MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #7

[Gardenlady]

However, that scenario could fit into every detail known about the case...taking the phones, knowing the house layout, knowing how to not frighten or wake the baby, knowing the dad's schedule, even knowing how soundly the rest of the family slept, being inside earlier to leave door unlocked, having access to garage door for entry or exit, not being noticed as out of place by anyone passing by, knowing the route to apartment dumpsters, etc.

If she was taken and transferred to someone else that the teen knew who wanted a child....she could still be safe somewhere.

jmo

Exactly, I completely agree, it fits every detail that we know. I just don't think a teen would be likely to "successfully" carry out snatching a baby and handing it off to someone else. I hate to say it, but I think if it's the teen, the more likely end would be some kind of thrill killing, or something similar. :cry:

But I will hang my hope on your hypothetical. Hurts too much to dwell on my alternative.

 

[matou]

I'm just getting up and just read this. Sory if already posted:

On Friday, a teenage neighbor of Lisa's parents was questioned by investigators and forensic experts took a DNA sample, a source told ABC News. That neighbor was apparently at the home the day Lisa vanished and also knew the access code to the family's garage.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/story?id=14695496

 

[Marah]

Who is Judge Jeanine? What channel will it be on and what time?

 

[BeanE]

My weekend predictions:

- LE will execute a search warrant on the home

- Family and friends will keep talking about leads elsewhere

- Family and friends will mention at least one sighting

- Mom will continue to say she's more than happy to talk with LE - if they call her. (She won't call them.)

 

[Shelby1]

Lisa Irwin Timeline

Monday October 3, 2011

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.

UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.

3620 block of North Lister 64117

CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011

Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.

UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.

Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG


~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

_____________________________________________________________________

​

Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)—Correction. One son—the 6 year old was asleep with the mom and a stray kitten he had found earlier in the day.

Father is electrician that works nights. This night was the first night he EVER worked at night.—Jeremy http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-aut...rch-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P

**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.

Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.


** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv

**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz


Next news conference sometime this afternoon.

2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.

**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.


Thursday October 6, 2011


**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.

**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:

~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)




http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.

**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”

**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.

**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.

***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lis...scussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story

**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4


Originally Posted by BeanE [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7196439#post7196439"]

[/ame]--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM

Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM

Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM

Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM


http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg


"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG


Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3


Friday October 7, 2011

(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we appreciate everything the police dept. has done, we appreciate everything everybody has done.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin mom: we don't know, which is why we need everybody to continue to look for her...because we want her home, we can't do this alone
21 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "he's a good father and he's good to me and he loves her and everybody loves her, but no, there's no way." (about father)
38 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's dad: hasn't taken polygraph but "if that's what it takes..."
3 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "what do you say when someone tells you that and you know you didn't do anything."
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: volunteered to take polygraph, told failed. Says that's not possible.
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: We don't care what anybody thinks, we don't care what they think, our concern is to find Lisa, our Lisa.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

#LisaIrwin's Mom: don't have hard feelings, not mad, this is what they (police) have to do.
5 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's Mom: police really nice yesterday, not like that the first time.
6 minutes ago


**Debbie failed LDT. Jeremy has offered, but LE said it’s not necessary.


Floor plan of Debbie and Jeremy’s home (thank you Carriebean)


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19070&d=1317999122

**a neighbor in the area also had her dog come up missing the same night. (maybe related, maybe not)

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml
**FBI cleared all the people that Jeremy and Debbie mentioned as possible suspects.


PER FOX NEWS REPORT AT 12:00 P.M.
***Call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.

**Debbie failed the LDT “MISERABLY”

** Jeremy at work constructing a new Starbucks (company? All Current Electric)

**Per the great grandfather (see the end of the following video at the 1:16 mark)


The GGFather then says "they are supposed to...with their lawyer offer some kind of statement to the press at a later time...(-00:19)

Then the reporter then says "...as you just heard, the couple has now hired a lawyer .....

http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating

Thank you to Hazel for finding this!

***ANONYMOUS TIP—LE searching Shawnee Kansas landfill.


http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7YeLYOn


**FBI: This is the second time they've searched the JOCO landfill. The first was Tuesday - hours after #LisaIrwin was reported missing.
10 minutes ago


**Searching landfill----possible connection to a dumpster fire at 4897 NE 37 st at 2:27 a.m. Tuesday, October 4. Dumpster less than ½ mile from Irwin home. Trash from fire been examined twice. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-pol...-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story


#LisaIrwin update: FBI not saying what, if anything, found at landfill.

**searching using metal detectors behind the Irwin house.

** possible sighting in California
http://www.kmbc.com/r/29420106/detail.html


Thanks to BeanE:

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin prayer vigil beginning now. http://img.ly/9bGB
12 minutes ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
I also asked #LisaIrwin's aunt if she or family members were getting any sleep. She said, "Not a wink."
38 minutes ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Walking around P&L District with #LisaIrwin's aunt as she passes out fliers with Lisa's picture.
1 hour ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Talked briefly off camera with #LisaIrwin's aunt last night. Asked how her brother (Lisa's dad) was holding up. "He's a wreck."
4 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
About to head out to 6pm missing person flyer hanging & 9pm prayer vigil for #LisaIrwin. Family plans to attend both.
4 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin RT @itsvann @CliffJudy Prayer vigil location has changed to Penguin Park off of Vivion Rd @ 9pm
5 hours ago

LindsayShively Lindsay Shively
Just watched a 'nat'l media crew' tape a missing poster to a tree, shoot it then take it down. Not ok. Not journalism.
9 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Family statement denied what police are saying, brought focus back to #LisaIrwin, and even thanked PD. Another statement planned tomorrow.
20 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
What does latest in #LisaIrwin case mean? PD strategy: pressure parents. At very least, KCPD thinks parents not as forthcoming as possible.
20 hours ago


Cliff Judy
@CliffJudy Kansas City
Reporter for KMBC 9 in Kansas City.
http://twitter.com/#!/CliffJudy


Saturday October 8, 2011

Re-cap—everyone cleared except for Debbie

http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-07/news/30255015_1_fbi-agents-kansas-city-police-landfill/2

**Possible new lead. Teenage neighbor being questioned. Also, DNA taken from teen. Neighbor was home the day Lisa disappeared and also knew the code to get into the garage.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/story?id=14695496

 

[davehead21]

I am heading to North KC to do a little shopping today. I am curious to see if there are any missing posters up. I will report back when I get home.

 

[GourmetSoy]

I just don't think it was this teenage neighbor. If it was I believe something would have come about by now. Someone tried to be careful and not leave anything behind, taking/disposing of cell phones even.
The parents trusted this neighbor enough to be okay with the fact that he/she knew the garage code. Maybe that person was over during the day, and maybe that was normal? If it was normal then you would expect this persons DNA to be found in the house and that could be why they took the DNA sample. Word got round that the DNA sample was taken and people ran with the theory the police are looking at a teenage neighbor. Could be that this neighbor was a babysitter of Lisa's even.

 

[JeannaT]

I'm just getting up and just read this. Sory if already posted:

On Friday, a teenage neighbor of Lisa's parents was questioned by investigators and forensic experts took a DNA sample, a source told ABC News. That neighbor was apparently at the home the day Lisa vanished and also knew the access code to the family's garage.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/story?id=14695496

Hmmm. Does this teenager seem to have an unusual interest in Lisa, or interest in babies in general?

 

[~n/t~]

My weekend predictions:

- LE will execute a search warrant on the home

- Family and friends will keep talking about leads elsewhere

- Family and friends will mention at least one sighting

- Mom will continue to say she's more than happy to talk with LE - if they call her. (She won't call them.)

It sounds like you don't believe this is a kidnapping? Am I reading you right? What do you think of the teen neighbour news? It sounds credible if he/she knew the code to the garage but then again, not sure about any one else's garage but mine is noisy.

 

[andalso]

A teen taking the child could go either way, I guess. I think we need to know more about this teen....
Having read your responses, I guess it does not seem likely that this is what happened. But, it could have started out as something like that and then gone horribly wrong somewhere along the line.
I'm (obviously) really not sure what happened.

 

[Gardenlady]

Have to go get some work done...thanks to all for the updates, timelines, maps, and the great thinking. Hoping for good news when I check in in a bit!

 

[wfgodot]

I think the possibility is still very strong that someone in the home knows what happened to Lisa, just based on the odds against a stranger perpetrating an infant kidnapping.

But, until proven, it's very important to defend the mom and dad - especially here on a victim friendly site.

 

[Bodhi]

You're right about that. We pour over info. and dissect things in and out. But there are so many things wrong with this case. The phones on the counter, just ripe for the taking, for instance.

Also, the mother's assertion that "she would go to anybody" is a red flag to me. She's pushing police and the public toward a certain theory with that statement, hoping that they will believe her daughter easily went with an intruder.

I have the opposite reaction to the "she would go to anybody" statement, natsound. I have one child who would not got to anybody except me or my husband. He was not exposed to a lot of other adults--he was not in child care, for example. He was very secure and well-adjusted in every way. It's just the way he is. My second child would only go to a few adults he saw frequently.

I have many neices and nephews, so I have been around a lot of babies. Some of them would indeed go to anybody as babies. Those babies are now extroverted young adults. The more introverted ones would not.

I just think it's a basic part of a person's temperment that is apparent early on.

Anyway, I think it's sort of a moot point if the baby was sleeping. Someone could easily pick up a sleeping baby and leave the house with her no matter what her temperment..

 

[andalso]

Reminder to all....be very careful who you give access to your home...and vice versa...be very careful whose home keys/code you take....imagine if this teenager ends up having nothing to do with this...how terrifying that this would all begin with something as innocent as knowing the code to someones house.
Just occurred to me, perhaps the teenager shared the code with someone else....

 

[my_tee_mouse]

BBM Not in KCMO. Still bagged and now we have a 2-bag limit. You have to get a special sticker ($2 a piece!) to put on extras. We do have an ample recycle program that is collected at the same time trash is and it is collected the same day (Fridays). Yep, still smooshed!

They tried that nonsense here a few years back and gave it up when people began throwing whole bags of trash out along the streets (sans any traceable items, naturally). Now we're charged based on the size of our container, and I believe you're charged extra if you pile your trash beside the container (thus encouraging people to "up" their container...and thus fee...size).

 

[NancyA]

Did anyone else hear on that video about the teen being questioned that the person had been at the home and also knew the access code to the garage??? Is this the first we have heard of some type of security system? I need more coffee...maybe I dreamed hearing that.

If it's like ours it's not a security system as such ie not attached to any kind of alarm system or anything, just a keypad entry pad on the garage outside wall to open the door, you need a PIN, and usually there's a remote control opener too. We used to keep our remote in the car until our neighbours' car which was parked on their driveway got broken into; the thief found their remote in the glovebox and used it to get into their garage, fortunately they keep the door into the house from the garage deadbolt locked at night so he didn't get into the house itself. I'm a bit paranoid since then so I always bring the remote in with me from the car and the last thing I do every night is check that the kitchen door from the garage is locked.

 

[BeanE]

I think the possibility is still very strong that someone in the home knows what happened to Lisa, just based on the odds against a stranger perpetrating an infant kidnapping.

But, until proven, it's very important to defend the mom and dad - especially here on a victim friendly site.

I don't think we need to defend anyone. I think objective analysis of actions, timeline, statements, etc is important in these cases. What's important to me is refraining from bashing people and impugning the characters of people.

 

[wfgodot]

I don't think we need to defend anyone. I think objective analysis of actions, timeline, statements, etc is important in these cases. What's important to me is refraining from bashing people and impugning the characters of people.

We differ in that. The only way I can keep an open mind here - just speaking for myself now - is by defending the parents.

Total agreement with second sentence, however. That is, in effect, a large part of defending someone in a case like this.

 

[Bravo]

Having been lurking here from the get go. I don't find LE accusing the Parents unusual. Many times we hear of Parents eager for LE to poly/question them etc. so they can move on. In my mind that's standard on LE's part and a normal reaction to your missing child. More often than not the Parent/s are found responsible. What i do find unusual is how vocal/reactive these Parents have been concerning the accusation. Just a point to ponder amongst other points that have us wondering.

 

[Bodhi]

What makes you say this? I'm not sure I agree with this...many kids today watch "Teen Mom" on MTV and want to emulate it by having kids of their own. I am hopeful that if this neighbor/teen did do it it's because they wanted a child...and therefore would not harm the child...
moo

I agree with you, andalso. I babysat a toddler every day for 3 hours after school when I was a teenager. I was enthralled with that child!

When I going through a rough period in my life, I would stop by my sister's several times a week. My neice was Lisa's age. She was always so delighted to see me. It was wonderful!

So I can easily see a teen wanting to take the baby to have someone to love her/him. Ten months is usually such a fun age and Lisa seems like an extremely happy baby.

I think that if a teen took Lisa it is much more likely that she is alive.