So do we have any idea how her legs ended up bended like that?
If she was hanging 2 feet off the ground, as LE claims, why are her legs bend the way they are?
But we know she was already in rigor by the time police and fire department arrived on the scene. Which should mean she was already in rigor by the time Adam found her, since he called 911 soon after he found her. Would her legs even bend if she were carried?She ended up in the courtyard in (probably) one of two ways, either she was carried or dragged.
If she was carried, she may have been carried in the following way, (which would account for her legs being bent,) and deposited on the grass without straightening the legs.
I came across this picture which also addresses the issue of her legs being bent together or apart. I believe that unless she was fully on her side, which she was not, then her legs would be apart.
Sunnie you are NOT dense. You are a smart and insightful poster.Cynic, I know I am dense, but even if she died at three, as the ME and LE suggest, and hung for 3.5 hours, then there should be lividity in the feet and lower legs, correct?
I know that after only 3.5 hours, livor is not fully set, but some effects should have still been present, correct?:waitasec:
Please don't let my horrendous atistic skills dissuade you. I would say that RZ's left knee was either touching or within a few inches of touching the grass and her right leg was at an approximate 30 - 45 degree angle. IMO her upper back was in full contact with the ground.Thank you for the bottle demonstration and the pictures. It looked to me as if Rebecca was further on her side, but now I can understand the lividity on the back.
The autopsy report is unfortunately vague with respect to this. From the AR, “Coronado Fire Department personnel responded, felt rigor mortis in her jaw (no other areas were checked) and advised that CPR be stopped.”But we know she was already in rigor by the time police and fire department arrived on the scene. Which should mean she was already in rigor by the time Adam found her, since he called 911 soon after he found her. Would her legs even bend if she were carried?
The autopsy report is unfortunately vague with respect to this. From the AR, Coronado Fire Department personnel responded, felt rigor mortis in her jaw (no other areas were checked) and advised that CPR be stopped.
Also, At 2000 hours rigor mortis was marked in the upper and lower extremities, neck, and jaw. Livor mortis was posterior, red and fixed. Both rigor and livor mortis were appropriate for the decedent's position."
As you say, she was already in rigor, however, if it was at the earliest stages, carrying RZ with bent knees would not be an issue. (Rigor involving the knees may have been as much as a further 2, or so, hours away.)
Rigor mortis is progressive and generally follows a predictable sequence.
Two or three hours after a person dies the process begins and progresses through small muscle mass much more quickly than large muscle mass. As a result, it is first evident in the face, lower jaw and neck, followed by the shoulders, arms, legs, and hips. Within the arms and legs the pattern continues with muscles involving wrist and ankle movement first and then muscles that control elbows and knees.
According to News 8, when they reviewed the helicopter footage these photos are taken from, they said the footage was taken @ approximately 4:45 p.m., IIRC.
It still doesn't explain why her knees were bent after she was cut down & laid on the ground. IMO, her knees should have been straight, but I'm not an expert on rigor mortis. I wish Dr. Wecht would weigh in on this.
Tricia - we need another radio program (hint hint ).
Cut down and then laid on the ground to be contaminated?
I don't understand how a body once found like that would have ever been left unattended for these photos to have occured. The body would have been surrounded by photographers, forensics, detectives...SOMEBODY!.
So what gives? There is no one anywhere near the body which I find awfully strange as do the photographs themselves.
Cut down and then laid on the ground to be contaminated?
I don't understand how a body once found like that would have ever been left unattended for these photos to have occured. The body would have been surrounded by photographers, forensics, detectives...SOMEBODY!.
So what gives? There is no one anywhere near the body which I find awfully strange as do the photographs themselves.
I know Hound - there has been much outrage that LE left her body in the courtyard unshielded from the media helicopters & neighbors on roofs to take photos for 12+ hours after LE arrived on the scene @ 6:53 a.m. Furthermore, according to the autopsy report, the ME didn't arrive on the crime scene until 1914 hours (7:14 p.m.) - more than 12 hours after Rebecca's body was found bound, gagged, & hanged from the guest bedroom balcony. Outrageous.
You mean that LE doesn't have some sort of sterile tarp to lay a body on?
DIDN'T ARRIVE FOR 12 HOURS AFTER IT WAS FOUND??? (sorry for yelling)
Why?
You mean that LE doesn't have some sort of sterile tarp to lay a body on?
DIDN'T ARRIVE FOR 12 HOURS AFTER IT WAS FOUND??? (sorry for yelling)
Why?
One of the variables affecting rigor onset time is the ambient temperature that that the body is exposed to. In this case, the temperature outdoors was 60 degrees and RZ was completely naked. This would slow the onset of rigor. As a matter of fact, below 50 degrees it is said to be exceptional for rigor to develop.I do have a question for you. Two actually my friend. First, when do you think Rebecca died? Do you think LE has it 'right' at 3 am? Or do you think it was closer to when people heard screams, around 11:30?
Second, Do you think she died when she was hung?
I have been following a case of a woman who fell down a stairs. Her husband found her at about 3:30 pm, was declared dead at 4:02 pm and the ME showed up at around 11:30 pm. So, that's only about 8 hours. The story is in the Parking Lot.