Why would the DT not use a mental defense?

[logicalgirl]

She's cold yes.

She's cruel yes.

Is she a sociopath? I don't know. I do think she falls within the cluster B group, but again, qualified psychiatrists said she doesn't suffer from a personality disorder. So I have no clue what she is myself.

Just my thoughts at this moment. I try not to waste too much time understanding KC because to be honest she is really mundane. She is no different from any of the other common criminals we read about on these threads everyday (well I read here just about everyday). Even lying to cover up a murder and never confessing to that murder isn't uncommon. What is uncommon is that she has had a lot of media coverage and her lies have been broadcast over the airwaves for 3 yrs now. But bottom line IMHO she is just like the rest of them and hopefully she will get convicted and serve a sentence that will keep her behind bars for a very long time. I don't believe that she could probably be rehabilitated. She's dangerous IMHO.

Do we actually know if ICA was diagnosed to be without a personality disorder? We know she has been diagnosed as being competent to stand trial, that is, not insane and knows right from wrong.

But a personality disorder doesn't qualify a person to be insane, however, I remember nothing about any information about a personality disorder being released. All I remember is Judge Strickland's raised eyebrows when he discussed her evaluation in court.

But, even if she were found to have a personality disorder - which I believe under the broad ruler being a sociopath falls under, isn't a personality disorder part often tried under "diminished mental capacity"?

I know HHJP reminded Baez several times as he was trying to slide the shrinks in the the guilt phase of the trial that diminished mental capacity can not be used as a defence in a capitol murder case in Florida.

 

[RR473]

I have always wondered the same thing. Would be MUCH better than the drowned and GA covered up the crime. Think about this...KC says "I left Caylee at the steps in front of Zanny's house" when the take KC to the house, she says "Zanny! WHeres Caylee??" and starts talking to herself. Then when she goes to Universal, she goes one step further and sits down in an office and says "here is my desk" and starts working. Etc.

I realize that after the lies, she could not retrack, but she could just stand up in court and yell "That is NOT my voice on those tapes, thats Janet! Go AWAY Janet!! Where did you take Zanny and Caylee???!"

At least they could save her life and she would spend the most of her time in a hospital. Hey it worked in Primal Fear.

Then she had to fool psychologists.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

For an insanity plea don't you have to prove that the person did not know that what he/she did was wrong? I'm not sure what Casey Anthony's issues are, but it seems like she at least knows right from wrong.

Exactly. Furthermore, the DT's theory that she lives in fantasy land is nonesense. She clearly knows truth from fiction, and that was demonstrated to this jury today when they listened to her interview with YM.

YM: So that was a lie?

ICA: Yes.

She didn't believe all this made up stuff she was telling LE...and THAT is painfully obvious to anyone with half a brain.

JMO

 

[TorisMom003]

If we think back to the lies that Casey has told I believe that a pattern will emerge. Casey tends to lie about things that will make her look more important, special, more interesting, whatever word you want to fill the blank in with. Just a few of those lies to show what I mean:

1. Casey has hired a "nanny" for Caylee. Not a babysitter as that is to common, but a nanny sounds better and more expensive to have as she claimed she paid the nanny $400 A WEEK.

2. Casey was dating a young man that had a trust fund, was wealthy, preppy, etc. A man like that must want Casey because of how special she is since most men like that will not want to date someone that is just "plain trashy".

3. Casey left her other phone, the blackberry, at work. A blackberry was seen as a status symbol. Her work is another one. An events planner. Rubbing elbows with wealthy people or important people.

Those are some just off the top of my head but they show what I mean. For Casey image is everything. Kindof like "fake it til you make it". Casey just never got to the make it stage.

Casey is not insane. Casey is just evil. Evil is out there in the world even though it is hard to accept. No one wants to think that a mother can kill their child. It goes against normal human nature. We tend to want to make excuses for those that murder, especially mothers that murder their children. Sometimes we just have to accept and realize that there isn't always a reason (such as insane, mental, etc) other than just plain evil.

MOO

 

[Oakley]

ITA. I think she could never manipulate GA. I believe GA always questioned her to CA which is why they had several fights over KC.

BBM Yes. And that is precisely why she has planned to do away with him, IMO. If you cross Casey, (and not believing her is tantamount to crossing her) then you are the enemy (worse than useless.) She truly is a spiteful b*****. Jose has a very similar personality, I've noticed. If he deems someone his enemy, he goes for the jugular. JMO

 

[BeanE]

The reason that the defense is not using a mental health defense is fairly simple and can be found in the Motion in Limine as to Testimony of Mental Health Experts filed by Jeff Ashton, where he states: The reports do not diagnose the defendant as suffering from any clinical or personality disorders as recognized by the American Psychiatric Association.

So if she does not suffer from any recognized disorders, her defense cannot raise any mental health defenses.

Richard, could it be that the good doctors did indeed arrive at a diagnosis (such as sociopathy), but deliberately did not include that diagnosis in the report? I don't mean lying - I mean just not including that information.

Could something like that be the reason for the trouble with the depo where both the state and defense called Perry, and the depo was stopped, and later Perry said something like "we all know what was in the depo"?

Thanks in advance -
BeanE

 

[Aedrys]

I honestly think she wouldn't let them. It doesn't help that Baez is so inept either. But I think this girl truly would not go down that road. In her mind, there is nothing wrong with her and she will find a way to lie her way out of this like she normally does. I think she sees herself as better than the witnesses, the SA, the jury, the judge, even her own defense team. She really thinks she's going to walk out of that courtroom a free woman.

This is the only area where I feel the tiniest bit a sympathy for the defense. I don't think Casey gave them much choice AT ALL on how to defend her. And with no one able to find anything mentally wrong with her, the defense was stuck with being told by Casey on how to defend to her. A competent attorney finds a way to defend a client despite how bad the client is. Baez just simply is not competent or decent and is failing miserably at defending ICA, who is probably one of the most undefendable clients on the planet.

Heck, I think he's STILL figuring out how to defend her - I swear, never in my LIFE did I EVER think I would hear an attorney say in the court room that he JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING to defend a client with. That just CAN'T be normal for any attorney to say! I about fell out of my chair at work. I really hope he is NOT an attorney after this case. He is such an embarrassment to every hard working, decent attorney out there.

But getting back to Casey, I think she totally drove this defense into the ground. She refused to take any responsibility or go with any mental defense. I think she gets more ticked at Baez each time he tries to suggest something is wrong her. I think that is why they are NOT getting along AT ALL. Casey just didn't leave any defense much to work with, and I think Baez is trying, and failing badly, to work around Casey's standards. Casey is doing a mighty fine job of getting herself convicted in this trial, and that's another thing I never thought I would see in my lifetime. I really think the jury wants to convict her NOW and be done with it. I mean, dayum, it's only about two weeks into the trial!

Casey is definitely her own worst enemy here. I really think she is evil and has no soul. If only psychology had an entry in the latest DSM about that! And there is this show on ID Discovery where this guy came up with a scale for murderers and serial killers. The show gives some info about murderers and serial killers and then he talks about where they fall on his scale (I think it goes up to twenty or something like that) - I am dying to know where Casey would fall on that scale!

She is not insane. She knows what she is doing, and she knows right from wrong. She doesn't give a carp. That guy that shot the Congresswoman in Arizona was declared incompetent for trial. I highly doubt Casey would ever consider herself to be in the same category as him. (And he looks insane too. He is creepy!)

 

[allycat1208]

Do you mean why does the JB not use the "not guilty by reason of insanity" defense? If the defense uses insanity KC would still get Life at least except in a mental hospital I believe instead of prison. I guess by going with an accident theory, KC has a chance of getting acquitted. I would think JB would need a psychologist to confirm that KC is indeed insane though. Is this true? Anyone?

 

[OneLostGrl]

Isn't sociopathy a personality disorder?
I think they didn't go for an insanity defense because she isn't insane. She knows right from wrong. Why else would she hide the body?
I also think there is a reason that the DT doesn't want the psych evals admitted. They probably show that she is without a conscious and is quite capable of killing her child.

yes, but apparently she has not been diagnosed as such- that diagnoses comes from people following the case who have never properly assessed her. Us saying that someone has a disorder doesn't make it so, kwim?

 

[scandi]

Every one of ICA's lies and bad deeds benefited ICA. Doing things that get you something in return is sane.

When KC needed a roof over her head she found one. She was able to feed and clean up after four sloppy, hungry young males. She managed a herd of shot girls. She could go out, socialize with and make a favorable impression on educated people of all ages and from all walks of life.

KC, like Scott Peterson, Brad Cooper, Michael Peterson, Drew Peterson, Susan Smith, Darlie R., Diane Downs, and more people than I can list in one post, erased an innocent who was in her way.

To people like the above, erasing an innocent is more in the category of making a career move than a dastardly deed. It isn't rocket science that KC's goal of catching a man who would take care of her the way her parents did without all the nagging would be easier minus Caylee. And her heart was going pitter-patter from exposure to the scent of a new man. Just like Scott Peterson didn't want to go through the expense and trouble of a divorce, KC didn't want the humiliation of her mother being right about her not wanting to take care of her own child. She'd lose face and that is something a narcissist can't live with.

KC killed Caylee because it made sense to her to do so.

That is the opposite of insane.

imo

Hi Jolynna, I so agree with you.

As we learned on MSNBC's Dan Abrams show during the Scott Peterson case, one common motive for murder is to get rid of whoever is a threat to the lifestyle they want to have. Evidently Caylee was a huge threat to Casey IMO.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Do you mean why does the JB not use the "not guilty by reason of insanity" defense? If the defense uses insanity KC would still get Life at least except in a mental hospital I believe instead of prison. I guess by going with an accident theory, KC has a chance of getting acquitted. I would think JB would need a psychologist to confirm that KC is indeed insane though. Is this true? Anyone?

I'll tell ya what- I'd rather do my time in a prison than in a psych ward of a prison or state "mental hospital".

 

[OneLostGrl]

My wife does that all the time. LOL

Ruuuunnn! lol Just teasin' ya :blowkiss:

 

[OneLostGrl]

I knew someone that was like that....none of us could figure out why she lied about everything, stuff that didn't matter, she lied about anything and everything, not to get out of stuff, she just lied and made stuff up, and to her it was real, there was no trying to explain to her that we knew the truth, she just kept going and going, it did turn that she was mentally ill, she claimed to see dead people and talk to them...one of the biggest, craziest lies she told us, was that she was driving down the freeway with her friend in the car and a drunk hit them and her friend died...it never happened, but she never backed down, she said she was raped, and become pregnant because of the rape...again, never happened, she reported it to the police...etc...it's mind bogling,, but because i've seen it first hand, i do believe the CA is mentally unstable, i swear, she could be this girl i knew,, identical..

I hear ya!

My mother has accused people of raping her for simply not wanting to date her any longer.. when she would get arrested she would try and pretend she switched into another personality, a child. She would steal from stores when we were with her, when caught she would try and tell them WE put the items in her purse or pocket or wherever she had hid it. She even convinced a doctor to remove her gallbladder when there was nothing wrong with it. She has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder- in MY mind she used to be about as scary as a human can be because of the extent of the lies, the ability to believe her own lies and to convince others her lies are the truth. All while knowing right from wrong. The human mind is an amazing thing!

 

[concentric]

And her heart was going pitter-patter from exposure to the scent of a new man. imo

Your entire post was excellent, btw. I have a question for you, because you make so much sense. Why was TL her next conquest? What did she see TL could give her? I was thinking she knew that he was gearing up for a good career in the music industry and meeting some movers and shakers in that field that might allow her to make some connections.

I know in the short term it was a roof over her head while hiding from the parents.

But, any thought if she had long-term plans in her usage of him?

 

[bookworm474]

Casey is a thief. She stole Caylee's Beauty turning it into bones.

 

[Turnadot]

The reason that the defense is not using a mental health defense is fairly simple and can be found in the Motion in Limine as to Testimony of Mental Health Experts filed by Jeff Ashton, where he states: The reports do not diagnose the defendant as suffering from any clinical or personality disorders as recognized by the American Psychiatric Association.

So if she does not suffer from any recognized disorders, her defense cannot raise any mental health defenses.

And there we have it, IMO.

 

[nitasch]

ICA is more than likely a pathological liar, but definitely not, mentally ill.

I agree she lives in the moment, mimics others etc... I have personal experience with a couple individuals such as this. Actually most politicians are able to pull this off and MOST people are blind to the fact they are playing to the moment... see how easy it is to get sucked in?

She is fit to stand trial, she is not mentally ill, she knows right from wrong, she is just deceptive and manipulative. THAT is a personality trait, possibly a disorder...but she is definitely mentally capable.

She may or not be evil.. that does exist, we have all seen it.. but it would take the true story of what really happened to the baby to make that judgement, which will never happen...that will die with ICA at some point.

 

[Justin Tyme]

No matter what she is or isn't - I wish they would supply her with crayons and a colouring book, I don't even mind if she goes out the lines ... anything but the painful staring at the screens and whispers.

I think that I read somewhere that she did have crayons but JB took them from her because she kept coloring his computer screen blue.:floorlaugh:

 

[Just Jayla]

They knew it would not work. For sure. Wasn't gonna happen.
They floated every other defense out there-which makes me :furious: that the jury has no idea that they have tried other lies to no avail, so certainly this is a lie-

They have tried Zenaida, Jesse, Amy...as kidnappers
They have tried the SODDI, like RoyK
They have tried to get rid of the death penalty through various methods, including blaming the prosecution for KC's predicament
They have attempted to get her lies out of evidence-those lies they are now so proud of
Now they are at the core, the family-they're out of other options

If they ever thought they could use an insanity defense, they would have hopped aboard that train long ago, especially under AL's tutelage.

 

[DairyGirl]

QUESTION: Does anyone think Baez knew from the beginning that Caylee "drowned in the pool" or was this something recent they came up with once they realized all the evidence was coming in and they had no other defense? In another way to ask...did Casey admit this from the beginning or just in the last few months or weeks? Sorry if this has been discussed before...I haven't been reading here much lately. As for her mental health...geez she is as crazy as they come!!! If Baez doesn't call someone to show that then he's just as crazy, IMO.

My opinion is that it started after the jail house letters fiasco. When it got out that KC accused LA of coming into her room. I think that is where the seed got planted. If this had been brewing before that then KC would have said more about GA abusing her and less about LA. GA had to be the abuser because he was the only Anthony who didn't have an alibi for June 16th, 2008. CA and LA had verified alibis and the DT knew that the jury would know that whoever killed Caylee had access to the Anthony house in order to get the items she was found with. It would have been an even bigger stretch for them to try and say that the nanny broke into the house to steal those things, although from what I remember, CA did try to fly that one by.
So GA, though process of elimination, was the only person that had access to those items who didn't have an ironclad alibi, throw in KC's sex abuse story, change the abuser from LA to GA and a new (ridiculous) story was born.
This is why I also believe that JB added that nugget about LA following in his father's footsteps, to add more credibility because KC had already accused him of being inappropriate with her.