybe a bit less, from the accident scene, and thus have spent much more time thinking about this case in the last six months than I did in the total of the several years since the tragic event -- but in this whole process of mulling it over and attempting to grasp hard truths I've found such little success; oh, I know I should do my usual Occam's Razor bit of slicing away every unlikely thing and thus arrive at the cold truth, tidily packaged, and yet there's something -- call it a something in the tall shadows of the handsome old parkway come late afternoon; something elusive and mysterious and not even, really, there -- that makes me think something happened that we really can't grasp, something almost beyond our means of knowing....

Then of course I shake off that feeling of being very nearly caught napping; and again try to position that framework of cold rationality that states concretely and unequivocally that, whatever the details -- and this time, it's the devil that is in the details -- this case is finally and only about a driver who, of her own volition, got drunk and killed herself and the rest in a selfish act of self-abegnation whose echoes still resound, and will resound forever, up and down that handsome old parkway, caught in its shadows till the end of time.

 

[GinaSeikwa]

I have such a deep fascination with this case. I just recently watched the HBO doc and have read the autopsy and police reports. I think I can relate quite a bit to Diane actually on a personal level and what was going on in her life at the time. We were born the same year and her daughter Erin and my son actually share the same birth date. I am the money maker in the family, I enjoy my wine at night, I too am pretty tenacious and type A, and we also have a camper in upstate NY :-0.

I really think that she left the campsite that morning with a determination to do what she ultimately did. I don't think she had a stroke or a moving tumour in her leg and though she may have had tooth pain I don't think that's what led her to drink. Anyone who owns a camper especially with kids has a first aid kit or at the very least brings up childrens Tylenol with them in the diaper bag that can be used in a pinch. She passed a drugstore on the route between the Mcdonalds and the gas station. It has never been proven that she even asked for Tylenol/Advil at the gas station and the clerk refused to talk to police. She seems to pull out of the gas station and into traffic pretty quickly and aggressively on the surveillance tape. I can't help but wonder if her aggressive driving earlier was meant to cause an accident before she got closer to home. She could have called someone or told Emma to call her dad if she was in so much pain. She spoke to Jackie during one conversation and spoke about the dance recital, getting two tickets etc.. She could have said "geez my tooth is killing me I can't wait to get home and rest so I'll just drop off the girls and run sorry".
I've driven home from our campsite with a suspected appendicitis ( stupid) and it is also about a 2 hour drive and though it was incredibly painful and I could barely breathe and was sweating and swearing, all I could think about was "gotta get home, I can do this, in 2 hours I'll be home, gotta do this". So as painful as an abcess would be she could have either called for help or just gotten home. I really think the alcohol and pot she consumed was for liquid courage. She knew what she was going to do and as she got closer to home without either getting into a desired accident or getting caught by the cops for driving aggressively she stepped up her game because she knew that time was running out. Hence the leaving the cell phone behind, the 6 grams of alcohol still undigested and the recent 15 minute to an hour tokes. By all eyewitness accounts she was incredibly focused on the Taconic. She was driving straight as a pin and fast, her eyes were open and both hands were on the steering wheel. She was not passed out or slumped over. She was determined.
Whatever happened that weekend had everything to do with it. I wonder if the older girls witnessed or overheard anything on that camping trip. They certainly did in the car ride. I was so hoping in the HBO doc that when they brought in the forensic psychiatrist that they would focus on that weekend and the events leading up to it and perhaps flesh out something of importance. She was by all accounts burning the candle at both ends, she had 2 kids under the age of 5. More than likely her kids weren't sleeping through the night (her daughter had just turned 2 a few weeks before) and Diane was probably the one getting at all hours to deal with the nightmares, and the potty training, and the boo boos and everything else that comes with the territory of having very young children. She was utterly stressed and exhausted. She needed pot to relax for goodness sakes! She had probably tried ambien and other sleep aids as well though I don't believe that was a factor THAT DAY. She had an unhelpful and selfish husband who worked nights and did little to help her out. He was also dishonest and spent nights mysteriously elsewhere at least on that weekend. I'm sorry but I do really feel for this woman.
And that's why I say that if they wanted to, her family could be honest and open up and start a dialogue but that would mean admitting that they themselves were imperfect and that's not likely to happen. Of course my heart breaks for the Bastardis, and Mr. Longo and the Hance girls and Erin and everybody whose lives were destroyed by her actions but I really feel that Diane didn't act that day in a vacuum. She lashed out at others through events in her own life. I don't want to see that dialogue stop. I want to keep questioning why.

 

[RANCH]

How is an abscessed tooth diagnosed?

Diagnosis of a tooth abscess is collectively determined by: 1) signs and symptoms reported by the patient, 2) exam and tests that are performed by the dentist, and 3) what is visualized with dental radiographs (X-rays).

http://www.medicinenet.com/abscessed_tooth_guide/page2.htm

BBM 1)

Did Diane ever report symptoms of a tooth abscess to anyone before the trip home? If she had severe pain from an abscess wouldn't she tell someone or at least show outward signs of discomfort?

 

[MyBelle]

BBM 1)

Did Diane ever report symptoms of a tooth abscess to anyone before the trip home? If she had severe pain from an abscess wouldn't she tell someone or at least show outward signs of discomfort?

She may have. The story came from somewhere. I believe I did read somewhere that at least one of the children said in a phone call that she was complaining of a severe headache and eye problems.

It really doesn't matter whether she told anyone or not, she made a choice to drink, smoke weed and to drive. I just don't believe her goal was suicide. I really think she was self-medicating for whatever reason. She thought she was still in control and intended to complete her task of returning the children.

JMO

 

[RANCH]

She may have. The story came from somewhere. I believe I did read somewhere that at least one of the children said in a phone call that she was complaining of a severe headache and eye problems.

It really doesn't matter whether she told anyone or not, she made a choice to drink, smoke weed and to drive. I just don't believe her goal was suicide. I really think she was self-medicating for whatever reason. She thought she was still in control and intended to complete her task of returning the children.

JMO

I remember the same. One of the kids reported that something was wrong with Diane on the drive home. I was wondering if she reported any kind of pain before they left the campground.

Did anyone notice Diane displaying any symptoms consistent with a painful tooth abscess before they left for home?

 

[MyBelle]

People have speculated over and over about why she would ask for pain medication (which as noted before has never been established as fact). There was the tooth abscess theory as well as the simple possibility that she was hung over.

In any case, none of that really provides mitigating circumstances. If she was in such bad pain that she felt she couldn't cope, she should have called someone to help her out. Her husband would have been a good start. Presumably she was sober when this unbearable pain started. What sober person who is not normally a big drinker even thinks of drinking alcohol to relieve pain while driving a van full of kids somewhere? That wouldn't occur to most non-drinkers as an option to reject. It would never even enter their mind.

Whether or not she was in pain really is a non issue in the big picture, because she had other more reasonable options at her disposal to address this , particularly as she was noted to be such a responsible, competent, intelligent, resourceful and incredible mom and loving aunt.

I truly am sorry you have so much pain over this case. The facts that we do know are that Diane could not cope for whatever reason. I do disagree with you in your conclusion that she was unreasonable. I think she did what her brain told her was best. None of us are capable of judging what her "reasonable options" were.

 

[nrdsb4]

I truly am sorry you have so much pain over this case. The facts that we do know are that Diane could not cope for whatever reason. I do disagree with you in your conclusion that she was unreasonable. I think she did what her brain told her was best. None of us are capable of judging what her "reasonable options" were.

Okay, trying to invalidate my point of view by stating that I have "pain over this case" is an underhanded way to debate the issue, imo; in fact I find it highly disingenuous given the post you quoted.

The TOOTH pain theory didn't come out until Daniel's lawyer got involved. In his interviews with police, Daniel stated that Diane had no medical issues and took no medicines.

The root canal incident took place years prior to this event.

I disagree that we cannot conclude that Diane had more reasonable options to deal with physical pain than chugging vodka and ingesting pot while carrying young children in the car.

In one of the earlier threads, I read a post which I thought said it very well:

I can't be convinced of any potential physical ailment. Danny right from the start has always said she was fine that morning. The mentions of the toothache came up later, once spin-doctor Dominic Barbara comes on the scene and starts inventing things. In fact, When Daniel Schuler was on Larry King and he asked about the toothache, Danny stated that Dominic Barbara 'knows more about that then me'. At the press conference Barbara brought up all these fantasy medical issues with no evidence whatsoever; the toothache, the lump on her leg that was moving, the stroke, the Anbesol theory... never mentioned in the HBO show and ruled out during autopsy.

There is only one piece of ‘evidence’ the Schuler's hang all their explanations on. The supposed ‘fact’ that she asked for tylenol at the Sunoco station. Lets explore this for a moment. Aside from the fact that there are many stores along that stretch of road where she could have stopped aside from that gas station.

It is a fact that the police did not interview the Sunoco clerk. The raw video shows all the frames from all the cameras at once. Keep your eye on the clerk, it is clear he did not look up when she walked in, nor did he look at her when they spoke for 1/2 second. According to the timestamps on the video, she is in the store for 12 seconds. The only person who ever claimed she asked for pain medication was Tom Ruskin, who spoke to him on August 14, twenty days after the accident. I repeat, the Sunoco clerk was never interviewed by the police. There is no evidence whatsoever that she was looking for tylenol, none. Its all part of the spin. Even if she was, who is to say it wasn’t for one of the kids? It looked more like she was looking for a bathroom, not at any products on display in the store.

Page 14 of the Police Report includes the following:

“Private Investigator Thomas Ruskin stated that he obtained a video of Diane at a gas station in Liberty. Ruskin turned over a copy of this video which was secured at the BCI Evidence Locker Item #4″

“Investigator Daniel Quinones later attempted to interview the clerk a the Sunoco. The clerk (one word blacked out) refused to speak to the State Police.”

So there you have it, the only person saying she was looking for tylenol is a convicted felon hired by Schuler and his disbarred spin lawyer. Factor in the fact that Danny and Jay said she never even mentioned she had a toothache and the dental records mentioned a root canal 4 years ago and what do you have?

 

[rob]

BBM 1)

Did Diane ever report symptoms of a tooth abscess to anyone before the trip home? If she had severe pain from an abscess wouldn't she tell someone or at least show outward signs of discomfort?

If you had an abscessed tooth and were in pain, would you take all these kids on a camping trip? My feeling has always been that something happened on the trip, and the husband could if he wanted to, say what that was.
All MOO

 

[zippitydoda]

She was impaired by the alcohol and marijuana. Nobody who is impaired by that combo is going to be making a reasonable decision.

JMO

Yes, most people following this case are well aware that DS was impaired. I was responding to the claims of some that she had an abscess, and if she was in such pain, why not simply just drive home over her choice of driving around for hours pounding shots while driving a van full of children.

 

[MyBelle]

If you had an abscessed tooth and were in pain, would you take all these kids on a camping trip? My feeling has always been that something happened on the trip, and the husband could if he wanted to, say what that was.
All MOO

We don't know if she was in pain when the trip started or if she was in pain at all. We also do not know what the husband knew or if he could have prevented it.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, most people following this case are well aware that DS was impaired. I was responding to the claims of some that she had an abscess, and if she was in such pain, why not simply just drive home over her choice of driving around for hours pounding shots while driving a van full of children.

I haven't seen anybody claiming anything as fact. We are all speculating. We don't know if she was in pain but if she was, nothing was "simple." She had a duty to get the children home and her personality seemed to be one which refused to ask anybody for help.

JMO

 

[Nova]

If you had an abscessed tooth and were in pain, would you take all these kids on a camping trip? My feeling has always been that something happened on the trip, and the husband could if he wanted to, say what that was.
All MOO

You may well be right. And I don't know DS had an abscess. But I know from personal experience that an abscess can go from mild sensitivity to mortal agony in a half-day or so. That she wasn't in extreme pain when she arrived at the campground doesn't prove she wasn't when she left.