Day Number 1 What Convinces You There Was No Intruder/12 Days of JonBenet

[singularity]

There's no reason to blame either of them for calling the police. A child was "kidnapped". Every single person here would call 911 if their child was kidnapped. What's the alternative....sitting there twiddling your thumbs for hours or days on end hoping they bring your child back unharmed?

Dialing 911 is about the only thing they don't deserve any criticism for doing.

 

[kanzz]

The dust and cobwebs were not disturbed. The ransom note was left on the bottom of the spiral staircase, not on JBR's bed, or say the kitchen counter. PR called police and friends dispite the fact that her child would be "beheaded", if she did so. There was no intruder.

:Welcome1:
Welcome, Corvallisjen!
Glad you're here.

 

[Tortoise]

Miz...

THis is one of the simple things in the case that I don't understand although I guess when they were put into a situation where they are overthinking things, the small stuff can easily slide by.

He could've so easily said him and his wife had been drinking and he might have forgot to lock all the doors. Its simple, to the point, and instantly allows the possibility for the phantom intruder.

At that stage, he wanted police to focus on the windows, and that is why he said the doors were locked.

 

[Miz Adventure]

This is something that occurred to me but I didn't know which thread to post it on.


Another little thing that points to there being no 'kidnapper'.....

Detective Arndt says that 10 a.m., the ransom note deadline, passed unnoticed. She says that the Ramseys did not remark whatsoever regarding the fact that the kidnapper had not called.

Much later when John was questioned about his nonchalance of the kidnapper not phoning (and he'd had time to think about it), he said it was because the ransom note stated "tomorrow" which could have implied the following day - the 27th.
Fine. So now John is expecting the kidnapper to call the following day. Right?

Yet…..

At 1:30 p.m.(less than half an hour after John had 'discovered' his daughter's body in the wine cellar) a detective overheard John Ramsey talking by phone to his pilot and arranging a trip to Atlanta that evening for himself, his wife and son. Det. Sgt. Larry Mason told him, “You can’t leave.”

Surely the fact John wanted the family to immediately get out of the house, and out of state, shows he knew no kidnapper would be calling the following day, or ever!

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

"At one point that morning, while the family and police investigators still awaited the ransom call, pilot Mike Archuleta volunteered to fly to Minnesota to intercept the commercial jet carrying Melinda and Stewart -the suggestion being that he could quickly meet the kids and ferry them back to Boulder, thus avoiding the hassle of their having to arrange a new commercial flight into Denver. John Ramsey nixed the idea, and I wondered why he didn’t want to take advantage of his pilot’s offer to shortcut the uncertainty of the availability of flights that would divert the kids to Colorado. I gave thought to the idea that perhaps he had declined this offer because he wanted to be assured of his private plane being accessible for a quick departure from the state. What came later seemed to confirm that piece of speculation."
Kolar, chapter 31




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[Miz Adventure]

"At one point that morning, while the family and police investigators still awaited the ransom call, pilot Mike Archuleta volunteered to fly to Minnesota to intercept the commercial jet carrying Melinda and Stewart -the suggestion being that he could quickly meet the kids and ferry them back to Boulder, thus avoiding the hassle of their having to arrange a new commercial flight into Denver. John Ramsey nixed the idea, and I wondered why he didn’t want to take advantage of his pilot’s offer to shortcut the uncertainty of the availability of flights that would divert the kids to Colorado. I gave thought to the idea that perhaps he had declined this offer because he wanted to be assured of his private plane being accessible for a quick departure from the state. What came later seemed to confirm that piece of speculation."
Kolar, chapter 31




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John DID phone his pilot to cancel the Michigan flight. That was in the morning.

But he later rang the pilot again to arrange for the family to fly to Atlanta. And this is the flight that he was advised not to take. Fleet White rang the pilot back and cancelled the Atlanta trip.

From The Police Files page 310 -it is also mentioned in Steve Thomas's book plus many other publications.

I have just found it here as well.....

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/4fdu3i/whats_up_with_the_rumor_of_a_scheduling_a_flight/

 

[DexterMorgan]

Did the killer sit at the table and write a 3 page ransom for a victim that was never taken out of the house?

Why would the killer do such a very time consuming thing?

 

[Cranberry]

"At one point that morning, while the family and police investigators still awaited the ransom call, pilot Mike Archuleta volunteered to fly to Minnesota to intercept the commercial jet carrying Melinda and Stewart -the suggestion being that he could quickly meet the kids and ferry them back to Boulder, thus avoiding the hassle of their having to arrange a new commercial flight into Denver. John Ramsey nixed the idea, and I wondered why he didn’t want to take advantage of his pilot’s offer to shortcut the uncertainty of the availability of flights that would divert the kids to Colorado. I gave thought to the idea that perhaps he had declined this offer because he wanted to be assured of his private plane being accessible for a quick departure from the state. What came later seemed to confirm that piece of speculation."
Kolar, chapter 31




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Perhaps JR nixed the offer from MA to pick up the kids in MN because it bought him some time. No call and LE is in for the long haul. What if he did find JBR earlier? He didn't want his children to be there when JBR was found. Maybe JR had an ETA when the kids would arrive from the Denver airport to Boulder via car. Remember when everyone walked out and left the crime scene at 2:00 and his children arrived out front as if on cue.

 

[jerkface]

A small foreign faction that needs only 118.000. dollars doesn't have much of a budget.

 

[jerkface]

That's good thinking on your part.

 

[k-mac]

A small foreign faction that needs only 118.000. dollars doesn't have much of a budget.

ST: You can appreciate Patsy, and I watched on CNN, and I tried to follow this point closely. We know that we’re not a large police department, and I’m certainly the first to ask for help when something’ beyond me or to go to experts. And I’m a little concerned because we’ve gone to the experts, the FBI, and Secret Service and Interpol and they told us there’s not an SBTC, and we’re having trouble with this small foreign faction, and the FBI guys in Quantico say that there were steps taken to make this look like something that it wasn’t.
PR: I’m losing you here. We having trouble with our what small foreign faction, what’s that?



bbm...well PR wouldnt know.....its not like she read it or anything!.....sheesh
who what huh??
:banghead:

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

John DID phone his pilot to cancel the Michigan flight. That was in the morning.

But he later rang the pilot again to arrange for the family to fly to Atlanta. And this is the flight that he was advised not to take. Fleet White rang the pilot back and cancelled the Atlanta trip.

From The Police Files page 310 -it is also mentioned in Steve Thomas's book plus many other publications.

I have just found it here as well.....

https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/4fdu3i/whats_up_with_the_rumor_of_a_scheduling_a_flight/

Just to be clear, I wasn't posting about the scheduled Michigan flight at 7/7:30am or JR's attempted flight after the body was found. It was the pilot's proposed flight to pick up the adult kids at an airport and get them home quicker while JB was still "kidnapped". I came to the same conclusion Kolar did: JR wouldn't let the plane go elsewhere because wanted the plane to be ready as soon as he needed it (and he wasn't sure when he needed it, but he knew he'd need it relatively soon). So even though it would make more sense for him (if he had no plans of flying anywhere that day) to send his pilot to pick up his kids and get then home quicker, he chose not to because he knew there would be no call and was hoping to flee the state ASAP. Not sending the plane out on other business = he already knew she was dead.


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[DrollForeignFaction]

Perhaps JR nixed the offer from MA to pick up the kids in MN because it bought him some time. No call and LE is in for the long haul. What if he did find JBR earlier? He didn't want his children to be there when JBR was found. Maybe JR had an ETA when the kids would arrive from the Denver airport to Boulder via car. Remember when everyone walked out and left the crime scene at 2:00 and his children arrived out front as if on cue.

That's an interesting thought, that he may have wanted to delay the adult kids so they wouldn't have to see their sister dead. I've always wondered if maybe part of the reason they sent Burke out of the house that morning is that they didn't want him around when the body was inevitably discovered. John also claimed that he covered JB's body with a blanket after he carried her upstairs because he didn't want Patsy to see her that way.


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[Prahasaurus]

Miz...

THis is one of the simple things in the case that I don't understand although I guess when they were put into a situation where they are overthinking things, the small stuff can easily slide by.

He could've so easily said him and his wife had been drinking and he might have forgot to lock all the doors. Its simple, to the point, and instantly allows the possibility for the phantom intruder.

Because he had planned to say the intruder came in from the broken basement window. So no need for unlocked doors, which would place some blame on him for being negligent (not legal blame, just from neighbors, family or friends)... It's all so simple, the intruder came in from the window, case closed! But then he later learned that would have been impossible, and it was time to invent a new story, or at least keep open the possibility of a new story.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Did the killer sit at the table and write a 3 page ransom for a victim that was never taken out of the house?

Why would the killer do such a very time consuming thing?

Exactly. He wouldn't.

 

[otg]

This is something that occurred to me but I didn't know which thread to post it on.


Another little thing that points to there being no 'kidnapper'.....

Detective Arndt says that 10 a.m., the ransom note deadline, passed unnoticed. She says that the Ramseys did not remark whatsoever regarding the fact that the kidnapper had not called.

Much later when John was questioned about his nonchalance of the kidnapper not phoning (and he'd had time to think about it), he said it was because the ransom note stated "tomorrow" which could have implied the following day - the 27th.
Fine. So now John is expecting the kidnapper to call the following day. Right?

Yet…..

At 1:30 p.m.(less than half an hour after John had 'discovered' his daughter's body in the wine cellar) a detective overheard John Ramsey talking by phone to his pilot and arranging a trip to Atlanta that evening for himself, his wife and son. Det. Sgt. Larry Mason told him, “You can’t leave.”

Surely the fact John wanted the family to immediately get out of the house, and out of state, shows he knew no kidnapper would be calling the following day, or ever!

Great points, Miz Adventure. It was all a charade. Ramsey knew no one would be calling that morning or the next. Once her body was "found," the charade was over and it was time to get the heck outta Dodge.

 

[Alchemist]

For me it is that there is nothing to suggest an intruder. As far as the cellar window, that is a joke. The alarm was off and there are doors on the first floor that an intruder could have walked right in and out. There may have been some one else in the house; but, the ramseys covered it up. There is nothing to suggest that either but it's possible.

 

[Alchemist]

Did the killer sit at the table and write a 3 page ransom for a victim that was never taken out of the house?

Why would the killer do such a very time consuming thing?

And don't forget... He wrote a practice letter first ..lol

 

[Alchemist]

The problem with this is that the police and the investigators found NO fingerprints on the ransom note.

Is it possible that the parents could have handled the note and not left their fingerprints? Or that the paper for some reason didn't retain that kind of print?"

No, because when the sergeant touched the same pad, he left a fingerprint on it. When the CBI examiner touched the same pad, he left a fingerprint on it.

Patsy had left previous fingerprints on that pad, five that were identified. So that remains one of the mysteries in this case. How come there's no identifiable fingerprints on this thing if one or both parents handled and grasped it that morning?

And the other question is - Why didn't Patsy pick up the ransom note and carry it to the telephone and read the pertinent parts over the phone to the police? It was the only real link to her missing daughter.

My theory is that the note was never on the stairs but was spread out on the floor by the Ramseys gloved hands. They did not want their prints to be found on the ransom note. Which left investigators wondering Why?

The flashlight and the batteries were wipe clean also. Why would batteries be wiped clean?...Hmmm I think the flashlight was the weapon that hit her head.

 

[singularity]

At that stage, he wanted police to focus on the windows, and that is why he said the doors were locked.

Because he had planned to say the intruder came in from the broken basement window. So no need for unlocked doors, which would place some blame on him for being negligent (not legal blame, just from neighbors, family or friends)... It's all so simple, the intruder came in from the window, case closed! But then he later learned that would have been impossible, and it was time to invent a new story, or at least keep open the possibility of a new story.

Not true. Its what makes the Ramseys stance on an intruder and Smit's elaborate creation of the intruder fantasy so sickening.

John immediately tried to distance the family from the window. He told a preposterous story that would never hold up to close scrutiny. Enter stage right Lou Smit who throws John a lifeline in the nick of time....a phantom intruder who can kill three birds with one stone....it explains the broken window, the open window, and the contents of the suitcase gets morphed into a red herring.

John can see what is going on and simply runs with this new and improved fantasy intruder that stumbles out of Smit's imagination even though it goes against John's own statements on this subject. The fact Smit wont even acknowledge John's 180 with a dose of faux outrage is a sign this is not on the up and up and would never pass a kosher smell test.

The moment Smit and Kane start dancing with John, holding his hand, and leading him through this fantasy is when the feds should've started knocking on all their doors sniffing for collusion.