OR OR - David 'Dave' Lewis, 46, Ashland, 4 September 2008

[Calcano]

I've spent some time familiarizing myself with David Lewis's murder and the other events around there at that time. I'm not sure I've encountered a case with so many red herrings and what seems like purposeful misdirection - from Troy Carney's murder (?) to the information that has surfaced online after the fact. It's hard to sort through what could be genuine lines of inquiry and what is 'out there' for the purpose of making the murder/s and goings-on of the area more convoluted than they were in reality. It's a little overwhelming without having the intimate knowledge of the area. That entire archived website gave me the <modsnip> and I've noticed the same writing style from that website used elsewhere online regarding this case. It may go without saying but I think someone very, very mentally disturbed committed these murder/s.

There's very little I can realistically say or do that will change a case's fortunes but becoming informed about them is my small way of honoring David's and Troy's memories. I hope their families and friends see justice. It is long overdue.

 

[Red Clover]

I've spent some time familiarizing myself with David Lewis's murder and the other events around there at that time. I'm not sure I've encountered a case with so many red herrings and what seems like purposeful misdirection - from Troy Carney's murder to the information that has surfaced online after the fact. It's hard to sort through what could be genuine lines of inquiry and what is 'out there' for the purpose of making the murders and goings-on of the area more convoluted than they were in reality. It's a little overwhelming without having the intimate knowledge of the area. That entire archived website gave me the <modsnip> and I've noticed the same writing style from that website used elsewhere online regarding this case. It may go without saying but I think someone very, very mentally disturbed committed these two murders.

There's very little I can realistically say or do that will change a case's fortunes but becoming informed about them is my small way of honoring David's and Troy's memories. I hope their families and friends see justice. It is long overdue.

Welcome to the thread @Calcano !

 

[Lilibet]

I've spent some time familiarizing myself with David Lewis's murder and the other events around there at that time. I'm not sure I've encountered a case with so many red herrings and what seems like purposeful misdirection - from Troy Carney's murder (?) to the information that has surfaced online after the fact. It's hard to sort through what could be genuine lines of inquiry and what is 'out there' for the purpose of making the murder/s and goings-on of the area more convoluted than they were in reality. It's a little overwhelming without having the intimate knowledge of the area. That entire archived website gave me the heebie jeebies and I've noticed the same writing style from that website used elsewhere online regarding this case. It may go without saying but I think someone very, very mentally disturbed committed these murder/s.

There's very little I can realistically say or do that will change a case's fortunes but becoming informed about them is my small way of honoring David's and Troy's memories. I hope their families and friends see justice. It is long overdue.

Thanks so much for joining us @Calcano! I share your impressions 100%. My husband and I have been binge-watching the wonderful old 1980’s-90’s Sherlock Holmes series. Jeremy Brett as Holmes will sometimes suck on his pipe and solemnly say “This case is much darker and deeper than I had realized, my dear Watson.” I feel that way about this case. But it’s real.
JMO

 

[Gemmie]

Would JCSO still have that day's video of the activities in and around the truck stop building and not just still shots of Troy Carney leaving from the Pilot truck stop on 9/1/2008?

Who else was seen at or around the Pilot truck stop 9/30-9/1 or 9/13-14 2008?

Any vehicles that looked like they'd been on the road for several days with 1-2 people living out of of it?

Who's familiar with Soda creek road and has camped there?

Planned & executed?
or
Heat of the moment?

SBMFF

I had a thought hit me from out of left field and that's this... The yellow tape that was mentioned upthread as being there the day of his murder, combined with the question about any vehicles that looks like they've been on the road for several days with 1-2 people living out of it (perhaps because they came from far away?).

And that left field thought is this... what if there was someone that traveled to Dave's property, that knows Dave and the area very well, specifically to flag the impossible to find road for someone hired to do the job that "sickophant cowardly day"?

I know, it sounds crazy, like something out of a movie, but so do other things about this case, so I thought I'd put that out there.

 

[Lilibet]

SBMFF

I had a thought hit me from out of left field and that's this... The yellow tape that was mentioned upthread as being there the day of his murder, combined with the question about any vehicles that looks like they've been on the road for several days with 1-2 people living out of it (perhaps because they came from far away?).

And that left field thought is this... what if there was someone that traveled to Dave's property, that knows Dave and the area very well, specifically to flag the impossible to find road for someone hired to do the job that "sickophant cowardly day"?

I know, it sounds crazy, like something out of a movie, but so do other things about this case, so I thought I'd put that out there.

Honestly @Gemmie, the whole thing is like one of the Saturday night “Film Noir” B movies we watch on Turner Classic TV. So your hired-killer scenario is not impossible. If it’s all the same person, they shot Troy Carney (for an unknown reason), then arrived at Dave’s (marked with yellow tape) where they shot him and attempted to cover up his murder by burning down his house (imitating Ed Krahel’s murder in Ashland several years earlier), and then moved on up the road to set fire to a cabin owned at the time by someone named Lewis (unrelated to Dave). As if that wasn’t enough, in our movie, this person returns and sets fire to Troy Carney’s campsite the day of Dave’s memorial! And the motive is never made clear. Instead, a hodgepodge of motives are presented on a confusing website! I’m not sure this movie plot would fly in Hollywood, but you never know.

Not to make light of these events, but we need Sherlock Holmes. I think he would quickly discern that Troy’s murder, the two extra fires and the confusing website are red herrings to distract and divert attention from Dave’s murderer. So far, it‘s been successful. But how would Holmes hone in on Dave’s killer(s) and their motive? Probably a small and seemingly insignificant clue holds the answer. I hope the real-life detectives can discover it.

JMO

 

[Dotta]

This last fire, on the day of the Memorial seems like an overkill.
Really!

 

[Lilibet]

This last fire, on the day of the Memorial seems like an overkill.
Really!

Yes it does seem like overkill (or overburn). Why would anyone risk being discovered setting a fire at the site of Troy’s murder ten days later? Did they realize they had dropped something incriminating, couldn’t find it, and so set the fire as extra insurance? Or was it a random homeless person lighting the fire by accident (it happens often enough on the Greenway)? Was it particularly windy that day and an arsonist hoped to start a fast-moving wildfire, as happened Sept. 2020 (the Almeda fire that burned from Ashland through Talent and Phoenix)? It just seems unconnected to the fires at Dave’s and the other cabin, despite the timing on the day of Dave’s memorial. A red herring?

 

[Dotta]

Yes it does seem like overkill (or overburn). Why would anyone risk being discovered setting a fire at the site of Troy’s murder ten days later? Did they realize they had dropped something incriminating, couldn’t find it, and so set the fire as extra insurance? Or was it a random homeless person lighting the fire by accident (it happens often enough on the Greenway)? Was it particularly windy that day and an arsonist hoped to start a fast-moving wildfire, as happened Sept. 2020 (the Almeda fire that burned from Ashland through Talent and Phoenix)? It just seems unconnected to the fires at Dave’s and the other cabin, despite the timing on the day of Dave’s memorial. A red herring?

Oh,
I think it is connected all right.
As a kind of final touch.
On Memorial Day.
Or a secret message.

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Oh,
I think it is connected all right.
As a kind of final touch.
On Memorial Day.
Or a secret message.

JMO

These are a few reasons that I doubt there is a connection between Dave’s murder and Troy’s.
—Troy was likely killed between late evening Sept 1 (the last date he was seen) and before 6 a.m. Sept 2. when his Mom couldn’t reach him. Dave was killed Sept 4, the day Troy’s body was discovered. So about 2 days apart.
—There is no evidence that they knew each other.
—No connection was made between the two murders in early news articles before the fire at Troy’s murder site.
—Although LE indicated they had evidence connecting the two, they have since said there is no connection.
—Troy’s Mom Linda had some interesting things to say starting here…OR - OR - Troy Carney, 44, Central Point, 4 Sept 2008
—She does not think there is a connection.
—On a broken link I posted on Troy’s page, LE said the forensics of bullets were different for Troy and Dave. OR - OR - Troy Carney, 44, Central Point, 4 Sept 2008

But all that being said, this is just my opinion, which could certainly be wrong.

JMO

 

[Red Clover]

SBMFF

I had a thought hit me from out of left field and that's this... The yellow tape that was mentioned upthread as being there the day of his murder, combined with the question about any vehicles that looks like they've been on the road for several days with 1-2 people living out of it (perhaps because they came from far away?).

And that left field thought is this... what if there was someone that traveled to Dave's property, that knows Dave and the area very well, specifically to flag the impossible to find road for someone hired to do the job that "sickophant cowardly day"?

I know, it sounds crazy, like something out of a movie, but so do other things about this case, so I thought I'd put that out there.

I don't think that sounds crazy at all @Gemmie
In fact, IMO, it seems totally possible. The yellow tape is a real conundrum.

 

[Dotta]

Are Police working on this case at all???

So many years have passed.
Every passing year diminishes the possibility of catching the murderer.

I'm really shocked that nobody was arrested

 

[Red Clover]

Motives for murder (generally) fall into four categories.
The four L's-
Lust
Love
Loathing
Loot

https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/sites/crimeandjustice.org.uk/files/09627250608553401.pdf

[...]
Motives
So, what can be said about the reasons for committing murder when there are so many types of murders? 'Motive' is central to police investigations. Although a conviction is possible without a motive being discovered, finding a specific reason makes it much more likely. Motives for murder can be condensed into four sets of 'Ls': Lust; Love; Loathing; and Loot:
Lust: a lover kills a rival for his/her object of desire; the 'thrill-killer' who murders people because he
gains a sexual payoff.
Love: the 'mercy killing' of a baby with a major deformity or partner with incurable cancer. Loathing: lethal hate directed towards one person (for example, an abusive parent), group (such as homosexuals or prostitutes), culture or nation (for example, Palestinians towards Israelis and visa versa).
Loot: killing for financial gain through inheritance or insurance pay-outs; a murder occurring during a robbery, or gang-warfare over the control of drug markets; employment as a contract killer or mercenary.
But finding a motive for murder does not go far enough to explain murder. Most people experience lust, love, and loathing, and seek 'loot' in the sense of wishing to be free from financial concerns. However, the vast majority of people do not commit murder.
[...]

I'm always trying to reverse engineer the events of that week in 2008.

IMOO-
I do think that Troy & Dave's murderer is one & the same.
I think the three fires & type of weapon and the Labor Day timeline tie the cases together.

It's been established by LE that Dave & Troy did not know each other.

@Lilibet is correct that Troy's mom tried to call him early morning of 9/2/2008 (approximately 6 am west coast time) and there was no answer and that he was not found until the afternoon of 9/4/2008.

There are video stills of Troy leaving the Pilot Truck around 6 pm on 9/1/2008. When he was found Troy was wearing these same clothes per @Troy's mom .

What was this person's or persons motivation to kill Dave and set two fires the night of 9/3/2008 or early morning of 9/4/2008 when he was found?

Lust?
Love?
Loathing?
Loot?

IF the same person killed Troy, why?
IMO, he seems like he was a super nice guy that was minding his own business. I don't think, IMO, that Troy was an intended target but was collateral damage.

My speculation has been that, IMO, Troy was an unwitting witness to someone or something at the Pilot Truck Stop in Central Point Oregon around Labor Day weekend 2008.

He was very careful about selecting his campsites according to @Troy's mom and was camping in just his sleeping bag in thick underbrush (JMO, in a blackberry thicket?)

So Troy had to have trusted the person for them to know where he was sleeping, that or the killer was incredibly observant of Troy and his activities. Why return to the scene of the crime? Why the 14th?

It seems like that was a real risk and yet this person's plan has worked so far...

As I've posted previously, I think the killer was familiar with Dave, his location, his routine and Jackson County and the backroads of Southern Oregon. I've also speculated about a specific route that, IMO, might have been used.

What the heck happened?
Who was out there in the Siskiyou mountains on a moonless night in early September?

Was Dave asleep and someone snuck in on him?
Did someone follow him home from the lake?
Was there a confrontation at the cabin at 18196 DIMR?
Did Dave invite the person(s) into his home because he knew them or was expecting them?

IMO, I think the vacant vacation cabin near the lakes was used on 9/2-9/3 to observe the comings & goings of Dave and to observe other activities in the area around the Lindsey Ranch, the quarry, Lily Glen & Dead Indian Memorial Road. A "down day" so to speak, to rest up, to gage the environment, who was in the area, make a plan... mark a road with yellow tape maybe...

ALL IN MY OPINION ONLY

There's still so many questions... We need someone dedicated and deeply curious to go back over this case.

 

[Red Clover]

Are Police working on this case at all???

So many years have passed.
Every passing year diminishes the possibility of catching the murderer.

I'm really shocked that nobody was arrested

Hi @Dotta
I agree with you 100%

From my conversations this year in 2023 with an ME at JCSO (Jackson County Sheriff's Office-Oregon) that had Dave's case but wasn't familiar with the details, I'm going to guess, no, nothing's happened with the case since Woody Pollock (retired) reopened the investigation for a short time in 2013. I was interviewed at that time.

The ME I had been communicating with, Christian Adams, email no longer works and another ME is associated with his direct number now. I've left a message with the new ME but haven't received a reply yet.

I think it may be worthwhile here in the near future to contact the Oregon State Police and see what they have to say.

 

[Dotta]

Motives for murder (generally) fall into four categories.
The four L's-
Lust
Love
Loathing
Loot

https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/sites/crimeandjustice.org.uk/files/09627250608553401.pdf

I'm always trying to reverse engineer the events of that week in 2008.

IMOO-
I do think that Troy & Dave's murderer is one & the same.
I think the three fires & type of weapon and the Labor Day timeline tie the cases together.

It's been established by LE that Dave & Troy did not know each other.

@Lilibet is correct that Troy's mom tried to call him early morning of 9/2/2008 (approximately 6 am west coast time) and there was no answer and that he was not found until the afternoon of 9/4/2008.
There are video stills of Troy leaving the Pilot Truck around 6 pm on 9/1/2008. When he was found Troy was wearing these same clothes per @Troy's mom .

What was this person's or persons motivation to kill Dave and set two fires the night of 9/3/2008 or early morning of 9/4/2008 when he was found?

Lust?
Love?
Loathing?
Loot?

IF the same person killed Troy, why?
IMO, he seems like he was a super nice guy that was minding his own business. I don't think, IMO, that Troy was an intended target but was collateral damage.

My speculation has been that, IMO, Troy was an unwitting witness to someone or something at the Pilot Truck Stop in Central Point Oregon around Labor Day weekend 2008.
He was very careful about selecting his campsites according to @Troy's mom and was camping in just his sleeping bag in thick underbrush (JMO, in a blackberry thicket?)
So Troy had to have trusted the person for them to know where he was sleeping, that or the killer was incredibly observant of Troy and his activities. Why return to the scene of the crime? Why the 14th?
It seems like that was a real risk and yet this person's plan has worked so far...

As I've posted previously, I think the killer was familiar with Dave, his location, his routine and Jackson County and the backroads of Southern Oregon. I've also speculated about a specific route that, IMO, might have been used.

What the heck happened?
Who was out there in the Siskiyou mountains on a moonless night in early September?

Was Dave asleep and someone snuck in on him?
Did someone follow him home from the lake?
Was there a confrontation at the cabin at 18196 DIMR?
Did Dave invite the person(s) into his home because he knew them or was expecting them?

IMO, I think the vacant vacation cabin near the lakes was used on 9/2-9/3 to observe the comings & goings of Dave and to observe other activities in the area around the Lindsey Ranch, the quarry, Lily Glen & Dead Indian Memorial Road. A "down day" so to speak, to rest up, to gage the environment, who was in the area, make a plan... mark a road with yellow tape maybe...

ALL IN MY OPINION ONLY

There's still so many questions... We need someone dedicated and deeply curious to go back over this case.

I agree with you

I feel ALL "incidents" are connected.

JMO

 

[Red Clover]

Are Police working on this case at all???

So many years have passed.
Every passing year diminishes the possibility of catching the murderer.

I'm really shocked that nobody was arrested

Also, and this is JUST MY OPINION, but I think the information that LE has been, let's say "fed" to them in the form of multiple red herrings over the years makes this a hard case to investigate and ME Chris Adams said as much.

There are so many "directions" that LE have been pointed towards, and Dave had legitimate beefs with some individuals.

There was something about Dave that when people's actions and behaviors failed to line up with his moral compass he wasn't afraid to say so and call someone out over their nonsense.

It makes him sound like he was a difficult dude who had issues with lots of people. In fact Dave was incredibly popular and good hearted. He would do anything for a neighbor, a friend or his boys but he also had boundaries and you best know where they lay.

Full disclosure: I'm on this thread as his friend and as a VI but I was far from his bff. We had a long time friendship (met in the mid eighties) we saw each other in town mostly where I worked and we talked on the phone pretty regularly. We visited each other from time to time but I didn't live on the mountain so I wasn't part of his daily life up there.

I have a goal to stay up at Hyatt Lake next year, this year, 2023, the campground was closed as they were doing utility work all season.

(*edited to add: I checked the prices on the controversial rental cabins/RV's that Dave worked on at Hyatt Lake Resort. They're WAY out of our budget.)

I have never spent any meaningful time up there. I want to see and feel and hear what was so special to him.

One thing I do know is that Dave would want his case solved.

I think it IS still possible to solve this dark, B movie, film noir mystery.

If we all put our heads together and sift through the clues, (ideally, LE would release more information) it is still very possible that it will all somehow come together and the answer will show itself and justice will be served.

I think we're as close as we've ever been.

WEBSLEUTH
BRAIN
POWER
ACTIVATE

​

"the arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" -Martin Luther King Jr

EBM for grammar & clarity

 

[Dotta]

Be careful when you go there.
This maniac might still lurk there
Go incognito

 

[Red Clover]

Be careful when you go there.
This maniac might still lurk there
Go incognito

Good plan!!!

 

[Red Clover]

We know a few things about these murders and arsons...

Per news reports and LE between 2008-2020
Troy & Dave were both shot

Both Troy & Dave were murdered in the middle of the night or early morning, during the hours most people are sleeping

Both Troy & Dave's locations at their time of death weren't well known

Dave lived up a long driveway with a locked gate

Troy was camping off the main path under brush

All three fire's were set or reported between 1-4 am

Both murder crime scenes were destroyed by arson

All three arsons and both murders were in Jackson County Oregon in the weeks of September 1-14th 2008

What else do we know?

 

[Sleuth2010]

Two killings, two arsons, same day, same killer?

Here's what else the two killings on the same day last year have in common: a middle-aged male victim, remote locations in southern Oregon, and crime scenes marred by fire. The similarities in the deaths of David E. Lewis and...

www.oregonlive.com

 

[Red Clover]

Dave in his jeep
Easter 2008

This is a photo of a photocopy of the photo from 2008 so it's not great but this is exactly what he looked like.
Sparkling eyes (behind the sunglasses, lol)
Big grin.

I gave the physical copies of a picture I had of Dave and several from the memorial to a member of the family in the weeks following his memorial