Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #17

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'His departure to Peru was a flight to avoid being committed to a clinic."
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Where was Joran before Peru? What had occured?

Had he been in Aruba & was severely depressed & suicidal over Paulus' death in Feb.?
 
May 2005 Anita was gone from Aruba...Business or pleasure.

Joran told her, "Mom, if you had been here, none of this would have happened."
 
faw720 said:
It was just easier for Anita to go into denial than it was for her to accept that Joran had problems.
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I am going to recount my experience of being "in denial" because, before this happened, I thought being in denial was a willful state. Now I think it is not something a person chooses, and that it is a response to a serious matter which is 100% unacceptable to the person it is happening to. I think the seriousness of the state of being in denial has been trivialized through its application to other states of mind that can be characterized as "willful ignorance".

This started because I wanted children so much. When I became pregnant with triplets, the first thing the doctors did was tell my husband and I all the bad things that can happen to triplets (premature birth, all sorts of serious and permanent physical problems). We were shocked that one minute we were told we were having triplets, and the next that this was not a good thing.

Two weeks later, my doctor tried to convince us to agree to a pregnancy reduction (they would remove 1 or 2 fetuses). We were horrified and immediately refused. I was 10 weeks along, and immediately put on complete bed rest at home, except for going to the doctor once a week.

When I was 21 weeks pregnant, I was hospitalized for preterm labor. My hospital stay lasted 6 weeks before my babies were born 13 weeks premature. They are in high school now and doing fine, so this isn't a tragic story.

I did not expect to give birth prematurely. I was told the babies could be born any time, and that the doctors were doing everything they could to try to get my pregnancy to last 28 weeks. My doctors talked to me, the nurses talked to me, I was taken on a tour of the neonatal ICU. I was given books to read about premature babies. I was very ill with pregnancy-related illnesses, to top it off.

I wanted these babies more than anything. No one and nothing could convince me they would be extremely premature and have the problems associated with that. I KNEW they would be born full term at 37 weeks, alive and healthy. Period.

Until the minute the first one was born, I was positive they would not be born until 10 weeks in the future.

Afterward, I talked to the doctors, nurses, and the hospital's social worker. The pregnancy-related illnesses I had immediately disappeared and I felt like my regular self again.

They said I had been in denial. I wanted those babies so much, alive and healthy, that my mind shut down to the possibility of anything else. It was not willful.

I know I am basing this on my own experience. But before I experienced being in denial, I thought people in denial were willfully ignorant, that they had their heads in the sand, so to speak. Now I think that no matter what facts are put before them, they will continue to be in denial until the truth smacks them hard.

All that said, I am in my 50s now, and I have experienced serious trauma in my life several times. Never before or since have I been in denial. I am a highly educated person who has the personality trait of facing problems head on, and doing something about them, so this can't be blamed on ignorance, mental weakness, or low intelligence level.

So, if Anita is or was in denial about Joran, I don't think it is willful ignorance of the facts. Whatever she thinks about her son, even the facts won't change her mind, unless something happens to force her to face reality. For me, it was the birth of my babies -- I mean, how could I continue to believe they would be born much later when they were already here?

So I cut Anita a lot of slack because I do think she is in denial.
 
annalia said:
I don't know the law in Peru regarding an insanity defense but in the US doesn't it mean that the criminal could not differentiate between right and wrong?

Joran's actions after the fact shows that he knew right from wrong.
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A sociopath knows right from wrong, but refuses to take the blame for his/her actions. One thing I find interesting is that a sociopath often has a parasitic lifestyle.
 
twinkiesmom said:
If you think Anita is just another of Joran's victims, then you need to do more research on this case...Read Beth or Dave's books....go on the internet and read the full 5 years with all the file transcripts, the confessions, media reports, etc..

IMO, this monster was made, not born this way.

I do not believe any word that comes out of Anita's mouth. If she is distancing herself from Joran, it is either because she is hiding the fact that she is trying to get him extradited to Netherlands or because she is afraid for her own safety going to Peru (or both).

Apart from the alleged GHB assaults, a 17-year-old boy with a line of credit at a casino will develop a gambling addiction. The gambling addiction (crossed with drugs) fueled a continuous need for money to support it. Stephany's fate was sealed that night when she won at poker...Joran did not have enough money to leave Peru or even pay his hotel bill.

If Joran had confessed and served time for the crimes against Natalee (short stay in the cushy Aruban jail), he may have had an opportunity to be rehabilitated...instead he went off on an international crime spree and murdered Stephany.

I have no sympathy for parents who enable criminal conduct by their children. (Per Paulus: No body, no crime).
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I totally agree with your post. I think Joran has been getting away with murder (no pun intended) all his life and finally got caught. His father just recently died in February..only 4 months ago. Rut roh, now what?? He has to pull the insane card because he doesn't know what else to do. He is a spoiled brat that has always gotten his way. His father has been there to sweep his messes under the rug and his mother doesn't have the strength that Paulus had to hide the bodies!! Yes, Joran is a narcisstic psychopath, definitley a sociopath but these are personality disorders. Bipolar disorder is a mental illness that can be controlled with medication. Don't be surprised if all of a sudden he claims he's been SAVED in his little Peruvian cell. He will do just about anything now to get out of what he's done..Then, on to his next victim!
 
dolly1 said:
I don't have the number of the post in front of me. I read it on a previous thread. It was when posters were talking about Jorans' violence as a child: killing his dog and throwing a homeless man off a bridge. I'll try to find it for you if someone else doesn't come up with it.

I said Joran should feel he helped kill his father because Anita said he went down hill after his father died because he felt he had caused it. This was from her first interview with the Dutch paper. Here is the link to the English version of the Dutch paper. www.dutchnews.nl

Right now I have to take my dear one out to breakfast. He has no human children but he couldn't be a better dad to our 2 Standard Poodles. After working all day, on his feet, he walks them 2 miles, then add the vet bills. So, he get cards and a Doggie-Dad Day. Those who aren't dog people can say ewww and all the dog people can say awww what a good guy.
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Here's a link to the article stating Joran threw a man off a bridge....but it doesn't state anywhere that the man died. Also states that he saw a psychologist for abusing his brother:

There were definite signs early on that he needed help. I think his parents just didn't carry through on all the treatment / therapy / medication that he needed - IMO.


http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1386606.ece/Prototype_van_een_klassieke_psychopaat
 
FLNY said:
Here's a link to the article stating Joran threw a man off a bridge....but it doesn't state anywhere that the man died. Also states that he saw a psychologist for abusing his brother:

There were definite signs early on that he needed help. I think his parents just didn't carry through on all the treatment / therapy / medication that he needed - IMO.


http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/...eke_psychopaat
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I don't see the article. HELP! I see World Cup, UK History etc.
 
twinkiesmom said:
If you think Anita is just another of Joran's victims, then you need to do more research on this case...Read Beth or Dave's books....go on the internet and read the full 5 years with all the file transcripts, the confessions, media reports, etc..

IMO, this monster was made, not born this way.

I do not believe any word that comes out of Anita's mouth. If she is distancing herself from Joran, it is either because she is hiding the fact that she is trying to get him extradited to Netherlands or because she is afraid for her own safety going to Peru (or both).

Apart from the alleged GHB assaults, a 17-year-old boy with a line of credit at a casino will develop a gambling addiction. The gambling addiction (crossed with drugs) fueled a continuous need for money to support it. Stephany's fate was sealed that night when she won at poker...Joran did not have enough money to leave Peru or even pay his hotel bill.

If Joran had confessed and served time for the crimes against Natalee (short stay in the cushy Aruban jail), he may have had an opportunity to be rehabilitated...instead he went off on an international crime spree and murdered Stephany.

I have no sympathy for parents who enable criminal conduct by their children. (Per Paulus: No body, no crime).
Click to expand...

RNW sources who wish to remain anonymous say that Joran van der Sloot's mother is trying to manage her son's extradition to the Netherlands.

http://www.rnw.nl/international-justice/article/joran-van-der-sloot-open-jail
 
suzihawk said:
RNW sources who wish to remain anonymous say that Joran van der Sloot's mother is trying to manage her son's extradition to the Netherlands.

http://www.rnw.nl/international-justice/article/joran-van-der-sloot-open-jail
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Ooooooh. That would not increase her "good-standing" with the public. :( Talk about a public-relations nightmare...she needs to look at what has happened every time the A's open their mouths.

ETA: Then again, maybe she doesn't care one bit about the public and is still trying to enable her son while saying just the opposite.
 
All I hope & pray for is the truth of what happened to Natalee before he is killed in general population either in Peru or Aruba....
 
Deepak says to Joran, "Your own father...unbelievable." :waitasec:

(It is my opinion that Paulus had many addictions and secrets.)
 
Patty G said:
I don't see the article. HELP! I see World Cup, UK History etc.
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Oops...sorry. I just copied that link from a previous post I added yesterday. let me see if I can find the article again! be right back!!!
 
Patty G said:
Did the other forum validate that the posters were actually from Aruba or was it assumed they were because they said they were?
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I was at the very same forum 5 years ago & can answer your question Patty G... yes, it was confirmed by the Administrator of the forum that the couple of posters who said they were from Aruba actually were from Aruba (I think from their ISP address).
 
AVS interview reports coming up again on msnbc if you missed it earlier.
 
FLNY said:
Here it is:

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1386606.ece/Prototype_van_een_klassieke_psychopaat
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Thank you. I see that the statement about the drifter came from Peter deVries and the article is dated June 5, 2010.

Aggression
Also, Peter R. de Vries believes that there was a possible 'impulsive' action. According to him, Van der Sloot in his youth already struggling to curb his aggression. "He went to a psychologist because he abused his brother. Later he was arrested because he was a drifter had thrown off a bridge. He himself is not under control. "

Still looking for the article that a drifter was thrown off a bridge. I realize Joran being a minor and named left out etc.
 
EVIL PRINCE AND PRINCESS.........JORAN & CASEY

Both are Sociopaths.....twisting and blamimg every one but themselves.
 
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