Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[Mikebr]

Yes, This!


I would love to know. By all accounts this woman worshipped this child. I am sorry I don't see it.

Did she love JBR like a daughter or like she loved her car or her pretentious french sounding names? Lou Smit let religion get in his way..man was not objective at all and invented the intruder evidence. the police were incompetent..but Patsy wrote that letter and the letter writer commited the murder...but we have discussed all this before..read thru the thread. welcome to the discussion.

 

[Whocanitbenow]

Did she love JBR like a daughter or like she loved her car or her pretentious french sounding names? Lou Smit let religion get in his way..man was not objective at all and invented the intruder evidence. the police were incompetent..but Patsy wrote that letter and the letter writer commited the murder...but we have discussed all this before..read thru the thread. welcome to the discussion.

I have been reading all day before joining and while it is your opinion that Patsy wrote that letter, It is not mine. I believe when looking at the case from both sides, there is no way the parents had anything to do with this child's brutal death. To questions a mother's love, or motives you need a little more than not liking them or suspicion in my book. I know a lot of great mothers that do somethings that I think are odd or out there or not something I would ever do with my child but still, They are good parents.

I am always going to be in the parents camp until someone proves to me otherwise and as for Lou, Faith is a good thing. That is not something I would put as a strike against him.

Yes, I am new to the discussion and hope to learn a lot while reading and looking at the many resources here. It is an amazing place of information. I just hope all sides are welcome and that it is not so slanted one way that another voice can not be heard and welcomed.

 

[Squishified]

:welcome:

Welcome to WS, Whocanitbenow. Even though I believe the parents are involved, I enjoy reading everyone's opinion. Hope you stay with us!

 

[Mikebr]

I have been reading all day before joining and while it is your opinion that Patsy wrote that letter, It is not mine. I believe when looking at the case from both sides, there is no way the parents had anything to do with this child's brutal death. To questions a mother's love, or motives you need a little more than not liking them or suspicion in my book. I know a lot of great mothers that do somethings that I think are odd or out there or not something I would ever do with my child but still, They are good parents.

I am always going to be in the parents camp until someone proves to me otherwise and as for Lou, Faith is a good thing. That is not something I would put as a strike against him.

Yes, I am new to the discussion and hope to learn a lot while reading and looking at the many resources here. It is an amazing place of information. I just hope all sides are welcome and that it is not so slanted one way that another voice can not be heard and welcomed.

There are several posters with your opinion so all opinions welcome. Well i believe a locked house with a dead child garoted in the basement and a strange fake ransom note with many intimate references points to a parent. can't get away from that crazy note patsy clearly wrote. too bad the police dropped the ball the first day. house should have been cleared by police immediately..afterall the "intruder" could have been hiding in the basement.

 

[runsdeep]

here i am, broken record again! i think what-ever LA found out about the "family dynamic" "incest roles" is the key to unlocking what happened.

we have diverse opinions because it is a true mystery.

 

[Mikebr]

here i am, broken record again! i think what-ever LA found out about the "family dynamic" "incest roles" is the key to unlocking what happened.

we have diverse opinions because it is a true mystery.

I agree..there were secrets in that family and i think dark ones.

 

[Whocanitbenow]

I am sure this has been hashed and rehashed. I just don't believe they did it. I don't see it the way you do. I guess that is why there are republicans and democrats.. We all have the same information but we process it in different ways.

I need proof and I don't see it. To get me to step against the parents, I need more than a few skewed points. Maybe in time there will be more to look at but standing where I am now, it is not there for me.

 

[DeeDee249]

I have been reading all day before joining and while it is your opinion that Patsy wrote that letter, It is not mine. I believe when looking at the case from both sides, there is no way the parents had anything to do with this child's brutal death. To questions a mother's love, or motives you need a little more than not liking them or suspicion in my book. I know a lot of great mothers that do somethings that I think are odd or out there or not something I would ever do with my child but still, They are good parents.

I am always going to be in the parents camp until someone proves to me otherwise and as for Lou, Faith is a good thing. That is not something I would put as a strike against him.

Yes, I am new to the discussion and hope to learn a lot while reading and looking at the many resources here. It is an amazing place of information. I just hope all sides are welcome and that it is not so slanted one way that another voice can not be heard and welcomed.

I read for a year before posting- but don't be intimidated by the overwhelming amount of information on the case. You might try some of the several books on the case and there is lots of info on the JonBenet archies here: http://www.acandyrose.com

If you have 2 hours to spare and want a crash course, rent the DVD "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town", a made-for-TV version of Lawrence Schiiler's book of the same name. The R family allowed Schiller to photograph the inside of their home, which he recreated in exacting detail for his film. His account is fairly neutral, is not particularly accusatory towards the Rs. You can pretty much form your own opinion when you watch it.
Every voice can be heard here. Our posts are our opinions only- none of us knows what happened that night. But in a case where an allegedly kidnapped child is found dead in her own home, ALL residents who were present in that home at the time of the murder must be considered suspects until the killer is identified BY NAME. If you search the site I posted, you'll see handwriting comparisons of exemplars from Patsy Ramsey. When I saw them, I couldn't believe how anyone could NOT see that Patsy was the author. And while I do not think the the author of the note is necessarily the killer, I DO think that whoever wrote the note (IMO Patsy) knows who the killer is and knows what happened that night. There is simply no other reason for writing he note, if not to cover up what happened.

 

[runsdeep]

i lean toward JRdi, and PR helped in cover up which IMO is every bit as guilty. my tendency towards parents di is not set in cement, just seems more probable.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

There's been a recent development in the Lisa Irwin case, in which a PI has been hired (it's not known whether it was by the family or the media). It reminded me a lot of the the Ramsey case where the parents also hired PI's. However, one big difference is that the PI in the Irwin case comes across as some full of BS publicity hound. If this guy goes on a TV show and starts giving some ridiculous story about happened to Lisa, with "Private Investigator for the Irwins" under his name, it will destroy their relationship with the public. The Ramseys hired investigators too, but they knew how to market them correctly. With Lou Smit, we constantly heard about how he had solved 200+ crimes. With Bill Stanton, the Irwin's PI, we hear about how he used to work at a nightclub and that he wants to be a celebrity.

I think the Lisa Irwin case is going to play out like the Ramsey case should have if the Ramseys didn't have money. Whenever Bill Stanton goes on a TV show, the media will inform the public that he is a "PI hired by the family" and then Bill will makes some crazy claim like Lisa was abducted by aliens. In the Ramsey case, when ever one of the investigators appeared on a TV show, it's never mentioned that he was hired by the family, instead they'll talk about how he has decades of experiences solving hundreds of cases and that after reviewing the Ramsey case, he came to the conclusion that the Ramseys are innocent.

I think the big difference between how the PI in the Irwin case come across and how the PI's in the Ramsey case came across has a lot to do with the Ramseys having the money to hire a PR firm. There was no way they were going to put someone like Bill Stanton, front and center, to speak for them. If the Irwins are innocent, I can see why they would be open to using someone like Bill who is probably claiming that he'll find their daughter and keep her case in the spotlight for free (possibly being paid by the media). But the Ramseys had money, so whether they are innocent or not, there's no way they would agree to have some nut speak for them because they had the means to hire someone with credibility, whether the goal was to find the killer or to create a public defense for the family.

 

[runsdeep]

There's been a recent development in the Lisa Irwin case, in which a PI has been hired (it's not known whether it was by the family or the media). It reminded me a lot of the the Ramsey case where the parents also hired PI's. However, one big difference is that the PI in the Irwin case comes across as some full of BS publicity hound. If this guy goes on a TV show and starts giving some ridiculous story about happened to Lisa, with "Private Investigator for the Irwins" under his name, it will destroy their relationship with the public. The Ramseys hired investigators too, but they knew how to market them correctly. With Lou Smit, we constantly heard about how he had solved 200+ crimes. With Bill Stanton, the Irwin's PI, we hear about how he used to work at a nightclub and that he wants to be a celebrity.

I think the Lisa Irwin case is going to play out like the Ramsey case should have if the Ramseys didn't have money. Whenever Bill Stanton goes on a TV show, the media will inform the public that he is a "PI hired by the family" and then Bill will makes some crazy claim like Lisa was abducted by aliens. In the Ramsey case, when ever one of the investigators appeared on a TV show, it's never mentioned that he was hired by the family, instead they'll talk about how he has decades of experiences solving hundreds of cases and that after reviewing the Ramsey case, he came to the conclusion that the Ramseys are innocent.

I think the big difference between how the PI in the Irwin case come across and how the PI's in the Ramsey case came across has a lot to do with the Ramseys having the money to hire a PR firm. There was no way they were going to put someone like Bill Stanton, front and center, to speak for them. If the Irwins are innocent, I can see why they would be open to using someone like Bill who is probably claiming that he'll find their daughter and keep her case in the spotlight for free (possibly being paid by the media). But the Ramseys had money, so whether they are innocent or not, there's no way they would agree to have some nut speak for them because they had the means to hire someone with credibility, whether the goal was to find the killer or to create a public defense for the family.

yip yip. and they did most of their damage with me when they went on tv and opened their own mouths.

 

[jujube]

It's been my opinion for some time that Burke killed his sister. I just reread the Bonita papers from acandyrose and noticed for the first time that there was a Swiss Army knife found on the floor of the wine cellar. Earlier in the paper, the maid commented that she was always having to pick up shavings from Burke's carving with a Swiss Army knife that his grandparents bought for him in Switzerland. Granted there are millions of the knives but there was 1 person in the home who carried it with him all the time. Plus his disconnected attitude toward what happened to his sister and his lack of emotion while talking to the therapist also make me suspicious. The fact that Jonbenet apparently suffered from repeated digital intercourse lead me to believe that she was the patient to Burke's doctor. Something went terribly wrong, he killed her, and his parents covered for him.
Again just my opinion and I'm no expert.

 

[Mikebr]

It's been my opinion for some time that Burke killed his sister. I just reread the Bonita papers from acandyrose and noticed for the first time that there was a Swiss Army knife found on the floor of the wine cellar. Earlier in the paper, the maid commented that she was always having to pick up shavings from Burke's carving with a Swiss Army knife that his grandparents bought for him in Switzerland. Granted there are millions of the knives but there was 1 person in the home who carried it with him all the time. Plus his disconnected attitude toward what happened to his sister and his lack of emotion while talking to the therapist also make me suspicious. The fact that Jonbenet apparently suffered from repeated digital intercourse lead me to believe that she was the patient to Burke's doctor. Something went terribly wrong, he killed her, and his parents covered for him.
Again just my opinion and I'm no expert.

i might be able to believe burke engaged in some abusive behavior perhaps, but i cannot believe he could crack her skull. I would think if an 8 yo abused another child, it is most likely that 8 yo was also abused. this home had a lot of secrets. i am not convinced burke was involved at all and definitely did not kill his sister. i think patsy killed her to protect someone.

 

[jujube]

i might be able to believe burke engaged in some abusive behavior perhaps, but i cannot believe he could crack her skull. I would think if an 8 yo abused another child, it is most likely that 8 yo was also abused. this home had a lot of secrets. i am not convinced burke was involved at all and definitely did not kill his sister. i think patsy killed her to protect someone.

Ok, maybe Patsy heard JonBenet scream ( I could never understand how a neighbor across the street could hear the scream but her family didn't) when Burke was abusing her and she knocked the crud out of her to shut her up. Only she knocked her too hard and killed her. Burke may not have known his mother killed her. I still think that he was involved in some way.

 

[DeeDee249]

Ok, maybe Patsy heard JonBenet scream ( I could never understand how a neighbor across the street could hear the scream but her family didn't) when Burke was abusing her and she knocked the crud out of her to shut her up. Only she knocked her too hard and killed her. Burke may not have known his mother killed her. I still think that he was involved in some way.

Tests were done by LE in the home and the scream COULD be heard in the parents' bedroom on the third floor. LE were stationed at the neighbor's house diagonally across the street as well, and the scream could also be heard there. There was a vent pipe in the basement in the vicinity of the area where it is likely the assault happened, and this carried the sound outside. Let's not forget that the supposition that the parents did not hear the scream is not fact. They WOULD have heard the scream if they were in their room. But they might not have been in their room- they might have been right where the scream occurred.

 

[FairM]

Tests were done by LE in the home and the scream COULD be heard in the parents' bedroom on the third floor. LE were stationed at the neighbor's house diagonally across the street as well, and the scream could also be heard there. There was a vent pipe in the basement in the vicinity of the area where it is likely the assault happened, and this carried the sound outside. Let's not forget that the supposition that the parents did not hear the scream is not fact. They WOULD have heard the scream if they were in their room. But they might not have been in their room- they might have been right where the scream occurred.

this "witness" is hardly reliable having said that the scream she heard was the "negative" energy from JonBenet:sick:

 

[jujube]

this "witness" is hardly reliable having said that the scream she heard was the "negative" energy from JonBenet:sick:

I don't know but I'd say being sexually molested might give a "blood curdling" scream "negative energy."
Several years ago I lived In Telluride and my brother lived in Boulder. Hearing people talk about "negative energy" in those towns is like hearing someone ask about the weather anywhere else. It would not be considered weird at all. There's still an element of hippie go la la.

 

[BBB167893]

I am relatively new to this forum and haven't read most of the thousands of posts on the JBR case. I do have my own opions, of course! I do have a question for those who believe the parents killed JBR and did the cover-up. IF they did it, then why did they leave her body in the house when they knew it would be found so soon? Why not get rid of the body that night to correspond to the "kidnapping" of the ransom note?

Hi, ShadyLady.

We hear this question ALOT. And there are several possible reasons. As the FBI experts said, most parents don't want to leave their children out in the elements. In this particular case, add how important it was for JB to look "pretty" at her funeral.

If that's not enough, add the fact that it would have been risky in the extreme to put her body outside, because they might have been seen.

 

[BBB167893]

I think they felt that if their child just disappeared into thin air, it would make them look even more suspicious than if she were murdered by the bogus intruder.

Also, they might have been afraid to leave the house, even in the dead of night, in case they were seen. How could they possibly explain a midnight run to the police who would be investigating a child's disappearance/kidnapping?

That would be my question,

Lastly, Patsy the Amazing Narcissist would never allow the opportunity for the cameras to pass her by. A truly missing child was of no use to her.

Maybe so.

I think PR killed her daughter and felt the local police were so stupid they would never discover what had really happened. She was that arrogant.

I don't feel she was really all that intelligent myself, but she certainly did gauge the police correctly.

I can see that happening. It wouldn't have been difficult for her to feel contempt for thr police living in BOULDER. Just about everyone there held them in contempt.

 

[BBB167893]

PR would have gotten plenty a press for a missing beauty queen.

Maybe so, but it wouldn't have had that extra piquant of tragedy.