Conrad Murray Trial - Day Ten

[Thundar]

What time is it now in California?

I have been in an out all day ,but when I heard Smith say he never noted the propofol bottle in the IV bag I was surprized.

It's noon in California now. Or alittle after.

 

[borndem]

Coroner saying that the amount Dr. Murray says he gave him is not consistent with the amount found in his system.

Coroner is now throwing out the idea that MJ could have administered himself the propofol.

Rut-rho....it's starting to fall apart just an itsy-bitsy bit....

 

[Talina]

We need a nurse to explain if this is what was talked about on earlier threads. Spiked as in put into the saline bag and spiked onto the iv tubing to flow directly into MJs leg? So the entire 100 ml bottle just went into his blood stream?

Don't confuse spike with an action. The coroner is talking about a medical device called a "spike" that could have been used to create the linear cut to then allow free flow of the propofol, as opposed to a needle from a syringe to draw out smaller incremental amounts.

 

[Talina]

Rut-rho....it's starting to fall apart just an itsy-bitsy bit....

Yes, and the coroner went into great detail as to how MJ could not have administered this to himself. Much of what we have discussed in detail here on this forum. (i.e. the assumptions that you would have to make on MJs actions to be able to administer that amount to himself is just not possible. He'd not stay awake long enough to do it, among other issues with that whole theory)

 

[borndem]

Well from what I gathered by bits and pieces all it sounds like Def is really trying to play down Dr.M being inaccessible for 2 days following the death.

Yes - it may be nothing, but it's weird to me....Just what WAS he doing & WHERE was he doing it???

 

[Talina]

Jean Casaras is in the courtroom today. She just said on HLN that the jurors are taking a lot of notes (she stressed a lot) during the coroner's testimony.

 

[Talina]

Yes - it may be nothing, but it's weird to me....Just what WAS he doing & WHERE was he doing it???

Well, according to his attorney, he is the one that told him to turn his phone off and wait until he could meet with him. He apparently had another legal matter he was involved in all day Friday so told Dr.Murray to turn his cell phone off. He said this on the taped interview (the attorney).

Now..me? I suspect Dr.Murray was busy talking to his attorney, his office, cancelling the order for the medical supplies he wouldn't now be needing, getting rid of the gallons of propofol he had stockpiled, and whatever else he was able to clean up before the investigation got too far.

 

[katydid23]

I hope the jurors do not get fooled by the taped interview with Murray. He self servingly made himself sound so very caring and nurturing. The way he talked about looking after
Micheal's feet and his eyes and wanting to make sure he was all safe and healthy.

But all of that goes against his horribly negligent behavior that night, hooking him up to that IV without a monitor or any vital equipment and then leaving the room to talk to his girlfriends. I HOPE the jurors do not lose sight of that when they listen to his fake concern in the interview.

 

[Thundar]

Don't confuse spike with an action. The coroner is talking about a medical device called a "spike" that could have been used to create the linear cut to then allow free flow of the propofol, as opposed to a needle from a syringe to draw out smaller incremental amounts.

Thank you. I was thinking of the part of the saline bag that the iv tubing came from as being a spike. Do you know what a spike itself would look like? And did they find one in with all the drugs? I don't recall.

 

[2goaliemom]

Interesting article at this website about MJ toxicology report. Be sure to read the comments below.

http://lawmedconsultant.com/2575/toxicology-in-the-michael-jackson-manslaughter-trial

 

[Talina]

Thank you. I was thinking of the part of the saline bag that the iv tubing came from as being a spike. Do you know what a spike itself would look like? And did they find one in with all the drugs? I don't recall.

I don't remember anything like that being found but that means nothing to me. I'm sure there is quite a bit that wasn't found. IMO

I did a google search on a medical spike a few minutes ago and it looks like they are available with different types of ends on them for insertion or cutting into something. Some are pointed, some are angled, some are straight across.

 

[Thundar]

I don't remember anything like that being found but that means nothing to me. I'm sure there is quite a bit that wasn't found. IMO

I did a google search on a medical spike a few minutes ago and it looks like they are available with different types of ends on them for insertion or cutting into something. Some are pointed, some are angled, some are straight across.

One of the google search hits was a medical supply company and the picture showed an iv infusion set with spike. So maybe there is one in evidence with the iv infusion sets ordered from the pharmacy.

 

[Talina]

Interesting article at this website about MJ toxicology report. Be sure to read the comments below.

http://lawmedconsultant.com/2575/toxicology-in-the-michael-jackson-manslaughter-trial

Thanks for that link. Very informative and easy to understand.

 

[LyndyLoo]

We need a nurse to explain if this is what was talked about on earlier threads. Spiked as in put into the saline bag and spiked onto the iv tubing to flow directly into MJs leg? So the entire 100 ml bottle just went into his blood stream?

here is a youtube that shows exactly what they are talking about...Far to difficult to explain in words so you can visualize..

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhXG9ISvqGc"]MTSU School of Nursing: Spike and Prime Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Isabelle]

p: did you notice anything unusual about the rubber stopper in the 100g propofol bottle
c: yes
p: what did you notice
c: the center of the rubber stopper has more or less a linear opening in it. no needle punctures, just this linear opening
p: did you draw any conclusions as to what would have made that opening, but not since medical school
def: objection
judge: sustained until foundation is established dr knows
p: marking exhibits showing stopper

p: can you see to what you are referring to the linear cut
c: yes
p: what is this
c: in about the center of the stopper there is an opening from side to side
p: basically a cut or an opening going from where you point the circle demarcation it is within that circle
c: yes
(my note: it is clear on the photo there is a cut in the rubber)

p: now are you familiar with what a syringe needle marking would leave on this
c: yes
p: did you observe any syringe needle markings
c: no
p: are you familiar with what could have made this linear opening
defense objected,, judge overruled
c: i personally have used devices that could make this kind of opening,but not since medical school
p: what medical device
c: the medical device is called a spike, you would push a spike into the rubber stopper and then the propofol will flow out into the end

break for lunch break

Yes indeed!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Isabelle]

We need a nurse to explain if this is what was talked about on earlier threads. Spiked as in put into the saline bag and spiked onto the iv tubing to flow directly into MJs leg? So the entire 100 ml bottle just went into his blood stream?

Exactly! And the saline bag just acted as a device for hanging, since the propofol bottle does not have a hanging loop on it. Very creative dr. Murray is!

 

[Isabelle]

Don't confuse spike with an action. The coroner is talking about a medical device called a "spike" that could have been used to create the linear cut to then allow free flow of the propofol, as opposed to a needle from a syringe to draw out smaller incremental amounts.

The end of and IV tubing administration set does have a 'spike' on it and it is used for that exact purpose to spike through thick rubber stoppers. These spikes are approx 5mm in diameter with a large sharp beveled end, like a needle has only thicker.

 

[borndem]

Well, according to his attorney, he is the one that told him to turn his phone off and wait until he could meet with him. He apparently had another legal matter he was involved in all day Friday so told Dr.Murray to turn his cell phone off. He said this on the taped interview (the attorney).

Now..me? I suspect Dr.Murray was busy talking to his attorney, his office, cancelling the order for the medical supplies he wouldn't now be needing, getting rid of the gallons of propofol he had stockpiled, and whatever else he was able to clean up before the investigation got too far.

ITA -
Okay, I'll give the good doctor doing something with his phone -- I'm sure he was getting a lot of curiosity-killed-the-cat calls -- but let it go to msgs, just in case the LEOs wanted him.

And yes, indeed-y, he had to get rid of his super stash of milk -- it was too hot for him to try to make a bit of cash to black-market it (pity for him, huh?), and he was smart enuff to know it would soon be evidence if he didn't get rid of it. Yes, and it was gallons...can you imagine?!

 

[Talina]

The end of and IV tubing administration set does have a 'spike' on it and it is used for that exact purpose to spike through thick rubber stoppers.

Yes. I understood the question, though, to be how the propofol was used to spike the saline solution as in spiking a drink, so to speak. I just tried to clarify that is not what the coroner meant by using the word spike.

 

[tweezybird]

Is the trial due to resume? I just got in and thought it should have started again.