Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #17

[FLNY]

Well, obviously he is wrong based on the police report and what Jean C stated as well as others. It has been reported that Stephany wasn't wearing her pants and shoes and the police report states she has on her Niki shirt.

Also, in his confession, Joran states that he removed her pants and shoes....not that that's a credible source, IMO!!

 

[Cottages]

Thank you.

I couldn't find a news media article indicating that Joran threw a homeless man off a bridge resulting in his death, and marked as the third person murdered by Joran.

I am also looking for the news media article that Joran killed his family dog.

IIRC, the homeless man/bridge issue came out in the statements to Aruba LE, which are on hollowaycase.com. It was in one of the statements by a friend, not VS family or the Kapole brothers. This friend was with Joran when the homeless man was annoying them.

 

[Patty G]

Also, in his confession, Joran states that he removed her pants and shoes....not that that's a credible source, IMO!!

True, but in this particular statement about what ROL claims that Stephany is not wearing the shirt, I tend to believe Joran saying he took the pants off. :crazy:

 

[Patty G]

IIRC, the homeless man/bridge issue came out in the statements to Aruba LE, which are on hollowaycase.com. It was in one of the statements by a friend, not VS family or the Kapole brothers. This friend was with Joran when the homeless man was annoying them.

OK, thanks. Maybe the year this happened will show up at the website. I like to read things that are printed rather then "someone says this or that".

 

[FLNY]

True, but in this particular statement about what ROL claims that Stephany is not wearing the shirt, I tend to believe Joran saying he took the pants off. :crazy:

And yet, the ROL photos show only one spot of blood on her shirt. If she was wearing it, I'd imagine it would be soaked with blood....so, I'm not sure what to believe at this point. Just another conflict to add to the pile in this case!!

MOO

 

[epiphany]

True, but in this particular statement about what ROL claims that Stephany is not wearing the shirt, I tend to believe Joran saying he took the pants off. :crazy:

Wonder how to account for lack of blood soak on her shirt. Perhaps, that was what Perper was trying to get across - brute twist of neck>blood splatter all over room (the trajectory)?

 

[nervous_nellie]

also i have been thinking about the accommodations at castro for jvds. if it is somewhat secure i think that his roomy "ospina" the columbian hit man probably has dollar signs in his eyes concerning jvds... i bet they all think jvds is wealthy and whoever is closest to him is going to benefit... who knows... i guess im just trying to see if there is any other side to this than DOOM...

 

[songline]

May 2005 Anita was gone from Aruba...Business or pleasure.

Joran told her, "Mom, if you had been here, none of this would have happened."

He knows how to say what you want to hear.
all con men do.

 

[songline]

I am going to recount my experience of being "in denial" because, before this happened, I thought being in denial was a willful state. Now I think it is not something a person chooses, and that it is a response to a serious matter which is 100% unacceptable to the person it is happening to. I think the seriousness of the state of being in denial has been trivialized through its application to other states of mind that can be characterized as "willful ignorance".

This started because I wanted children so much. When I became pregnant with triplets, the first thing the doctors did was tell my husband and I all the bad things that can happen to triplets (premature birth, all sorts of serious and permanent physical problems). We were shocked that one minute we were told we were having triplets, and the next that this was not a good thing.

Two weeks later, my doctor tried to convince us to agree to a pregnancy reduction (they would remove 1 or 2 fetuses). We were horrified and immediately refused. I was 10 weeks along, and immediately put on complete bed rest at home, except for going to the doctor once a week.

When I was 21 weeks pregnant, I was hospitalized for preterm labor. My hospital stay lasted 6 weeks before my babies were born 13 weeks premature. They are in high school now and doing fine, so this isn't a tragic story.

I did not expect to give birth prematurely. I was told the babies could be born any time, and that the doctors were doing everything they could to try to get my pregnancy to last 28 weeks. My doctors talked to me, the nurses talked to me, I was taken on a tour of the neonatal ICU. I was given books to read about premature babies. I was very ill with pregnancy-related illnesses, to top it off.

I wanted these babies more than anything. No one and nothing could convince me they would be extremely premature and have the problems associated with that. I KNEW they would be born full term at 37 weeks, alive and healthy. Period.

Until the minute the first one was born, I was positive they would not be born until 10 weeks in the future.

Afterward, I talked to the doctors, nurses, and the hospital's social worker. The pregnancy-related illnesses I had immediately disappeared and I felt like my regular self again.

They said I had been in denial. I wanted those babies so much, alive and healthy, that my mind shut down to the possibility of anything else. It was not willful.

I know I am basing this on my own experience. But before I experienced being in denial, I thought people in denial were willfully ignorant, that they had their heads in the sand, so to speak. Now I think that no matter what facts are put before them, they will continue to be in denial until the truth smacks them hard.

All that said, I am in my 50s now, and I have experienced serious trauma in my life several times. Never before or since have I been in denial. I am a highly educated person who has the personality trait of facing problems head on, and doing something about them, so this can't be blamed on ignorance, mental weakness, or low intelligence level.

So, if Anita is or was in denial about Joran, I don't think it is willful ignorance of the facts. Whatever she thinks about her son, even the facts won't change her mind, unless something happens to force her to face reality. For me, it was the birth of my babies -- I mean, how could I continue to believe they would be born much later when they were already here?

So I cut Anita a lot of slack because I do think she is in denial.

GREAT POST :innocent:
While denial is not necessarily willful. If someone is told EXMPLE your husband was seen with another women it is no longer unconscious, if you are told your kid is drinking it is no longer unconscious.
Joran was in trouble many, many times in his life and his parent just got him out of trouble now that is consciously avoiding reality and it is a willful denial.
I agree that sometimes, something can trigger for you to be in self protection mode, and way to overwhelmed to deal with something at hand right away. BUT once you know you have to take it on, and you cant shy away from it or it will get worse. IMHO parent know when a kid is not right, they just know.

 

[GetSmart]

I am not sure why he did not drug her, get what he wanted and then leave here in the room. I am sure he is very smart and knew he was not in Aruba where he can get away with chit.

I posted this last night and I really think something like this scenario is what happen.
Maybe she caught on to him trying to drug her... maybe he was trying to get drug in a drink or had already done it in the Jeep but she didn't want anything else to drink and wanted coffee or something like that and he JUST LOST IT!!!! Why won't anybody do what I want them to .. It isn't asking much geeeez I didn't want to KILL her I just wanted to drug her and steal her money and haul butt... she"d never catch up to me ..


__________________

 

[DollyPardonMe]

GREAT POST :innocent:
While denial is not necessarily willful. If someone is told EXMPLE your husband was seen with another women it is no longer unconscious, if you are told your kid is drinking it is no longer unconscious.
Joran was in trouble many, many times in his life and his parent just got him out of trouble now that is consciously avoiding reality and it is a willful denial.
I agree that sometimes, something can trigger for you to be in self protection mode, and way to overwhelmed to deal with something at hand right away. BUT once you know you have to take it on, and you cant shy away from it or it will get worse. IMHO parent know when a kid is not right, they just know.

I'm going to use the denial process as a mother, for myself. If my child would have done something like this, even with a troubled past, my first instinct would be NO WAY! My child could not do anything so horrific. I would have to go back to the way I raised my child and insist that he/she could not have done this. Then, as AVS, I would be going thru my denial phase. She doesn't want to think that her child could have done this. In my denial stage I would be left alone with my thoughts. But then, I would sooner or later, with all the evidence against my child have to come to the jury stage of my childs life and look at all the evidence. COULD my child have done this? That leaves me being the judge of my childs life and I would have to make a decision on whether or not I believed that this was at all possible. That's when I would have to talk to my child and make him do the right thing. IMO AVS has had a lifetime of being on the Jury..It's time to judge her son of his crimes and together with him do the right thing.

 

[suzihawk]

Has been reported that SFR's body was found not clothed in her Nike shirt and jeans (photos we have seen). My transcription, also reported by another transcriber that evening, was that VDS's white shirt was covered with blood; blood splatter all over the hotel room; blood splatter on Steph's Nike shirt; blood found on Steph's sneakers.

After it was reported that body was found not wearing shirt and jeans, and that was only splatter of blood on Nike shirt, some of us speculated - did she have another set of clothes, had she been wearing his white shirt to sleep, etc.

SNIPPED:
TERESZCUK: Yes. Those are Stephany`s shoes. That`s her Nike shirt. It`s her jeans. And they all have blood on them, but she wasn`t wearing any of these clothes. So it just -- it meant that the blood went everywhere in the room. It was a horrifically violent crime and it was just -- there was evidence everywhere. This is -- officials have told us this is her blood, and it`s everywhere.

TERESZCUK: Well, the clothes -- the jeans and the tennis shoes, when her body was found, she wasn`t wearing them. They weren`t near her. But the blood managed to splatter on them. It was on her shirt. It was everywhere in the room, from the photos that we have. It wasn`t just, you know, on her body. So this was an incredibly violent crime. It wasn`t just an elbow to the face and then suffocation. There was blood splattered everywhere.

And that`s why we showed thee pictures, why we published them, because we want people to see how violent this crime was. It wasn`t just a, Oh, I got mad at her and did a -- you know, a quick murder. It was incredibly violent.

http://www.cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/17/ng.01.html

I'm having a hard time understanding the vast descrepancies between the above and the other sources that say things that are quite contradictory. I'm just so confused. :waitasec:

I mean no disrespect to ROL as they've certainly scooped a lot of celebrity news before others. But I guess that's my point. Of all the worldwide news agencies, why would the Peruvian powers that be release this information to ROL? It just make sense to me.

 

[epiphany]

Perhaps, the one willing to pay the most, wins. Business.

 

[Sanny]

On this Father's Day, my heart goes out to both the Holloways and the Flores families as they must be remembering what it was like to have their daughters with them.

God Bless both families and let Justice be coming soon for Natalee & Stephany

 

[dolly1]

Deepak says to Joran, "Your own father...unbelievable." :waitasec:

(It is my opinion that Paulus had many addictions and secrets.)

Was this a secretly recorded conversation between Deepak and Joran in the car? After Natalie was missing? I guess what I'm wondering is, do you know where this conversation took place?

 

[dolly1]

I posted this last night and I really think something like this scenario is what happen.
Maybe she caught on to him trying to drug her... maybe he was trying to get drug in a drink or had already done it in the Jeep but she didn't want anything else to drink and wanted coffee or something like that and he JUST LOST IT!!!! Why won't anybody do what I want them to .. It isn't asking much geeeez I didn't want to KILL her I just wanted to drug her and steal her money and haul butt... she"d never catch up to me ..


__________________

I believe I read the police found two coke bottles in the hotel room? One diet and one regular. I have no link I just recall hearing or reading it.
I wonder if they were tested for DNA and drugs?

 

[epiphany]

I posted this last night and I really think something like this scenario is what happen.
Maybe she caught on to him trying to drug her... maybe he was trying to get drug in a drink or had already done it in the Jeep but she didn't want anything else to drink and wanted coffee or something like that and he JUST LOST IT!!!! Why won't anybody do what I want them to .. It isn't asking much geeeez I didn't want to KILL her I just wanted to drug her and steal her money and haul butt... she"d never catch up to me ..


__________________

Could there be traces of a date-rape drug found on carpet or in coffee cups, cola bottles/cans, etc., or doesn't work like that? IOW, not in her system, but elsewhere and we don't know yet.

 

[Cheewawa007]

I believe I read the police found two coke bottles in the hotel room? One diet and one regular. I have no link I just recall hearing or reading it.
I wonder if they were tested for DNA and drugs?

It's in the police report.

 

[doobiedoo52]

After catching up on my reading here since last night, I just have a couple of comments. Part of Stephany's finger was NOT missing. Here is the portion of the transcript from NG's June 7th show:

Let`s go down the body. Broken neck, blunt trauma to the torso. And as you see in this figure, that blunt trauma goes from just below the shoulders all the way down to the navel. Dark red bruising on the inside of her right elbow, the inside. What is that? Guarantee you that will end up to be thumbprints of her attacker grabbing her like this by the arms with such force, it leaves bruising on the inside of the elbow.

Put that diagram back up, please, Dana. As you can see, on her right arm, a circle on the dark red bruising. On the finger, her right index finger it looks like to me -- no, forefinger -- there is an open wound, likely sustained during a struggle. What does this say? This says she was fighting.

She is merely correcting her original observation of which finger had the wound on it.
I agree with whoever said earlier about the green bruising--it is old bruising--possibly soccer injuries to the feet. This also may explain her awkward walk.

I actually feel that the injuries detailed could be exactly as VDS described the attack.
If they were sitting on the bed with the wall to their backs on the computer. For some reason-whether it's an email or not, he ends up elbowing her to the nose. He is quite a bit larger than her and his elbow lifted could be at her face level. Head and nose wounds bleed profusely I might add. He turns and begins choking her probably dragging her down on to the bed. The choking could produce enough pressure to dislodge an already injured eye. The mattress could have been moved when dragging her down onto the bed. Then he throws her to the floor and she hit the bed frame on her way down. He removes his shirt and goes to finish her off with smothering. Whatever amount of clothing she has on has blood on it as well as any laying close by. The position of her dead body produces the rest of the discoloration as the blood settles after death. The finger wound I still think could have been a key ring or something in her hand she tried to use for defense. It was probably forceable ripped from her finger.

As far as the robbery part or wanting money from her, I'm sure that was the original attraction she posed to VDS. He had several days to investigate her family finances. I still think it was an impulse killing--an act of rage. I don't think he had any intention of killing her--she would be a cash cow to him alive, if he got into her good graces. Too late now. All JMO.

 

[dolly1]

Thank you.

I couldn't find a news media article indicating that Joran threw a homeless man off a bridge resulting in his death, and marked as the third person murdered by Joran.

I am also looking for the news media article that Joran killed his family dog.

I couldn't find it either, maybe because he was a minor. I did find the post that mentioned beating the dog to death, Joran was supposedly 13. It's on Thread #5 Post #667. Another poster found the information about the man being thrown off a bridge, however, did not find information the man died.
The boy must have been a problem early on.