All About Chloroform#2

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From Wikipedia [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroform[/ame]


Inadvertent formation of chloroform

The haloform reaction can also occur inadvertently in domestic settings. Sodium hypochlorite solution (chlorine bleach) mixed with common household liquids such as acetone, butanone, ethanol, or isopropyl alcohol can produce some chloroform, in addition to other compounds such as chloroacetone, or dichloroacetone.



isopropyl Alcohol and Acetone are fairly common place in house holds. Rubbing alcohol and Nail polish remover. I have both in my own home. Although I dont have any chlorine bleach as I never wear white cause i cant keep it clean or be bothered to remove stains. (i have two toddlers)

By the looks of things, you can't buy Chloroform online or legally without a permit. But it doesnt look too complicated to make.
Apparently Pool Shocker or Pool bleach would be a start
 
This is what I was hoping to hear about today--wanted JA to ask about other chemicals that could have combined in the trunk to produce what Dr. Vass at least found to be surprising levels of chloroform in the trunk liner sample he received....

But perhaps we must wait til trial for this?
 
Listening to various blogtalk shows tonight, and there is another show out there where misinformation has been disseminated-MarinadeD was on the show, so if he happens to read here or maybe the hosts of the show do, I hope they see this thread...

Forget what LeonardP's silly theory was-the chloroform detected in the trunk is NOT A RESULT of chlorine in the pool mixing with Caylee's urine...

Why? Because the chemical the A's used in their pool did not contain chlorine.
 
question - could the uses of vinegar, chlorine bleach, and acetone within close timing to each other (minutes to hours) produce elevated levels of chloroform (enough to take it from ppt to ppm?) if the environment was sealed following the use of those chemicals? (sealed should be assumed to mean no sunlight was admitted but not that the environment was airtight).

I "get" some parts about the chemistry but don't understand others. I'm not sure if the answer to the above were "yes", if it might have qualifiers such as "yes, highly likely" or "yes, but highly unlikely".
 
I'm having a really hard time with the chloroform lately and please hear me out with this. From what I understand from the testimony given is that chloroform evaporates. We know for a fact that Casey's car was sealed from June 27th, 2008 (abandoned it at Amscot) until July 15th, 2008 (Cindy and George picked the car up). Between June 16th, 2008 (Caylee's murder) until June 27th, 2008... the trunk of that car had been opened numerous times and I would have to believe that some of that air would have escaped from the trunk.

I believe that Caylee was intially put in the trunk of that car on June 16th and driven around until June 18th-June 19th when she borrowed the shovel and attempted to bury Caylee in the Anthony home (the dogs alerting to the backyard). So the trunk of Casey's car would have had to have been opened twice that day. I believe that Caylee was thrown out into those woods off Suburban Drive on June 18th-June 19th. The trunk had to have been opened on either one of these days. The trunk also had to have been opened in order of Casey to attempt to clean the trunk (the paper towels with gravewax, etc...). I believe that Casey put Tony's trash bag in the trunk of her car whenever this happened. The trunk was also opened on July 24th, 2008 when George confronted Casey with the gas cans.

So the trunk of that car had been opened (allowing air to escape) at least 4 times between Caylee's death and her leaving the car at Amscot. Who knows how many more times it had been opened in Casey's attempt to get rid of the smell.

So I don't understand... how after all that time... and the trunk being opened and shut... being aired out for hours on end on July 15th and 16th... could there be that level of chloroform detected?

I am think that Casey used chloroform to attempt to get rid of any evidence in the trunk. That she drenched it in Chloroform and who knows what else... in order to get rid of the smell. She left the car at Amscot without gas (maybe she thought she would get blown up and why would she want to do that when she was living the "beautiful life) and possibly went back to get the car thinking that it would have solved her little problem and would go about her merry little way... except when she got back... her car was gone.

I googled "Chloroform" and in every site it took me to it is listed as a solvent. A simple dictionary search resulted in these definitions: 1) A usually liquid subtance capable of dissolving or dispersing one of more other substances 2) something that provides a solution 3) something that eliminates or attenuates something especially unwanted.

Casey did the original searches for chloroform on March 17th, 2008 (her favorite holiday... was she upset about not being able to go out because of her "snot head" Caylee?).

On March 19th, 2008 - Casey did the searches for the One Tree Hill Episode about the nanny kidnapping a child... this was her birthday! Very weird to me?

On March 21st - Casey's interest in chloroform peaks and she searches how to make chloroform. Neck breaking. Household weapons and shovel.

Premeditated much??

If she had planned to make chloroform her primary murder weapon... why would she be searching for neck breaking, household weapons, and shovel?

I also looked into what is used to clean up a crimescene and there is a machine called the Ionic Zone Ozone Generator that I guess had been used in the past (it is now unavailable) and chloroform is listed... I have no idea what it was listed for because I don't understand it? It states on the website that the machine "removes strong odors from unoccupied spaces (such as motel rooms and automobiles) in a short period of time. Acetone and Peroxcide (Casey's searches) are also mentioned. I think we would know from her computer searches if she ever did see these websites... but did she have access to other computers? Just wondering?

I guess I simply don't understand how the levels could have been so high with the amount of activity Casey had between June 16th, 2008 and June 27th, 2008. That is why I believe the chloroform may have been used after Caylee was deceased? As an attempt to get rid of evidence and the smell. It states everywhere that Chloroform has a "sweet" smell?

I don't know?
 
I'm having a really hard time with the chloroform lately and please hear me out with this. From what I understand from the testimony given is that chloroform evaporates. We know for a fact that Casey's car was sealed from June 27th, 2008 (abandoned it at Amscot) until July 15th, 2008 (Cindy and George picked the car up). Between June 16th, 2008 (Caylee's murder) until June 27th, 2008... the trunk of that car had been opened numerous times and I would have to believe that some of that air would have escaped from the trunk.

I believe that Caylee was intially put in the trunk of that car on June 16th and driven around until June 18th-June 19th when she borrowed the shovel and attempted to bury Caylee in the Anthony home (the dogs alerting to the backyard). So the trunk of Casey's car would have had to have been opened twice that day. I believe that Caylee was thrown out into those woods off Suburban Drive on June 18th-June 19th. The trunk had to have been opened on either one of these days. The trunk also had to have been opened in order of Casey to attempt to clean the trunk (the paper towels with gravewax, etc...). I believe that Casey put Tony's trash bag in the trunk of her car whenever this happened. The trunk was also opened on July 24th, 2008 when George confronted Casey with the gas cans.

So the trunk of that car had been opened (allowing air to escape) at least 4 times between Caylee's death and her leaving the car at Amscot. Who knows how many more times it had been opened in Casey's attempt to get rid of the smell.

So I don't understand... how after all that time... and the trunk being opened and shut... being aired out for hours on end on July 15th and 16th... could there be that level of chloroform detected?

I am think that Casey used chloroform to attempt to get rid of any evidence in the trunk. That she drenched it in Chloroform and who knows what else... in order to get rid of the smell. She left the car at Amscot without gas (maybe she thought she would get blown up and why would she want to do that when she was living the "beautiful life) and possibly went back to get the car thinking that it would have solved her little problem and would go about her merry little way... except when she got back... her car was gone.

I googled "Chloroform" and in every site it took me to it is listed as a solvent. A simple dictionary search resulted in these definitions: 1) A usually liquid subtance capable of dissolving or dispersing one of more other substances 2) something that provides a solution 3) something that eliminates or attenuates something especially unwanted.

Casey did the original searches for chloroform on March 17th, 2008 (her favorite holiday... was she upset about not being able to go out because of her "snot head" Caylee?).

On March 19th, 2008 - Casey did the searches for the One Tree Hill Episode about the nanny kidnapping a child... this was her birthday! Very weird to me?

On March 21st - Casey's interest in chloroform peaks and she searches how to make chloroform. Neck breaking. Household weapons and shovel.

Premeditated much??

If she had planned to make chloroform her primary murder weapon... why would she be searching for neck breaking, household weapons, and shovel?

I also looked into what is used to clean up a crimescene and there is a machine called the Ionic Zone Ozone Generator that I guess had been used in the past (it is now unavailable) and chloroform is listed... I have no idea what it was listed for because I don't understand it? It states on the website that the machine "removes strong odors from unoccupied spaces (such as motel rooms and automobiles) in a short period of time. Acetone and Peroxcide (Casey's searches) are also mentioned. I think we would know from her computer searches if she ever did see these websites... but did she have access to other computers? Just wondering?

I guess I simply don't understand how the levels could have been so high with the amount of activity Casey had between June 16th, 2008 and June 27th, 2008. That is why I believe the chloroform may have been used after Caylee was deceased? As an attempt to get rid of evidence and the smell. It states everywhere that Chloroform has a "sweet" smell?

I don't know?

----------

Hi Lola, I read somewhere in the Body Farm pages that (how can I explain this?) that chloroform I think settles into fabric etc.? I will try to find it.
 
I took a trip back into the photo archives today for this case and noticed as Caylee was going from the toddler stage to a 3 yr. old, she got noticably thinner in the face, arms and trunk of her body. The dark circles under her eyes become more pronounced to the point in some of the photos, it is very noticeable. I've done a few google searches to see what the symptoms of chloroform abuse are and all I've seen is eye irritation and damage to the eyes as just a couple of the symptoms. If we have any medical personnel on here that could shed some light on that, please help me to understand where those dark circles may have come from. I would also like to mention that in those particular pictures, Caylee seems to show apprehension, lack of a sincere smile and an untrusting expression on her face. Maybe it's just my perception but, I don't think so. Anyone? Can you shed some light on this?
 
I found a great link explaining the chloroform in DS. Interesting.

http://www.philippinereporter.com/2...s-liquid-fabric-softener-harmful-ingredients/

Should I check on fabreeze since we know there weren't many DS found in the car? That link does state the DS release these harmful chemicals when heated up. We know the trunk was hot.

Unless this information comes from the medical or scientific professionals, I cannot accept what the "Philippine Reporter" has to say about it. If it were that unsafe, we'd have had many more cases before this one that would have been fatal.
 
I'm not really finding a good link for the Fabreze but I did notice one site stated some of the ingredients are found in fabric softeners.
 
I took a trip back into the photo archives today for this case and noticed as Caylee was going from the toddler stage to a 3 yr. old, she got noticably thinner in the face, arms and trunk of her body. The dark circles under her eyes become more pronounced to the point in some of the photos, it is very noticeable. I've done a few google searches to see what the symptoms of chloroform abuse are and all I've seen is eye irritation and damage to the eyes as just a couple of the symptoms. If we have any medical personnel on here that could shed some light on that, please help me to understand where those dark circles may have come from. I would also like to mention that in those particular pictures, Caylee seems to show apprehension, lack of a sincere smile and an untrusting expression on her face. Maybe it's just my perception but, I don't think so. Anyone? Can you shed some light on this?

I would guess that if Caylee's mom were looking up neck-breaking, household weapons, chloroform in March and calling her child "snot-head" there was probably a lot of tension for Caylee during this time. What did KC say in those jailhouse tapes, "You don't understand, my whole life has been taken from me." Not, my daughter has been taken from me, I need to find her. She is only worried about her beautiful life. jmo
 
Unless this information comes from the medical or scientific professionals, I cannot accept what the "Philippine Reporter" has to say about it. If it were that unsafe, we'd have had many more cases before this one that would have been fatal.

All of them that I looked at showed the same ingredients, I just chose that one at random specifically for the list. I was tired of wondering if chloroform was in DS and fabreze. We can see why the DT is trying to use this which is what I kind of figured anyway. Now the only question left is how many to produce a mass amount like Dr. Vass said was present? We've heard all along that chloroform is in household cleaning products. If there was anyway that a few ds could cause a huge concentration of chl. in the trunk I would think the DT would have an expert testify to that. Maybe I can believe of high levels existing at the actual manufacturing plant but not what the DT is trying to pass off here.
 
Unless this information comes from the medical or scientific professionals, I cannot accept what the "Philippine Reporter" has to say about it. If it were that unsafe, we'd have had many more cases before this one that would have been fatal.

And I would imagine that they aren't that dangerous if they are shipped by the boxload in an unrefrigerated tractor-trailer. The driver would never get to his destination. lol
 
And I would imagine that they aren't that dangerous if they are shipped by the boxload in an unrefrigerated tractor-trailer. The driver would never get to his destination. lol

Good point LambChop! That gave me my chuckle for the day.:floorlaugh:
 
I would guess that if Caylee's mom were looking up neck-breaking, household weapons, chloroform in March and calling her child "snot-head" there was probably a lot of tension for Caylee during this time. What did KC say in those jailhouse tapes, "You don't understand, my whole life has been taken from me." Not, my daughter has been taken from me, I need to find her. She is only worried about her beautiful life. jmo

Oh, yeah! The old I, me, me and more me routine. I do remember.

I say chloroform or not in concentrations huge enough to be fatal, is not the cart nor the horse anyway. The decomp in the car is the issue and it got there either by means of "via chloroform, pre-chloroform or post chloroform", no matter how you look at it. I'm just not so sure the prosecution even needs this verification to try to convict.
 
Okay, while I don't doubt the use of chloroform, I am still trying to figure out what the SA has in their pocket to link the computer searches with Dr. Vass's high numbers in the trunk carpet samples :waitasec: ?
 
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