Discussion: Is TH responsible for Kyron's disappearance? #2(POLL ADDED)

[cluciano63]

Some people are using minor's names on this page...just FYI...

 

[BringKyronHome]

....BIG SNIP


TK on the other hand is an interesting guy. We can't really figure out what time he saw Kyron based on his comments...but knowing he saw him with other kids without Terri I think does support the after 8:45 timeline.

And the original timline that said he was seen at around 9 and in the late morning hours by someone other than Terri...and then it switched to 8:45 by Terri, is interesting to me too...makes me wonder if it's these kids that saw him, but it also makes me wonder if it was the chaperone too...because of Tanner's comments.
...Big Snip

This continues to puzzle me. If TK (referenced above) saw Kyron in the gym, he had to have seen him sometime after 8:35, when the buses arrived. I'm not strictly discounting that his parent(s) brought him in earlier, but if he rode the bus, then he had to have seen Kyron in a less than ten minute interval, if Kyron disappeared at 8:45.

While most timelines that day would be a little murky, surely TK knows if he went directly into the gym, and thus saw Kyron during that interval. If he went to his classroom after de-busing, then the time gets to be very brief for him to have seen Kyron prior to 8:45. I believe that the 7th and 8th grade classrooms are at the other end of the building from the gym.

It seems possible that he could have seen the white truck from the bus. So, if Terri was there when TK arrived, he saw the truck, put his book bag in his classroom, walked (directly?) to the gym, and saw Kyron there with his friends, then returned to his classroom before the last bell at 8:45. This timeline is awfully tight for Terri to be the abductor.

http://kezi.com/news/local/181456

I've looked at the building plan and the gym's windows near the parking lot, and considering the possibility that Tyler saw the truck at the same time he saw Kyron...I think it's a bit tough especially with all the projects & people in the gym.

So I've been trying to figure out how he saw the truck...especially with is being a pretty common type/color of truck. Kaine's truck, as far as I could tell from pictures, had not unusual features...so how is it that he is so sure it was Kaine's?

Now, just because he saw a white Ford F150 in the parking lot does not mean he saw Kaine's white Ford F150, so LE may not be putting to much stock into this.

The other thought I had was that he arrived in the parking lot with his parent roughly the same time as Terri and saw them getting out. OR he arrived when Terri was leaving...

I've also considered the idea that Terri actually left earlier than she says she did, and Kyron was wandering around with friends well before the 8:45 bell.

with all that said...

That a good point that he could have seen the truck from the bus...but still how would he have known it was Kaine's truck? That's as good as seeing it from the gym, ya know?

Anyway to figure out the bus drop off, do they drive THROUGH the parking lot, or drop off in the front????

 

[gwenabob]

I've looked at the building plan and the gym's windows near the parking lot, and considering the possibility that Tyler saw the truck at the same time he saw Kyron...I think it's a bit tough especially with all the projects & people in the gym.

So I've been trying to figure out how he saw the truck...especially with is being a pretty common type/color of truck. Kaine's truck, as far as I could tell from pictures, had not unusual features...so how is it that he is so sure it was Kaine's?

Now, just because he saw a white Ford F150 in the parking lot does not mean he saw Kaine's white Ford F150, so LE may not be putting to much stock into this.

The other thought I had was that he arrived in the parking lot with his parent roughly the same time as Terri and saw them getting out. OR he arrived when Terri was leaving...

I've also considered the idea that Terri actually left earlier than she says she did, and Kyron was wandering around with friends well before the 8:45 bell.

with all that said...

That a good point that he could have seen the truck from the bus...but still how would he have known it was Kaine's truck? That's as good as seeing it from the gym, ya know?

Anyway to figure out the bus drop off, do they drive THROUGH the parking lot, or drop off in the front????

1. Kaine's truck has some identifiable decals on the back window that could be used for identification.
2. Interesting point about the buses. There is no way, IMO, after visiting Skyline and looking around, that the buses could go into the parking lot to drop kids off. There is not enough room to turn around and it would be a dangerous maneuver with kids around. I am thinking they must park on the side of the road in front of the school. I wonder how long the buses sit there after the kids disembark? Do the drivers get off the bus to accompany the kids into the school? That would be a big shield for a kid sneak out. It might be easy to hide in front of the bus.

 

[BeanE]

1. Kaine's truck has some identifiable decals on the back window that could be used for identification.
2. Interesting point about the buses. There is no way, IMO, after visiting Skyline and looking around, that the buses could go into the parking lot to drop kids off. There is not enough room to turn around and it would be a dangerous maneuver with kids around. I am thinking they must park on the side of the road in front of the school. I wonder how long the buses sit there after the kids disembark? Do the drivers get off the bus to accompany the kids into the school? That would be a big shield for a kid sneak out. It might be easy to hide in front of the bus.

In the Skyline Elementary School thread (I'm pretty sure it's that one), someone found a document that says the buses park along the side of the building, the east side that has the portico.

 

[gwenabob]

In the Skyline Elementary School thread (I'm pretty sure it's that one), someone found a document that says the buses park along the side of the building, the east side that has the portico.

Thanks for that. It may well be the truth, but I have been there, and I have to say I don't see how the buses can turn around. The parking lot would have been full that day, and the cars park on opposite sides of the parking lot depending on how far toward the back of the school you go. I think it is against the "rules" for school buses to back up when there are children present, and there just would not be room to turn around. I don't get it.

 

[Morag]

In the Skyline Elementary School thread (I'm pretty sure it's that one), someone found a document that says the buses park along the side of the building, the east side that has the portico.

Well, I am relying on my memory here, but will look for it--the buses park in the rear now, after an incident of a woman being struck somehow while exiting her car. Cars used to be allowed to park in the rear before this accident. Apparently the bus was turning around in the back (I know, how do they do that in such a tight area?), and the person was hit. The info about the new parking rules was in the Screaming Eagle, or whatever the school bulletin is called. So if the truck was parked out front or on the side, he could have seen it from the bus. I'll try to find the information about the changes in the parking area- I'm reasonably certain of it.

 

[kathryann]

I understand there are underground groups of people who hide children they feel are being abused, I don't think this is what happened to Kyron, however are there other types of underground groups that maybe TH and DDS could have been involved in? I have a hard time figuring out how TH got Kyron out of that school unnoticed. I keep thinking that she and Dede may have also been involved with someone at the school in some underground type of group. Just grabbing at straws.

 

[Jo in Calif]

IMO the way Terry could have gotten Kyron out of the school, without being noticed, was to simply walk out with him. Why would that really stick in anyone's mind. I'm sure there was so much going on with the SF why would it seem odd at the time. Why would anyone be paying particular attention to them.

 

[kimE]

I'm not convinced Terri did anything to harm Kyron.
There can be a logical explanation for her behavior that day.

First of all Terri has not been named a suspect or person of interest.

Desiree and Kaine appear (to me) to be feeding the LE all their "suspicions" but LE has not been able to come up with true hard evidence against her otherwise she would be sitting in the county jail by now.

We have NO idea what questions she failed on the polygraph test.
(could it be that she lied about where she for those few hours? And if so, could it be possible that she was having an affair and lied about that because at that time she didn't know she was going to be targeted by the media and public as the guilty party)
Certainly at that point she didn't want Kaine to find out.

The last time Terri saw Kyron was in the hallway heading to his classroom.
Could he have forgot something in the truck or ran out after Terri to remind her of something and she had already pulled away. Could there have been a predator outside (or even someone he knew from the neighborhood) taking what he thought may be a good opportunity to snatch a child with the crowd that was there at the school for the science fair?

Terri was suppose to pick the project up from the school, but she didn't.
I can't begin to count how many times I was "suppose" to do something for my child when he was young and "put it off" until tomorrow for something as simple as not getting enough sleep the night before and needing an afternoon nap.
Pathetic, but true.

Kaine said that Terri using his truck was not out of the ordinary. Maybe it was something they did often and was no big deal at the time.
I know Kaine and Desiree both confirmed that the project was big enough that the truck was needed to transfer it back and forth.

When you think about travel time and dealing with traffic, and she the baby with her that whole day there doesn't seem to be a lot of time to do much before she arrived at the gym at 11:30.

I mean, we can dream up all kinds of stuff in our heads and make something out of nothing but the facts remain that we know very little about what evidence LE has on Terri.

I know how things "look" and it doesn't look good for Terri, but I simply can't do this to someone who may be innocent. I think she is a troubled woman. I think she may have been depressed with her life and her body but at this point I can't see this woman being homicidal. SO I will remain here on this fence. It really is a comfortable spot for me.

Oh and one last thing I want to point out and of course this is just my opinion and how I feel by watching the bio parents they do seem to be distraught and my heart goes out to them but in my opinion they are suffering horribly by guilt of their own behavior and what they did and did not do for this child in the last 7 years.
I'm not saying they did anything to hurt this child intentionally, but lack of parenting from the mom is weighing heavily on Desiree and I have to admit I would be feeling that way too. And the good Lord knows I am not judging her! I can only imagine what she is feeling right now.

Of course these are just my thoughts. I truly pray for the safe return of Kyron to his mom and dad and to the safety of his own home and bed.
May God watch over this child and keep him safe from harm and show him the way home.

 

[Calliope]

Some seem to forget that it wasn't just one polygraph that Terri flunked but THREE including one that she got up and walked away from. Some posts seem to suggest that LE has lied to Terri about the results of her polygraph. If that were the case, did they lie to her all three times? Has LE actually abandoned their investigation because Desiree has told them unconditionally that Terri is involved, therefore, they must do any and everything to arrest her? I don't think that is the case at all. As I have stated repeatedly, Terri is where she is at, i.e., the center of this investigation, because of Terri, no one else. She has no one to blame but herself. I'm not sure how people can excuse or justify her behavior and think that it's okay to attempt to hire someone to kill your husband or start a "sexting" relationship with a man while your stepson, the one you have supposedly raised, is missing; but obviously she has supporters out there and I guess that's a whatever floats your boat type situation. JMO.

I don't think anyone has said any of this is "okay".

 

[shorty42404]

Based on the fact that she has not spoken or tried to help in any way lately to find Kyron, I do believe she is involved. Even if you're being blamed, fine, defend yourself, speak up..or don't..BUT do keep helping in the search for your son that you raised and were the primary caregive for, for most of his life. If Kyron was truly her focus, if she truly felt sad, cared at all...she'd be helping. Maybe she doesn't know where he is or what happened, but, like KH, DY & TY.. I would think she'd be trying to get the focus on Kyron and keep helping to find him.

For me, if I was being blamed but was innocent, I would defend myself but not make myself the focus. I'd still be out there trying to find my child. So despite anything else, her character, mfh plot, the sexting, the polygraphs, the evidence LE has through cell, emails, computer..etc...her lack of involvement speaks volumes to me.

 

[Calliope]

Based on the fact that she has not spoken or tried to help in any way lately to find Kyron, I do believe she is involved. Even if you're being blamed, fine, defend yourself, speak up..or don't..BUT do keep helping in the search for your son that you raised and were the primary caregive for, for most of his life. If Kyron was truly her focus, if she truly felt sad, cared at all...she'd be helping. Maybe she doesn't know where he is or what happened, but, like KH, DY & TY.. I would think she'd be trying to get the focus on Kyron and keep helping to find him.

For me, if I was being blamed but was innocent, I would defend myself but not make myself the focus. I'd still be out there trying to find my child. So despite anything else, her character, mfh plot, the sexting, the polygraphs, the evidence LE has through cell, emails, computer..etc...her lack of involvement speaks volumes to me.

Not only would her attorney advise against this, but I don't think LE would want her involved either. IF she is guilty, who's to say she wouldn't take the opportunity to clean up evidence, plant false evidence, lead people in the wrong direction, move his body, etc.? I think this had a lot to do with LE adamantly refusing to allow random citizens to help in the search, too.

Of course if she's innocent but because of being essentially convicted in the eyes of ... well ... everyone, anything she found at this point would be considered suspicious and only hurt her defense.

 

[shorty42404]

Calliope I don't necessarily mean physically finding him, but just helping in getting his name out, making him the focus. Even prior to her hiring an attorney, it was all bout her. She was being treated unfairly, she failed the polygraphs, talking about the highlights in her hair being too orange, when she defended herself in posts it was all about her, nothing about Kyron, just constantly defending herself. I do understand your point though and thank you for sharing that. :smile:

 

[Donjeta]

There are other things that the family can do to help with the search efforts and keeping his face out there besides going out there and literally searching the woods themselves.

But I suppose she's kept Kyron in the news in her own way.

 

[kimE]

Some seem to forget that it wasn't just one polygraph that Terri flunked but THREE including one that she got up and walked away from. Some posts seem to suggest that LE has lied to Terri about the results of her polygraph. If that were the case, did they lie to her all three times? Has LE actually abandoned their investigation because Desiree has told them unconditionally that Terri is involved, therefore, they must do any and everything to arrest her? I don't think that is the case at all. As I have stated repeatedly, Terri is where she is at, i.e., the center of this investigation, because of Terri, no one else. She has no one to blame but herself. I'm not sure how people can excuse or justify her behavior and think that it's okay to attempt to hire someone to kill your husband or start a "sexting" relationship with a man while your stepson, the one you have supposedly raised, is missing; but obviously she has supporters out there and I guess that's a whatever floats your boat type situation. JMO.

Do you have inside information that none of us has heard yet?

We DON'T know that she failed one, let alone three.
She may have failed a question or two ..or maybe she failed every darn question....but we don't know what she was deceptive on and THAT'S the truth right now.

Someone came forward and said Terri tried to hire him to kill Kaine.
yeah. But is this guy a quack? He came out with that only after Ky went missing? OF course LE had to take that seriously. They tried to set her up and she called 911. Not sure what to think about all that, in all honesty.

She was sexting with a man. Ugh. Bad sign, sure.
Does that make her a killer or a child kidnapper? No.
Is that PROOF that she did something to Kyron? No.

None of us are going to solve this crime. LE is obviously having a hard time figuring it all out. So I think we should all chat about it but let's not hang this woman until we know all the facts.

 

[Ada]

I think leaving the backpack and jacket would make sense if Kyron was supposed to go to the doctor's appointment and then go back to school. If the teacher, rightly or wrongly, assumed TH had taken Kyron to the doctor's, then she would not have thought anything was amiss when his backpack was left at school.

 

[angelmom]

Some seem to forget that it wasn't just one polygraph that Terri flunked but THREE including one that she got up and walked away from. Some posts seem to suggest that LE has lied to Terri about the results of her polygraph. If that were the case, did they lie to her all three times? Has LE actually abandoned their investigation because Desiree has told them unconditionally that Terri is involved, therefore, they must do any and everything to arrest her? I don't think that is the case at all. As I have stated repeatedly, Terri is where she is at, i.e., the center of this investigation, because of Terri, no one else. She has no one to blame but herself. I'm not sure how people can excuse or justify her behavior and think that it's okay to attempt to hire someone to kill your husband or start a "sexting" relationship with a man while your stepson, the one you have supposedly raised, is missing; but obviously she has supporters out there and I guess that's a whatever floats your boat type situation. JMO.

The only confirmed thing in this list is the sexting. I'm not willing to convict someone on that.

IMO the way Terry could have gotten Kyron out of the school, without being noticed, was to simply walk out with him. Why would that really stick in anyone's mind. I'm sure there was so much going on with the SF why would it seem odd at the time. Why would anyone be paying particular attention to them.

It wouldn't necessarily stick out, but I think it would be a HUGE risk. All it would take is for someone she knew to see her and wave or stop to say hello or chit-chat and then she'd be nailed to the wall. Caught red handed. And she'd either have to abandon her plan or be in jail right now.

Some say she would have just abandoned the plan if she had been seen, but IMHO that is the kind of thinking where toddlers play peek-a-boo and think if they can't see you then you can't see them. There was NO WAY for her to be sure no one saw her, even if they didn't think anything of it at the time, even if she didn't notice them. Haven't you ever waved to a friend but they didn't see you? Or tried to catch up with someone who pulled away before they saw you? No one did see her, but there was no way for her to be certain. And if one person had watched her get in the truck with Kyron, it would be all over now.

Not saying it's impossible, I just can't make myself believe she is so stupid as to take that risk and get caught sexting, but is such a criminal mastermind that she pulled off this crime with NO physical evidence left behind. It doesn't fit.

That's why I'm still on this dang fence! It is not comfortable for opinionated me...I like knowing what I know!

We need a fence-sitting smiley.

 

[cypress]

The only confirmed thing in this list is the sexting. I'm not willing to convict someone on that.



It wouldn't necessarily stick out, but I think it would be a HUGE risk. All it would take is for someone she knew to see her and wave or stop to say hello or chit-chat and then she'd be nailed to the wall. Caught red handed. And she'd either have to abandon her plan or be in jail right now.

Some say she would have just abandoned the plan if she had been seen, but IMHO that is the kind of thinking where toddlers play peek-a-boo and think if they can't see you then you can't see them. There was NO WAY for her to be sure no one saw her, even if they didn't think anything of it at the time, even if she didn't notice them. Haven't you ever waved to a friend but they didn't see you? Or tried to catch up with someone who pulled away before they saw you? No one did see her, but there was no way for her to be certain. And if one person had watched her get in the truck with Kyron, it would be all over now.

Not saying it's impossible, I just can't make myself believe she is so stupid as to take that risk and get caught sexting, but is such a criminal mastermind that she pulled off this crime with NO physical evidence left behind. It doesn't fit.

That's why I'm still on this dang fence! It is not comfortable for opinionated me...I like knowing what I know!

We need a fence-sitting smiley.

And if she was going to take him to school and walk out with him, risking being seen and thus blowing her entire alibi, why not just say he was at home, playing in the yard, she went to tend to baby K and when she came back he was gone? In a lot of ways, that would've been easier, and there is much more precedent for it.

If she's guilty, why go to all the trouble of establishing this sort of alibi, only to risk having it undone if she's seen. Some hypothesize she told Kyron to meet her at the truck, but this is even more risky, because she's banking on him not telling anyone (and we already know he has trouble following directions) combined with the risk of someone seeing him get into the truck.

Also, with regard to TP, if Kyron was going to meet his mom at the truck, why did he tell TP he was going to see a "cool electrical project?" TP was one of the first witnesses to come out with information about that day, and I don't discount him simply because he used the word sub, especially when there was a parent volunteer in the classroom that day.

 

[BringKyronHome]

I think leaving the backpack and jacket would make sense if Kyron was supposed to go to the doctor's appointment and then go back to school. If the teacher, rightly or wrongly, assumed TH had taken Kyron to the doctor's, then she would not have thought anything was amiss when his backpack was left at school.

I absolutley disagree with this.

It was cold/rainy. If the child left school (for a short period or for the day) his coat should have gone with him. The teacher should have been concerned about this and so should Kyron have. To just have him walk out on his own, this would have been an obvious thing to grab before going. He was, afterall, only wearing a T-shirt. So if Terri instructed him to meet her out there, it would have been a natural choice to just grab the coat before leaving. This should have occured to the teacher too. But even if I can find some reason to excuse her for some number of hours because she was so sure he was a an appointment (but apparently didn't need his coat)...you gotta wonder where he is at some point when the coat & backpack are still there, it's friday and he hasn't come back yet. It's 8:45 and he's presumably on his way to an appointment. What's the longest appointment you've been to with your kids? I'm thinking that the teacher should have been very well alarmed by lunch time when he hadn't returned.

In my mind leaving the coat & backpack, sure makes it appear as though heshould be in the school, but it should have also appeared as though HE SHOULD BE IN THE SCHOOL! You know what I mean...like how the heck do you plan to plant something, but careful enough that it's not taken tooo seriously, ya know?

 

[cluciano63]

I think the backpacks and jackets were all stowed in the back of the room, according to one photo, so there is no reason the teacher would have noticed Kyron's if they were there all day (and we do not have confirmation of this, as far as I know. Only the statement from Terri's mom that the items were put in the classroom.)