SoCal fires continue thread 2

[SeriouslySearching]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
I think people should keep the remarks about our Goverment in the PP.

I totally disagree. When it is applicable to the situation to discuss government involvement as with this fire and the response to our citizens...it belongs here.

I can't imagine discussing Katrina and not being allowed to talk about the failures of the government during that time.

 

[JBean]

My friend in Lake Elsinore said they parked the Canadian flying boat in Lake Elsinore last night. He got up and there it was by the boat launches. they park it in the water so it won't tip over.
he will email me a picture and I'll post it.

 

[JDB]

I totally disagree. When it is applicable to the situation to discuss government involvement as with this fire and the response to our citizens...it belongs here.

I can't imagine discussing Katrina and not being allowed to talk about the failures of the government during that time.

The failure of our Govt. is one thing. But the reason the planes could not fly was because where ever the Pres. goes and has been policy since 9/11 . is for security

 

[Buzz Mills]

Calif. wildfires are still not contained

SAN DIEGO - The Santa Ana winds that helped fires explode across Southern California were dying down Thursday, but the fight was far from over: Despite a massive aerial assault, several blazes remained far from containment as flames drew perilously close to thousands of homes.

Some of the hundreds of thousands of evacuees were being allowed back into their neighborhoods, and shelters were emptying. Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego, which sheltered more than 10,000 people at the height of the evacuations, had just 2,500 people left Thursday morning.

Crews found two burned bodies in a gutted house north of San Diego, authorities said Thursday, raising the number of deaths directly caused by the fire to three. The San Diego medical examiner's office listed seven other deaths as connected to the blazes because all who died were evacuees.

More than 482,000 acres — about 753 square miles — were burned in a broad arc from Ventura County north of Los Angeles east to the San Bernardino National Forest and south to the U.S.-Mexico border. In San Diego County, which received the worst of the fires, crews cut fire lines around the major blazes, but none of the four fires was more than 40 percent contained and more than 8,500 homes remained threatened.

To the northeast, in the San Bernardino County mountain resort of Lake Arrowhead, fire officials said 16,000 homes were in the path of two wildfires that had destroyed more than 300 homes.

The fires remained out of control, but were being bombarded by aerial tankers and helicopters that dumped more than 30 loads of water.

In Orange County, firefighters lost ground overnight on a nearly 23,000-acre fire.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071025/ap_on_re_us/california_wildfires

 

[SeriouslySearching]

The failure of our Govt. is one thing. But the reason the planes could not fly was because where ever the Pres. goes and has been policy since 9/11 . is for security

Which is exactly why people are questioning his timing.

ETA: Is it more important for the President to make his grand appearance now when it means part of the force for containing the fires is shut down or for him to wait so they can be in full mode until such a time the fires have all been contained?

 

[JBean]

Calif. wildfires are still not contained

SAN DIEGO - The Santa Ana winds that helped fires explode across Southern California were dying down Thursday, but the fight was far from over: Despite a massive aerial assault, several blazes remained far from containment as flames drew perilously close to thousands of homes.

Some of the hundreds of thousands of evacuees were being allowed back into their neighborhoods, and shelters were emptying. Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego, which sheltered more than 10,000 people at the height of the evacuations, had just 2,500 people left Thursday morning.

Crews found two burned bodies in a gutted house north of San Diego, authorities said Thursday, raising the number of deaths directly caused by the fire to three. The San Diego medical examiner's office listed seven other deaths as connected to the blazes because all who died were evacuees.

More than 482,000 acres — about 753 square miles — were burned in a broad arc from Ventura County north of Los Angeles east to the San Bernardino National Forest and south to the U.S.-Mexico border. In San Diego County, which received the worst of the fires, crews cut fire lines around the major blazes, but none of the four fires was more than 40 percent contained and more than 8,500 homes remained threatened.

To the northeast, in the San Bernardino County mountain resort of Lake Arrowhead, fire officials said 16,000 homes were in the path of two wildfires that had destroyed more than 300 homes.

The fires remained out of control, but were being bombarded by aerial tankers and helicopters that dumped more than 30 loads of water.

In Orange County, firefighters lost ground overnight on a nearly 23,000-acre fire.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071025/ap_on_re_us/california_wildfires

thanks for posting Buzz. This thing is not over yet. the Santiago fire is really a mess. they lost 20% containment over night.

 

[Nova]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
I think people should keep the remarks about our Goverment in the PP.

Posters only say that when they don't like the remarks being made. Otherwise, we find political matters discussed here all the time, but usually only in a manner favorable to those currently in power.

As a rule, I try to limit political comments outside the PP. But politics are a part of life. We can't discuss anything at all without encroaching on the political arena to a large degree.

Hockymom is correct that Bush would get criticism whether he came or didn't come. He's "intrusive." Or he's "indifferent." But is it too much to expect him to put aside political considerations and do what is right? Stopping fire prevention efforts should clearly take precedence over the show business of making an appearance. After all, he's not even running for reelection...

 

[Love_Mama]

Congats, and happy everything is perfect!

Thanks so much TG...........this little Gracie is just beautiful..Hey, ugly would have worked.......who cares, this one is both beautiful AND healthy!
Smiled at me twice when I was holding and talking to her. She's gonna be feisty!

My daughter is in 7th Heaven!

xxxxxxxooooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

 

[JDB]

Which is exactly why people are questioning his timing.

I am not going to argue. But like hockey Mom said. if he would have sat in DC everyone would say why is not here.Seems I recall when Norcal had the Loma Preita quake. No one was asking why the Pres at that time showed up

 

[Nova]

They're not talking about the fire in PP thread! LOL We are.


JDB
Yes, it is important that the President be there but he could have easily been driven around a few of the neighborhoods where house's burned to the ground or had his photo taken with someone at Qualcom Stadium, or a family who had completely LOST their home.

xxxxxxxxxooooooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Or he could have flown to Sacramento and conferred with officials regarding recovery efforts and simply explained that going to San Diego right now would interfere with fighting the fire. Or he could have just appeared on TV. This isn't 1834.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Judy Garland refused to attend her daughter Liza Minnelli's first opening night on Broadway because, she explained to Minnelli, the resulting hoopla would detract from her daughter's moment. Garland was a famously neurotic actress who probably suffered from bi-polar disorder. If SHE had better judgment, why can't Bush?

What?? Miss a possible "Mission Acomplished" moment!! Surely ye jest.

 

[Nova]

I am not going to argue. But like hockey Mom said. if he would have sat in DC everyone would say why is not here.Seems I recall when Norcal had the Loma Preita quake. No one was asking why the Pres at that time showed up

Um, near as I can remember, they don't fight earthquakes with airplanes. A visiting president doesn't interfere with earthquake recovery in the same way.

But I do agree to the extent I don't think Bush is the only president who would have made the decision to come even at the cost of grounding firefighting planes. I'm just saying we all need to recognize that it is the wrong choice.

 

[JDB]

Or he could have flown to Sacramento and conferred with officials regarding recovery efforts and simply explained that going to San Diego right now would interfere with fighting the fire. Or he could have just appeared on TV. This isn't 1834.

HAs it ever dawn on you and everybody else. Bush was asked to come see it for himself. Supposed it was his fault they could not fly yesterday becasue of the smoke being so dense.
Arnie: took heat becasue they could not get planes up before they did. Why 100 MPH winds seems to make it really hard to fly

 

[JDB]

CAn we all myself included get back to the fire and off the politics.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Seems I recall when Norcal had the Loma Preita quake. No one was asking why the Pres at that time showed up

This statement makes no sense to me. It is comparing apples and oranges. A quake isn't an ongoing event (save the aftershocks), but this fire is still raging. To ground the air crews fighting it is absurd, imo. Didn't the government just get their additional airplanes into the area early this morning?

 

[Details]

I think a president - any president - who isn't seeming to take sufficient action gets criticized. I think going and visiting is used as a substitute, a sop, a fake-out, to substitute for real action.


Bush not going to Katrina isn't why he was criticized, the lack of federal government help was. But he's far from the only President to feel, or maybe even be told he needs to visit all these locations or else people will think he's doing nothing - the media loves the photo op, and simple dry facts of emergency plans and actions just aren't sexy enough.

Still, I'd like to see a president have the guts to say that they're adequately briefed, and they're personally making sure the affected area has all necessary federal help - and do so - and leave it at that. Photo ops with some poor family - I'm not real big on those. Definitely not with the President - maybe the mayor, governor, people directly responsible for the area.

 

[Nova]

thanks for posting Buzz. This thing is not over yet. the Santiago fire is really a mess. they lost 20% containment over night.

JBean, it's getting really smoky out here. Please come and get your damn smoke and take it back with you.

I'm sorry to use strong language, but I don't think it's too much to ask. I don't leave my trash at your house.

 

[Texana]

Congrats Love Mama to you and yours! :dance:

I hope the winds continue to die down but this bad air will eventually reach all of us, about 10 years ago we had air alerts in Austin from fires in Mexico. It was disgusting. (the haze and air quality.)

 

[JBean]

Can someone start a political implication thread or a constructive critical analysis thread? These issues certainly should be discussed, but my area is still burning and I try to find out what is going on by this thread.
This was a great thread for sharing real time updates on this devastating situation.

or not

 

[Nova]

HAs it ever dawn on you and everybody else. Bush was asked to come see it for himself. Supposed it was his fault they could not fly yesterday becasue of the smoke being so dense.
Arnie: took heat becasue they could not get planes up before they did. Why 100 MPH winds seems to make it really hard to fly

Oh, come on! As if, in this day of satellite imagery, any president can learn more with the naked eye than from the thousands of reports he has at his fingertips!

The Bush appearance is show business and nothing more. Now maybe you want to argue that an appearance by the president is comforting to the victims. Show business has its value.

But it would be more comforting to the victims to put out the fires.