Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child**REVISIT FOR READING*

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Likely the stain that the A family noticed prior to cleaning was something that alarmed them enough to clean. BUT, even after all the carpet cleaning etc.....any fluids would have seeped down into the carpet backing. If anyone has ever steam cleaned pet stains and then witnessed them come back later, this is the same principal. Any fluids that were still in the carpet backing would end up coming back or attracting mildew, etc.... When I was in apartment management and we had a renter move out leaving pet stains, we had a protocol...... Ground floor apt had padding removed and replaced in those areas and the slab was treated with an enzyme treatment to prevent the seep back. If it was an upper floor apartment, the pad was replaced and the carpet was treated with an enzyme treatment. Likely the A's just had standard carpet cleaning products. In order to really remove all the seepage, they would have had to treat with some specialized substance that eats away at biological fluids. The point of my story is.......that while any outlines or discernable shapes may not have been noticed right away.....as those fluids seeped back and mildew or similar substances adhered to those areas a "shape" could have been more visible. Especially with photo enhancement.
 
MD MOMMY said:
There were soda cans..and maggots on the paper towel which contained adipose.
Click to expand...

Dont mean to be a PITA, but the report states that the paper towel contained something LIKE adipocere (gravewax).... It does not say that adipocere was found.

If you do a google search for the different acids, and their percentages that were present that drew the conclusion that something like adipocere was found on the PT , then you will see just how common the group of acids are in everday products.

Its all in the wording of the docs. I have learnt to use caution and re-read everything, cause I tend to miss things like this the first 5 or so times- LOL.

And since their were multiple food wrappings in that trash, from deli meats, pizza, etc I guess it possible (though not probable) that the maggots were feeding off of the minute remnants of food.

Wonder when we'll hear about the testing of the maggots? I think the maggots will be the key evidence that proves that Caylee was decomposing in the trunk.
JMO
 
AZlawyer said:
And rotting food and most decomposing animals are chemically VERY different from a decomposing human body. There would not be any reason they would smell remotely similar, and indeed they don't, according to everyone who has ever had the opportunity to compare the smells.
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Snipped by me for space:

Forgive my morbid curiosity, but I've heard lots of people say that human decomp has a signature smell, that cannot be mistaken for anything else- dead pets, roadkill, garbage etc.
I'm just wondering if the smell of a rotting pig is similar to human decomp since there seem to be many similarities between pigs and humans, and their decomp.
before anyone asks....NO....I do not think KC was driving around town with a pig carcas in her trunk, LOL, I'm just curious to know if the decomp smell is similar between the 2 species.
TIA to anyone who knows and answers.
 
butwhatif? said:
Snipped by me for space:

Forgive my morbid curiosity, but I've heard lots of people say that human decomp has a signature smell, that cannot be mistaken for anything else- dead pets, roadkill, garbage etc.
I'm just wondering if the smell of a rotting pig is similar to human decomp since there seem to be many similarities between pigs and humans, and their decomp.
before anyone asks....NO....I do not think KC was driving around town with a pig carcas in her trunk, LOL, I'm just curious to know if the decomp smell is similar between the 2 species.
TIA to anyone who knows and answers.
Click to expand...

Human decomposition is usually described as being Characteristic, i.e. not like any other.
 
AZlawyer said:
Right. He said it smelled like a car they had in which someone had committed suicide.
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This is going OT, but I believe that the towyard guy realised it was the smell of decomp in hindsight.
If he truely believed it was the smell of decomp while it was sitting at the towyard, he would have called 911. Like he and you have stated- he knew 'that' smell from the suicide car. But he couldn't have been too convinced it was decomp if he didnt report it to LE. And he still didnt report it after GA told him that 2 members of his family were missing! :waitasec:

JMO
 
butwhatif? said:
Dont mean to be a PITA, but the report states that the paper towel contained something LIKE adipocere (gravewax).... It does not say that adipocere was found.

If you do a google search for the different acids, and their percentages that were present that drew the conclusion that something like adipocere was found on the PT , then you will see just how common the group of acids are in everday products.

Its all in the wording of the docs. I have learnt to use caution and re-read everything, cause I tend to miss things like this the first 5 or so times- LOL.

And since their were multiple food wrappings in that trash, from deli meats, pizza, etc I guess it possible (though not probable) that the maggots were feeding off of the minute remnants of food.

Wonder when we'll hear about the testing of the maggots? I think the maggots will be the key evidence that proves that Caylee was decomposing in the trunk.
JMO
Click to expand...

I had noted and agree that the docs stated the substance on the paper towels was like adipocere. Look at the attachment on this post I submitted on a different thread. The Body Farm 'chemical extractions' results for the trunk mention in the conclusions "adipocere ratios consistent with decomposition".

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4247374&postcount=386"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Evidence[/ame]
 
butwhatif? said:
Snipped by me for space:

Forgive my morbid curiosity, but I've heard lots of people say that human decomp has a signature smell, that cannot be mistaken for anything else- dead pets, roadkill, garbage etc.
I'm just wondering if the smell of a rotting pig is similar to human decomp since there seem to be many similarities between pigs and humans, and their decomp.
before anyone asks....NO....I do not think KC was driving around town with a pig carcas in her trunk, LOL, I'm just curious to know if the decomp smell is similar between the 2 species.
TIA to anyone who knows and answers.
Click to expand...

As a matter of fact it is. It's very similar. But that's because it's very similar in a lot of ways. I've smelled both and rotting pig was almost exactly the same. Immediate gagging and can't get it out of your nose, mouth, memory. It's disgusting in words that can't describe.
 
MissJames said:
I remember the thread,but how was it determined that those things were not there? The book,stuffed animals,etc?
I also believe investigators seeing an outline in a piece of evidence is a bit different than posters looking at pics of the crime scene.This was an official murder investigation.
Click to expand...

Sorry, wasn't trying to say that there isn't a clear image where they can see the outline. The pic we have is just too grainy to tell, imo. Maybe they can.

Just pointing out that different people see different things (we didn't all see the same things in that other thread either). Especially when you have an idea in your mind of what you might think is there, ....which is obviously why they wanted to send it to an expert for his analysis.

I was convinced I saw a skull in the CS pics....and thought hubby would see the same thing since it was soooo clear to me after hearing other folks who pointed it out. I didnt give him any 'clues' because I didnt want his opinion tainted, and of course he didnt see it. But he thought maybe it might be a skull after I suggested it.( We know a skull was at the CS- just don't know if it was in the CS pics we saw).

I think if you handed this pic out to 100 different people, and asked what they saw, you would get at least 50 different answers/interpretations of what may have caused the stain and its shape.
The expert himself said it would be too speculative to theorise what could have caused the stain. Thats up to the Jury, or some other kind of expert.

Was the experts analysis/conclusion included in the dump? I only remember seeing his stipulations if he were to analize the pic. ( I only did a pretty quick scan of this dump.)
TIA
 
Valhall said:
I'm conflicted on this. One half of me says - yeah, she was hoping that the car would be stolen. On the other hand, when she arrived on the 30th to put gas in the car, and the car was missing, logic would have it (if her plot was to report the car and Caylee "missing") that she would immediatley report the car missing. She didn't do that. It makes the theory not make sense at that point.

Not to mention, I believe the car was locked wasn't it?
Click to expand...

....And had no gas. What car theif is going fill up the tank before they go for a joyride?
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXcpMm0DC68&feature=related"]YouTube - Cindy Anthony - Larry King Live 7/30/08 Part 2[/ame]

Larry King interview with Cindy and Jose, July 30 2008, mention of stain begins at about 5:20. Just thought I'd bump that old tape up in case anyone was interested.
 
kpalma715 said:
Or what I am wondering is, can choloform clean the blood stain and dna off? Wondering if this is what GA and CA did when they started possibly cleaning the stain in the car.
Click to expand...

I think originally the chloroform was thought to have been used to "knock her out" if I'm not mistaken I read that some where.
Do you think the sick twisted woman knocked caylee out ducttaped her mouth put her in bags and just left her there to die?
Maybe that's why she was in the fetal position, because she was still alive in the trunk and smothered?
Just a thought.

Edited to say, has anyone ever checked her car to indeed find that her gas gauge was broken? If so and it wasn't then her and the gas can and the time when she "stole" it from her parents could tell part of the story on its own.
 
butwhatif? said:
This is going OT, but I believe that the towyard guy realised it was the smell of decomp in hindsight.
If he truely believed it was the smell of decomp while it was sitting at the towyard, he would have called 911. Like he and you have stated- he knew 'that' smell from the suicide car. But he couldn't have been too convinced it was decomp if he didnt report it to LE. And he still didnt report it after GA told him that 2 members of his family were missing! :waitasec:

JMO
Click to expand...

Oh but he did recognize that smell. Enough to get him out of bed after he saw the report on TV the very night (IIRC) about Caylee and went dumster diving in his pajamas and barefeet to get the bag to give to LE.
 
TotallyObsessed said:
Oh but he did recognize that smell. Enough to get him out of bed after he saw the report on TV the very night (IIRC) about Caylee and went dumster diving in his pajamas and barefeet to get the bag to give to LE.
Click to expand...

Really, pajamas and barefeet? Where does it say that? Do you have a link, cause I missed that one?
 
butwhatif? said:
Snipped by me for space:

Forgive my morbid curiosity, but I've heard lots of people say that human decomp has a signature smell, that cannot be mistaken for anything else- dead pets, roadkill, garbage etc.
I'm just wondering if the smell of a rotting pig is similar to human decomp since there seem to be many similarities between pigs and humans, and their decomp.
before anyone asks....NO....I do not think KC was driving around town with a pig carcas in her trunk, LOL, I'm just curious to know if the decomp smell is similar between the 2 species.
TIA to anyone who knows and answers.
Click to expand...

Human decomp smells like nothing else. I'm not sure if it's instinctive or what but it's scent is so unmistakable that you can instantly recognize it. In fact someone who has never smelled it before..once they do they usually know what it is (in the back of their mind) even though they've never had contact with it till then. Afterwards they will also remember it. It's ingrained in your memory at that point

I've smelt it a number of times and I've also grown up on a farm. No dead animal or manure smells anything remotely like it. The smell also lingers. I've had a couple family members die and it took a little while before they were noticed. The houses smelled long after they were cleaned and renovations of the homes were done. Also any cloth items, bedding, clothing, mattresses, anything other then solid wood furniture need to be thrown away if they were even remotely near the body. Nothing will get the smell out no matter how well its cleaned.

After several cleanings if you put your nose to it and take a good whiff you can smell it.

Hope that can answer the question.
 
butwhatif? said:
Dont mean to be a PITA, but the report states that the paper towel contained something LIKE adipocere (gravewax).... It does not say that adipocere was found.

If you do a google search for the different acids, and their percentages that were present that drew the conclusion that something like adipocere was found on the PT , then you will see just how common the group of acids are in everday products.

Its all in the wording of the docs. I have learnt to use caution and re-read everything, cause I tend to miss things like this the first 5 or so times- LOL.

And since their were multiple food wrappings in that trash, from deli meats, pizza, etc I guess it possible (though not probable) that the maggots were feeding off of the minute remnants of food.

Wonder when we'll hear about the testing of the maggots? I think the maggots will be the key evidence that proves that Caylee was decomposing in the trunk.
JMO
Click to expand...

The report also said the substance on the napkins was consistent with human or pig adipocere. It was attracting flies which had laid eggs on the substance which had turned into baby flies (maggots) which were feeding on the substance.

The deli meat wrapper was for Oscar Meyer salami (the preservative-ridden kind) and it no longer contained any meat product.

An empty salami wrapper wouldn't smell like a dead body or leave a stain in the trunk.

Amy said KC told her about a bad smell in her trunk a couple of days before KC texted her saying she had gotten rid of the dead animal. If all KC had to do to rid her car of the awful smell was toss out the trash in the trunk, I think she would have done it right when the smell was noticed. That would have been easy. There were dumpsters at Tony's trash complex. Looks like KC disposed of what she thought was smelling and kept the bag of trash.

jmo
 
Heroine said:
I think originally the chloroform was thought to have been used to "knock her out" if I'm not mistaken I read that some where.
Do you think the sick twisted woman knocked caylee out ducttaped her mouth put her in bags and just left her there to die?
Maybe that's why she was in the fetal position, because she was still alive in the trunk and smothered?
Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Snipped for brevity-

I think that is exactly what she did. (in my own humble opinion) I suspect she gave her enough chloroform to kill her and the duct tape was just in case it didn't.
 
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