"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand? #2

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GUILTY
PREMEDITATED

Caylee alive afternoon of June 16th, 2008, never seen again after that, Caysee seen on video within hours after that sighting

31 days

Lies

Internet searches, & Myspace set up with the Dora Doll

Huge cover up by family

The timeline no longer allows for accident
 
This is a gruesome subject. However, my mother died at home. My sister who was a nurse tied a scarf under her jaw so that the mortician would not have to break the jaw. She said it had been a custom for many years for patients who died at home and had a private nurse.

I'm so sorry about your mother.

"Rigor mortis can be used to help estimate time of death. The onset of rigor mortis may range from 10 minutes to several hours, depending on factors including temperature. Maximum stiffness is reached around 12-24 hours post mortem. Facial muscles are affected first, with the rigor then spreading to other parts of the body. The joints are stiff for 1-3 days, but after this time general tissue decay and leaking of lysosomal intracellular digestive enzymes will cause the muscles to relax."
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/biochemistry/a/aa061903a.htm
 
This is a gruesome subject. However, my mother died at home. My sister who was a nurse tied a scarf under her jaw so that the mortician would not have to break the jaw. She said it had been a custom for many years for patients who died at home and had a private nurse.

Manny I am so sorry about your mother. The custom came from the fact that after rigor sets in, the limbs, jaw etc, cannot be moved for 72 hrs. If someone wants a funeral within that time window, you must make sure the body is in a reasonable position. After that period, the body relaxes again and can be moved in any position required.

Having been around far too much death, I can tell you, in a warm climate, jently closing the eyes or mouth if they are open for any reason, will close and keep them closed. There is no need to put duct tape across someone's mouth to keep it shut, unless they are alive when you put it on.

"Rigor mortis can be used to help estimate time of death. The onset of rigor mortis may range from 10 minutes to several hours, depending on factors including temperature. Maximum stiffness is reached around 12-24 hours post mortem. Facial muscles are affected first, with the rigor then spreading to other parts of the body. The joints are stiff for 1-3 days, but after this time general tissue decay and leaking of lysosomal intracellular digestive enzymes will cause the muscles to relax."
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/biochemistry/a/aa061903a.htm
 
I believe that KC will be found guilty of murder.

Here are what has led me to that determination:

*1, Last person seen with a living Caylee= KC

*2. Failure to report a 'missing' child. And to go along with that is an apparent lack of concern for the child, as evidenced by appearances in nightclubs and etc. Failure to produce an alleged 'script.'

3. Appearance of lying to investigators in instances not related to the disappearance.... as in her employment.

*4. Alleged lying to investigators about what happened to Caylee.... she reported that she left her with 'Zanny'. Yet no evidence has been found of a Zanny related to the case. Persons that KC has said introduced 'Zanny' deny the intro, calls alleged to and from 'Zanny' cannot be found. And no one seems to have met 'Zanny' or know anything about her. To me, this one is huge. You don't forget who you left your child with under any circumstances, and esp. not when your child is missing!

*5. Evidence of decomp found in KC's car that she continued to drive. Comments made to friends re the odor of the car.

*6. Abandoning the car. Instead of returning the car to her parents or even selling it, she abandons it. Why get rid of it, unless there is something in it that you don't want known? If she sold it, I would think that maybe it was a scam to get money, but she didn't even try to sell it. She dumped it.

*7. Type of tape found on Caylee's remains, may have been matched to tape used in the A. home.

8. Nightmares reported by Tone.

*9. Failure to participate in any type of search or to cooperate with others who were attempting to search.

*10. Changing stories. She left her with 'Zanny' at Sawgrass, she left her with 'Zanny' at the park. You don't ever forget the last sight of your child if she is missing.

11. And this is a biggie. I hate to admit it, but many of the family actions have confirmed my suspicions for me that KC was involved in Caylee's death. From the car cleaning and washing clothing, the denial of known evidence (it was a squirrel, no a pizza is one of my favorites), refusal to submit items with Caylee's DNA on it. All of this type of thing IMO smacks of a coverup, and you don't coverup when you have a missing child unless you know that cooperation will not help. And there is no need for a coverup if no one did anything wrong. The A.'s failed to take that into account when they began the denials and the appearances of coverup.

Most of this is my personal feelings and what led me to believe in KC's guilt. But the ones in astrisks are the ones that I think will have the most impact in court.

I am going to use a hypothetical situation:
The states attorney had a mountain of circumstantial evidence that a black 2009 Honda Civic was used to commit a crime. He called the top engineer in from the Honda corporation to testify as his expert. The SA had so much circumstantial evidence he felt this would be a slam dunk.
At trial the expert witness took the stand and the states attorney started his questioning by affirming the experts credentials, then went on to:

SA This key (exhibit A) was found in the pocket of the accused. We believe it was used to start the black 2009 model Honda. In your expert opinion is this possible?
EW It is absolutely possible, I personally used that key to start the black 2009 model honda.
SA In your expert opinion, is the color on the 2009 model black?
EW Yes
SA Was the model made in 2009?
EW Yes
SA (thinking to himself, this is too easy, absolute slam dunk), We have a gas can here (exhibit B) that contained unleaded gas that we believe was used to fuel the 2009 model. Is this possible?
EW Yes, unleaded gas is consistant with the accelerant normally used to fuel this model.
SA We believe this model was used on the interstate and a large number of bugs splattered on the windsheild. Could the windshield wiper commonly installed on this model have been used to clean these bugs off the bug splattered windshield?
EW Absolutely, when I used the key to start this model, I tested to see if the standard installed wiper was working properly and it was.
SA O.K. Almost done, the rest of these questions can be answered with a simple yes or no. Does this black 2009 Honda have tires?
EW Yes
SA A seat, brakes, taillights?
EW Yes, yes, yes.
SA A windshield, a muffler, a carburator?
EW Yes, yes, yes.
SA An automatic transmission?
EW Yes
SA In your expert opinion, a seat, brakes, tailpip, windshield, muffler, carburator and automatic transmission are all consistant with the items you would normally find standardly installed on a black Honda 2009 model.
EW Yes
SA So, based on alll the circumstantial evidence stated in your answers, we can say that a black Honda 2009 model was used in this crime.
EW Yes
Under cross examination
Defense lawyer Is it your expert testimony then, that your answers given to the SA were based on your examination of a black 2009 Honda Civic?
EW No.
Defense lawyer No, but the mountain of circumstantial evidence pointed out by the SA points to a black 2009 Honda Civic. What were you basing your answers on if not a black 2009 Honda Civic?
EW A black 2009 Honda DN-01 motorcycle.

So in my opinion strong circumstantial evidence may lead someone to a conclusion, but it may be the wrong conclusion therefore, for me I still cannot say Guilty or Not Guilty as of today I am still Undecided.
 
I've seen mouths fall open, at time of death-- in adults. That often doesn't happen to little kids, in my own experience. At least, I haven't seen it in little kids.

I think the problem will be getting the jury to buy that KC decided to tape up the baby's face, because the mouth fell open. Especially since all of the airways were occluded.

It wouldn't take three 6"+ pieces of industrial strength duct tape just to close the mouth.

Which is likely why KC never claimed accident, back when LE THOUGhT it was an accident. She'd have to lead LE to the taped-up baby.

Guilty.
Which is why she told T.L. in text message that if they ever found Caylee's body,guess who would spend eternity in jail.Brini I have been with 5 people when they passed,I agree with you. the only one to have the mouth drop was my grandmother.Their eyes remained closed also.
 
I am going to use a hypothetical situation:
The states attorney had a mountain of circumstantial evidence that a black 2009 Honda Civic was used to commit a crime. He called the top engineer in from the Honda corporation to testify as his expert. The SA had so much circumstantial evidence he felt this would be a slam dunk.
At trial the expert witness took the stand and the states attorney started his questioning by affirming the experts credentials, then went on to:

SA This key (exhibit A) was found in the pocket of the accused. We believe it was used to start the black 2009 model Honda. In your expert opinion is this possible?
EW It is absolutely possible, I personally used that key to start the black 2009 model honda.
SA In your expert opinion, is the color on the 2009 model black?
EW Yes
SA Was the model made in 2009?
EW Yes
SA (thinking to himself, this is too easy, absolute slam dunk), We have a gas can here (exhibit B) that contained unleaded gas that we believe was used to fuel the 2009 model. Is this possible?
EW Yes, unleaded gas is consistant with the accelerant normally used to fuel this model.
SA We believe this model was used on the interstate and a large number of bugs splattered on the windsheild. Could the windshield wiper commonly installed on this model have been used to clean these bugs off the bug splattered windshield?
EW Absolutely, when I used the key to start this model, I tested to see if the standard installed wiper was working properly and it was.
SA O.K. Almost done, the rest of these questions can be answered with a simple yes or no. Does this black 2009 Honda have tires?
EW Yes
SA A seat, brakes, taillights?
EW Yes, yes, yes.
SA A windshield, a muffler, a carburator?
EW Yes, yes, yes.
SA An automatic transmission?
EW Yes
SA In your expert opinion, a seat, brakes, tailpip, windshield, muffler, carburator and automatic transmission are all consistant with the items you would normally find standardly installed on a black Honda 2009 model.
EW Yes
SA So, based on alll the circumstantial evidence stated in your answers, we can say that a black Honda 2009 model was used in this crime.
EW Yes
Under cross examination
Defense lawyer Is it your expert testimony then, that your answers given to the SA were based on your examination of a black 2009 Honda Civic?
EW No.
Defense lawyer No, but the mountain of circumstantial evidence pointed out by the SA points to a black 2009 Honda Civic. What were you basing your answers on if not a black 2009 Honda Civic?
EW A black 2009 Honda DN-01 motorcycle.

So in my opinion strong circumstantial evidence may lead someone to a conclusion, but it may be the wrong conclusion therefore, for me I still cannot say Guilty or Not Guilty as of today I am still Undecided.

-----------------
A motorcycle does not have an automatic transmission,check any Dealer.
 
Guilty. No one else had motive to kill that little girl, creating two additional crime scenes in the car as well as the Anthony home, then dump her in such a place.
 
I am going to use a hypothetical situation:
<respectfully snipped>

So in my opinion strong circumstantial evidence may lead someone to a conclusion, but it may be the wrong conclusion therefore, for me I still cannot say Guilty or Not Guilty as of today I am still Undecided.

Websleuths members don't receive jury instructions before answering this poll. But, the real jurors of the case will be given Florida standard and special jury instructions. It is their sworn duty to follow those instructions in deciding the case; if they don't a mistrial could be declared. Once they are instructed, they will realize that in with the instructions on reasonable doubt and burden of proof, they have instructions on circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence stands on equal footing as qualified evidence with direct and positive evidence. The same could be said about direct, eye-witness testimony, which could also lead someone to the wrong conclusions. Sometimes the circumstantial evidence will be the more reliable evidence. We just have to trust that the jurors will follow the instructions given to them by the Court.
 
Guilty.
Which is why she told T.L. in text message that if they ever found Caylee's body,guess who would spend eternity in jail.Brini I have been with 5 people when they passed,I agree with you. the only one to have the mouth drop was my grandmother.Their eyes remained closed also.

*Text message from Casey to Tony- &#8220;If they never find her guess who spends eternity in jail?&#8221;

(pg 43 Amy Huizenga July 23 transcript)

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642949/Huizenga-Amy---Statement

Not that the semantics will change your mind, about guilt or innocence, but the implications of those statements have opposite meanings.
 
Websleuths members don't receive jury instructions before answering this poll. But, the real jurors of the case will be given Florida standard and special jury instructions. It is their sworn duty to follow those instructions in deciding the case; if they don't a mistrial could be declared. Once they are instructed, they will realize that in with the instructions on reasonable doubt and burden of proof, they have instructions on circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence stands on equal footing as qualified evidence with direct and positive evidence. The same could be said about direct, eye-witness testimony, which could also lead someone to the wrong conclusions. Sometimes the circumstantial evidence will be the more reliable evidence. We just have to trust that the jurors will follow the instructions given to them by the Court.

I trust that they will!! And bring back a nice fat guilty verdict!

Florida standard jury instructions


http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/instructions.shtml#




3.9 WEIGHING THE EVIDENCE

It is up to you to decide what evidence is reliable. You should use your common sense in deciding which is the best evidence, and which evidence should not be relied upon in considering your verdict. You may find some of the evidence not reliable, or less reliable than other evidence.
 
:decloaking:
Guilty 1st Degree Murder - Totally Premeditated
Long time listener, first time caller. As someone who has been on the wrong side of the gavel (some folks may 'recognize' me from other sites), I blame a certain counselor seeing dollar signs and an unstable (but mentally culpable) client for not taking a plea. Even though this is me first post here, there are a couple things in line with the topic I would like to share, from a former prisoner's perspective. MOST cases are circumstantial, regardless of what you see on TV. The few times the DA considers that type of evidence to be weak is in capital cases when the body has not been located. As a side note, over the years I have become fairly good friends with me one-time lawyer. He is pretty famous as a defense lawyer in these parts and I try to get him to comment on this case. For the most part, he refuses to, but he did bust out laughing reading the last two set of defense motions. When I asked about it, he would not tell me why. He just said that if his paralegal gave him those to sign, he would fire her. To wrap up this first-time post, I think that just what the public has been shown speaks for itself. I also feel that the DP being brought back on the table was not to scare the defense into re-thinking a plea. It, to me, is indicative of some very heavy artillery yet to be revealed. Thank you for reading this.
 
:decloaking:
Guilty 1st Degree Murder - Totally Premeditated
Long time listener, first time caller. As someone who has been on the wrong side of the gavel (some folks may 'recognize' me from other sites), I blame a certain counselor seeing dollar signs and an unstable (but mentally culpable) client for not taking a plea. Even though this is me first post here, there are a couple things in line with the topic I would like to share, from a former prisoner's perspective. MOST cases are circumstantial, regardless of what you see on TV. The few times the DA considers that type of evidence to be weak is in capital cases when the body has not been located. As a side note, over the years I have become fairly good friends with me one-time lawyer. He is pretty famous as a defense lawyer in these parts and I try to get him to comment on this case. For the most part, he refuses to, but he did bust out laughing reading the last two set of defense motions. When I asked about it, he would not tell me why. He just said that if his paralegal gave him those to sign, he would fire her. To wrap up this first-time post, I think that just what the public has been shown speaks for itself. I also feel that the DP being brought back on the table was not to scare the defense into re-thinking a plea. It, to me, is indicative of some very heavy artillery yet to be revealed. Thank you for reading this.

um...wow...who are you?
 
OT
Patty,
I am no one particularly special, I just post a fair bit at some of the more 'chit chat' Caylee sites. I always read everything I could here but never registered until it was bad-mouthed in an LE interview. Sort of showing support. If you click on me signature link, I write stories about staying off of drugs and out of prison :innocent: thanks for asking
 
Guilty-1st degree-premeditated murder. From the evidence released to us, thats the way I would have to go. Unless they show me direct evidence from another killer or a confession from someone other than the defendant, I am satisfied with my decision.
 
OT
Patty,
I am no one particularly special, I just post a fair bit at some of the more 'chit chat' Caylee sites. I always read everything I could here but never registered until it was bad-mouthed in an LE interview. Sort of showing support. If you click on me signature link, I write stories about staying off of drugs and out of prison :innocent: thanks for asking

IMO....there is no other perp..than KC...The evidence thus far and....Her mother has cemented my opinion...
 
1st degree murder, premeditated - guilty

I believe that Casey premeditated Caylee's murder for several months, but she and Cindy had a terrible fight on the evening of June 15th, and Casey flew into a rage and killed Caylee before her plans were completed.

The fight on the evening of June 15th precipitated all that followed.

After killing Caylee, Casey had to come up with a plausible explanation for Caylee's disappearance. Her explanation was solely for her parent's consumption. She never intended to have to explain to the police. Her parents always believed everything she told them, and didn't ever check her stories out to see if she was telling the truth. She was totally unprepared to be questioned and confronted by investigators. Questioned by professionals, Casey's lies unraveled quickly, within hours.
 
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