SeriouslySearching
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You can't live in them, but they were again offered here after the tornados. People kept getting ill from the fumes.
SoCal fires continue thread 2
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TRIAL OF CHAD DAYBELL CHARGED WITH MURDER OF JJ VALLOW, TYLEE RYAN AND TAMMY DAYBELL #5
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GonzoReiter
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SeriouslySearching
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LOL That is why they were in Arkansas. : )
SeriouslySearching
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Those are awesome photos!!! (He should really watermark those.)
FlowerChild
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Bush - who cares?
The HEROES in this are the PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA! Not the Gov or the Pres, THE PEOPLE!
From victims to firefighters to volunteers the people of California showed how to respond to a disaster. And the victims - WOW! So calm, so civil, so appreciative, so heroic - getting along, staying calm, even helping OTHERS while their own homes burned. The outpouring of aid, food, water, shelter, support - WOW AGAIN! Almost a million people displaced and faced with the total loss of their homes and everything they own and there wasn't a single "incident"! All those people and animals and cars evacuated with haste, care and calmness. Rich, poor, old, young, ALL should be proud.
Now the Gov't can help - with food, shelter, clothing, money, support - but the beautiful part is that the Gov't may have "planned" this evacuation process, but THE PEOPLE HAVE TO ACT ON IT. All the planning in the world doesn't help if the people don't listen and don't cooperate.
The comparisons to Katrina are inevitable - but THIS WAS DIFFERENT in so many ways - a fire is not the same as a stadium surrounded by WATER with no utilities and no supplies in a HURRICANE. And we have learned too, people were not expected to leave their pets behind THIS TIME and transportation was not the issue it was in NO. Everyone in CA has a car! The things CA did right are hopefully going to help all across the US - the reverse 911 calls saved lives, no doubt!
Who CARES about Bush being there? Not me - I am in awe of how the people of California made this look easy - and Bush had NOTHING TO DO with that.
Sending help (donations) and good thoughts to everyone affected and especially those who suffered losses of any kind. And a special blessing on the brave firefighters on the ground and in the air. Words cannot convey proper gratitude for your efforts and your sacrifices - I would rather shake YOUR HAND than Bush's - you are real HEROES!
To ALL in Southern California - May tomorrow be better than today - stay strong and stand PROUD!
The HEROES in this are the PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA! Not the Gov or the Pres, THE PEOPLE!
From victims to firefighters to volunteers the people of California showed how to respond to a disaster. And the victims - WOW! So calm, so civil, so appreciative, so heroic - getting along, staying calm, even helping OTHERS while their own homes burned. The outpouring of aid, food, water, shelter, support - WOW AGAIN! Almost a million people displaced and faced with the total loss of their homes and everything they own and there wasn't a single "incident"! All those people and animals and cars evacuated with haste, care and calmness. Rich, poor, old, young, ALL should be proud.
Now the Gov't can help - with food, shelter, clothing, money, support - but the beautiful part is that the Gov't may have "planned" this evacuation process, but THE PEOPLE HAVE TO ACT ON IT. All the planning in the world doesn't help if the people don't listen and don't cooperate.
The comparisons to Katrina are inevitable - but THIS WAS DIFFERENT in so many ways - a fire is not the same as a stadium surrounded by WATER with no utilities and no supplies in a HURRICANE. And we have learned too, people were not expected to leave their pets behind THIS TIME and transportation was not the issue it was in NO. Everyone in CA has a car! The things CA did right are hopefully going to help all across the US - the reverse 911 calls saved lives, no doubt!
Who CARES about Bush being there? Not me - I am in awe of how the people of California made this look easy - and Bush had NOTHING TO DO with that.
Sending help (donations) and good thoughts to everyone affected and especially those who suffered losses of any kind. And a special blessing on the brave firefighters on the ground and in the air. Words cannot convey proper gratitude for your efforts and your sacrifices - I would rather shake YOUR HAND than Bush's - you are real HEROES!
To ALL in Southern California - May tomorrow be better than today - stay strong and stand PROUD!
AP IMPACT: Air Tankers, Helicopters Grounded As California Fires Took Hold
LOS ANGELES (Associated Press) -- As wildfires were charging across Southern California, nearly two dozen water-dropping helicopters and two massive cargo planes sat idly by, grounded by government rules and bureaucracy.
How much the aircraft would have helped will never be known, but their inability to provide quick assistance raises troubling questions about California's preparations for a fire season that was widely expected to be among the worst on record
It took as long as a day for Navy, Marine and California National Guard helicopters to get clearance early this week, in part because state rules require all firefighting choppers to be accompanied by state forestry "fire spotters" who coordinate water or retardant drops. By the time those spotters arrived, the powerful Santa Ana winds stoking the fires had made it too dangerous to fly.
The National Guard's C-130 cargo planes, among the most powerful aerial firefighting weapons, never were slated to help. The reason: They've yet to be outfitted with tanks needed to carry thousands of gallons of fire retardant, though that was promised four years ago.
"The weight of bureaucracy kept these planes from flying, not the heavy winds," Republican U.S. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher told The Associated Press. "When you look at what's happened, it's disgusting, inexcusable foot-dragging that's put tens of thousands of people in danger."
http://orangecounty.cox.net/cci/new...=article&id=D8SGH4PO0&_action=validatearticle
LOS ANGELES (Associated Press) -- As wildfires were charging across Southern California, nearly two dozen water-dropping helicopters and two massive cargo planes sat idly by, grounded by government rules and bureaucracy.
How much the aircraft would have helped will never be known, but their inability to provide quick assistance raises troubling questions about California's preparations for a fire season that was widely expected to be among the worst on record
It took as long as a day for Navy, Marine and California National Guard helicopters to get clearance early this week, in part because state rules require all firefighting choppers to be accompanied by state forestry "fire spotters" who coordinate water or retardant drops. By the time those spotters arrived, the powerful Santa Ana winds stoking the fires had made it too dangerous to fly.
The National Guard's C-130 cargo planes, among the most powerful aerial firefighting weapons, never were slated to help. The reason: They've yet to be outfitted with tanks needed to carry thousands of gallons of fire retardant, though that was promised four years ago.
"The weight of bureaucracy kept these planes from flying, not the heavy winds," Republican U.S. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher told The Associated Press. "When you look at what's happened, it's disgusting, inexcusable foot-dragging that's put tens of thousands of people in danger."
http://orangecounty.cox.net/cci/new...=article&id=D8SGH4PO0&_action=validatearticle
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GonzoReiter
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From FAA flight restriction notification:
7/1542 - PART 2 OF 6 CA.. FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS, SAN DIEGO .
A. ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATIONS WITHIN A 10 NMR AREA LISTED ABOVE ARE PROHIBITED EXCEPT FOR:
1. ALL EMERGENCY/LIFE SAVING FLIGHT (MEDICAL/LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIREFIGHTING) OPERATIONS DIRECTLY SUPPORTING THE CURRENT FIRE EMERGENCY, APPROVED LAW ENFORCEMENT, MILITARY AIRCRAFT DIRECTLY SUPPORTING THE UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE (USSS) AND THE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, APPROVED EMERGENCY MEDICAL FLIGHTS,
So, doesn't that mean that the fire fighting air support was not restricted?
If the water drops were suspended how long was it for and did it impact the fire fighting effort? What is the complaint of Bush visiting?
How did his visit halt disaster efforts?
Nova
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I think everyone was responding to information posted here (just as we always do). If Bush's visit did NOT affect the fire fighting, good to know!
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Based on the debacle in NOLA when the existing T.F.R. did indeed ground flights during GDub's flyover...it's my understanding that Lt. Gov. Garamendi pushed the FAA to issue the emergency T.F.R. I posted below for this current disaster in SOCAL.
I've no complaint about Bush visiting the area...if it helped, fine. If it didn't, that's for the locals to decide.
I don't think ihis visits hampered the efforts at all so I was just looking for some sort of link about it.
He makes enough mistakes on his own..he doesn't need any help from us lol.
I think the President should come here and look at the devastation. If he didn't show up he would be criticised for not giving a chit.
I am not much of Bush defender these days but of course he should check it out.
Nova
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Per this site (the reliability of which I cannot verify):
http://www.correntewire.com/bush_to_ca_burn_baybee_burn
Bush's visit WOULD HAVE disrupted fire fighting efforts and was strongly opposed by California officials. In the end, a compromise was reached, thanks to Lt. Gov. Garamendi, so that fire fighting efforts continued withOUT interruption.
This site is openly UNfriendly to Bush. While I don't blame them (for other reasons), I don't know that we can take this account as fact.
http://www.correntewire.com/bush_to_ca_burn_baybee_burn
Bush's visit WOULD HAVE disrupted fire fighting efforts and was strongly opposed by California officials. In the end, a compromise was reached, thanks to Lt. Gov. Garamendi, so that fire fighting efforts continued withOUT interruption.
This site is openly UNfriendly to Bush. While I don't blame them (for other reasons), I don't know that we can take this account as fact.
Nova
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Given what we know of this administration, I think it's perfectly possible that Bush was never told his visit might be a problem. To me, the issue is less character-assassination of this particular president and more a recognition that we need to value hardcore action over photo ops (regardless of who is president).
Bottom line it didn't hamper anything right? There was a logistical problem it was addressed and it's all good. So I just don't see how his visit was disruptive.
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GonzoReiter
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He was roundly and correctly criticized for his lackadaisical approach to NOLA and Katrina...someone wised up since then.
Nova
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It now appears it was not. And maybe that's the end of the story.
But maybe, as the site I linked suggests, the story is that California officials triumphed over the usual arrogance of the current administration. I'm not assuming that is true, based on that source, but maybe it's a story we'll hear more about as time goes on.
In the meantime, I certainly agree this is a peripheral matter to the greater issue of the fire itself. I wouldn't be discussing it if the main subject (fire updates) weren't already continuing on another thread.
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