Conrad Murray Trial - Day Twenty

[peace9274]

OH Man. I just had a big scare! I scrolled down to see who was on here.

But instead of going all the way down to where it says " Currently Active Users Viewing....."

I scrolled down to where it says "Tags" & saw "conrad murray" & thought he was on here.

Thank goodness the scare only lasted a second, otherwise, I would've been asking if any of you know CPR ..... to revive me.

 

[octobermoon]

♥ [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2AitTPI5U0&feature=relmfu"]Michael Jackson - Black Or White - YouTube[/ame]

 

[borndem]

OH Man. I just had a big scare! I scrolled down to see who was on here.

But instead of going all the way down to where it says " Currently Active Users Viewing....."

I scrolled down to where it says "Tags" & saw "conrad murray" & thought he was on here.

Thank goodness the scare only lasted a second, otherwise, I would've been asking if any of you know CPR ..... to revive me.

:floorlaugh:.... I guess I can laff now, peace -- It's happened to me before.

I sent an article to a good friend of mine who is gay, via the magazine's "send this email to a friend" emailer. After I sent it, I saw at the bottom of the mag's email address box was their little logos and things you could click on, and one of them displayed, "FAQ," hwow: and I nearly fainted -- then I took a second look and stopped hyperventilating. Whew. So please move over & give me some room on your Sweat Bench!!!

Intended in all respect. eace:

 

[borndem]

♥ Michael Jackson - Black Or White - YouTube

Brilliant!! Thanks, Moon. Those cute little hips of his -- whew -- and the joy he gave off when he knew he was really ON and just doing it right.

A big part of his drive to do "This Is It" was to show his children what he was all about -- and they were finally old enuff to really appreciate who their Daddy was. Oh, it makes me cry. He had so many reasons for doing this concert, and yes, financial gain was one of them, but I think that motive was not high on his list at all. I think it was for his kids in a big, big way.

What an ache and sorrowful loss this is for the world. Grrrrrr.

:justice: ... eace:

 

[katydid23]

Thank you, one and all. Such an interesting read this morning.

I was going over, ok trying to go over yesterday's testimony and realized that I can't go over it. The questions Flannegan asked and the order he asked them was like trying to follow a jerky moving car down the highway in the dark. Not really thinking about anything but following the tail lights in front of you and then you realize you are swerving from ditch to center line, stop yourself and think, boy someone must be drunk in front of me. Then you back off and try not to get caught up in any accident they might cause. That was Flannegan's questioning.

I would think that a lawyer would make an outline of questions with possible answers with the next questions after each posssible answer. But Flannegan was just all over the place.

Anyway those were my thoughts on yesterday's testimony. Not half as fun as you guy's thoughts, but I will own them.

I agree. But that is a Defense strategy. By jumping around like that they hope to confuse the jury and overwhelm them. Doing it that way makes the jury think there are lots of loose ends and unanswered questions and raises the possibility of a reasonable doubt conclusion.

 

[UCAKID]

I listen to the trials more than I actually watch, so it's been bugging me who Flanagan sounds like. Then it hit me. Joe Biden!

 

[~n/t~]

O/T Ocean or anyone that has followed the CM trial if you can help with this question asked in another case (Lisa Irwin missing baby) regarding cell phones. Can cell phone companies differentiate between an answered call, missed call or voice mail call. I know there was a lot of discussion about CM's cellphones in the trial so wondering if anybody knows the answer to this. TIA

Originally Posted by Sigh Sister
BBM

I'm trying to find out if that is in fact true, but having a really hard time. I'll keep looking though and report back if I find anything. If cell companies can differentiate between missed, answered, etc... I'll totally be on board with you.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

O/T Ocean or anyone that has followed the CM trial if you can help with this question asked in another case (Lisa Irwin missing baby) regarding cell phones. Can cell phone companies differentiate between an answered call, missed call or voice mail call. I know there was a lot of discussion about CM's cellphones in the trial so wondering if anybody knows the answer to this. TIA

Morning n/t!

I am not that versed on cell phone data but I do believe I have read in other cases where the phone companies can retrieve such data.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Good Morning everyone!

I have been thinking about one of Dr. White's answers in his direct.

If he says that CMs statement is consistent with what was found at time of autopsy then why are the propofol and lorazepam levels much different?

And isn't it strange that MJ happened to 'accidentally overdose' (per DT) on the very meds Murray said he gave him when he had other drugs available to him?:waitasec:

He said it shows MJ self injected. How does he get to that giant leap when it is just as reasonable or more reasonable to believe Murray gave MJ too much lorazepam and propofol.

 

[~n/t~]

Morning n/t!

I am not that versed on cell phone data but I do believe I have read in other cases where the phone companies can retrieved such data.

imo

Thanks Ocean.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Dr. White seemed to base all of his opinions on CM being truthful in his interview.

So if Walgren brings out the glaring inconsistencies in CMs statement where does that leave White's opinon?:waitasec:

Is it reasonable to believe that MJ injected the very medication (propofol) CM said he gave him and also took the very medication (lorazepam) that Murray also said he gave him?:waitasec: How convenient for CM.

Why would MJ take more lorazepams when he had already told Murray supposedly that nothing worked but the propofol?:waitasec:

Why wouldn't he just inject the propofol which he told Murray was the only thing that worked?:waitasec:

Or is it much more reasonable to believe that CM gave him too much of the lorazepam and propofol causing his death?

That cuts out all the miraculous tricks MJ had to pull off in order to accomplish all of these feats.:innocent:

K.I.S.S. RULE:...Keep it simple stupid.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

And to add to the thought logic of the DT.

MJ did all of these amazing feats supposedly yet didn't leave a fingerprint anywhere:waitasec:?

 

[peace9274]

And to add to the thought logic of the DT.

MJ did all of these amazing feats supposedly yet didn't leave a fingerprint anywhere:waitasec:?

CM gave MJ propofol.
CM left the room.
MJ stopped breathing.
CM was not in the room to immediately get him breathing again.
MJ died!

To me, the only thing that matters is:
CM gave MJ IV propofol and then left the room.
MJ died while CM was grossly negligent.

Dr Conrad Murray is on trial for being grossly negligent which led to the death his patient, Michael Jackson.

So, in this case:

It doesn't matter what drugs MJ received from CM or if he took them himself.
CM LEFT the room.

It doesn't matter when MJ received the drugs & then stopped breathing.
CM was NOT in the room.

It doesn't matter where MJ got the drugs or where CM went.
CM left for longer than 2 minutes.

It doesn't matter how MJ got the drugs or how much he received.
CM was hired by MJ to stay and supervise MJ at all times.

Regardless of CM leaving the room, with MJ unattended, with drugs within MJ's reach,
I believe it's impossible that MJ took any meds on his own after CM started administering the propofol.

CM's gross negligence is what killed MJ!

So, WHY is all this time wasted on irrelevent stuff like lab results, drug chemistry, graphs, MJ's drug history, how pressured he was to do the tour, etc etc etc?

 

[outofstatelawyer]

CM gave MJ propofol.
CM left the room.
MJ stopped breathing.
CM was not in the room to immediately get him breathing again.
MJ died!

To me, the only thing that matters is:
CM gave MJ IV propofol and then left the room.
MJ died while CM was grossly negligent.

Dr Conrad Murray is on trial for being grossly negligent which led to the death his patient, Michael Jackson.

So, in this case:

It doesn't matter what drugs MJ received from CM or if he took them himself.
CM LEFT the room.

It doesn't matter when MJ received the drugs & then stopped breathing.
CM was NOT in the room.

It doesn't matter where MJ got the drugs or where CM went.
CM left for longer than 2 minutes.

It doesn't matter how MJ got the drugs or how much he received.
CM was hired by MJ to stay and supervise MJ at all times.

Regardless of CM leaving the room, with MJ unattended, with drugs within MJ's reach,
I believe it's impossible that MJ took any meds on his own after CM started administering the propofol.

CM's gross negligence is what killed MJ!

So, WHY is all this time wasted on irrelevent stuff like lab results, drug chemistry, graphs, MJ's drug history, how pressured he was to do the tour, etc etc etc?

Because...the DT is just looking for ONE juror. There are some people who will be so put off if they even suspect that MJ had a hand (no pun) in this, in any way, shape, or form, that they will refuse to convict.

Which brings me to something else I've been thinking about. If, God forbid, there is a hung jury in this case, it will be seen as a "victory" for the defense. A hung jury is always viewed as a victory for the defense, YET, in my experience, defendants are often convicted the second time around. I think this is due to a number of factors, including that the State has seen all of the defense cards. But I've usually been able to chalk it up to a different defense team the second time. Especially in relatively high profile cases, the defense lawyers in the first trial are usually the best that a defendant can afford.

Which brings me to another lingering question: who is paying Flanagan and Chernoff? Do y'all think they are working pro bono? This is a defense that stays at only the best hotels, has done a boatload of outside testing, etc. And Dr. White...has he disclosed yet what he is being paid? Murray, according to all reports I've read, was deeply in debt. His Las Vegas home was foreclosed, he wasn't paying child support, etc. Where is the money for this fancy-schmancy defense coming from? Murray is running around on weekends getting pedicures and buying $175 ties. None of this makes sense to me.

And, to end this rambling post, if there is (God forbid) a second trial, I doubt Messrs. Chernoff and Flanagan will be around, and the stays at the Ritz Carlton etc. will likely end. Thanks for bearing with me!

 

[BOZGAL]

So does that mean the DT went through a dozen experts before they found Dr. White willing to take the defense's side?



The researcher said the evidence recovered in Jackson's bedroom was more consistent with the singer receiving the powerful anesthetic through an injection. He said he believes Jackson somehow gave himself a 25-milligram dose of the drug between 11:30 a.m. and noon on June 25, 2009, when Murray found the singer unresponsive.

He initially was reluctant to become involved in the Jackson case. But White said that after reading more than a dozen expert reports, he couldn't figure out how others came to the conclusion that Murray would have had to leave Jackson on a propofol IV drip for the singer to die with the anesthetic still coursing through his body.

http://hosted2.ap.org/OREUG/f7ded15...on-Doctor/id-f228ed2ff8ff4a68bd6fb60e3a759061

It absolutely shows DR White was not DT first choice. Is a reasonable person to believe that DT only began looking for a medical expert in January of this year? CERTAINLY NOT.

Proves what some of us thought all along. DT would have huge problems finding a medical expert to sign on with them.

Did anyone else think it odd that Dr. White several times referred to his opinion as being a biased opinion? I thought that to be very odd that an expert witness would want to say in his testimony that he is biased. Aren't they at least supposed to give us the impression of an objective expert opinion rather than a subjective biased opinion?

He kept harping on biased and was using the speculation word way too much.
DR White is a hired gun and nothing more or less. I hope he was well paid as he now enters that MEDICAL HALL OF SHAME with Spitz, Baden, Lee and others hang their hat at now.

jmho

Why would Conrat order vented tubing, if not to spike an unvented container?
If Conrat gave Propofol via gravity flow with the vented tubing for 2 months, why would he change his mo?

He did not change his method and its ludicrous to even think so. Why order all those 100ml/1000mg bottles of Propofol as DR Shafer said if not expecting to use them at once?

My notes in caps from DR Shafer:

DEFENDANT HAD FULL INTENTION OF ADMINISTERING 100MG BOTTLE THAT MORNING. HE ORDERED ENOUGH BIG BOTTLES FOR 1 PER EVENING.

130 - 100ML/100MG BOTTLES OF PROPOFOL
125 - 20ML /200MG VIALS OF PROPOFOL
155,000 MG OF PROPOFOL
15.5 LITERS OF PROPOFOL
4.9 GALLONS OF PROPOFOL
1937.50 MG OF PROPOFOL PER DAY.

PROPOFOL IS A CULTURAL MEDIA FOR BACTERIA. ONCE A BOTTLE HAS BEEN PUNTURED IT HAS TO BE USED WITHIN 6 HOURS. ONE WOULD NOT PURCHASE A 100MG BOTTLE WITHOUT THE INTENT ON USING IT QUICKLY. AS A POINT OF FACT THE PACKAGE INSERT SAYS TO USE WITHIN 6 HRS AND THE REMAINER DISPOSED OF. 100ML BOTTLE SHOWS INTENT TO USE THAT AMOUNT.

 

[peace9274]

It absolutely shows DR White was not DT first choice. Is a reasonable person to believe that DT only began looking for a medical expert in January of this year? CERTAINLY NOT.

Proves what some of us thought all along. DT would have huge problems finding a medical expert to sign on with them.


He kept harping on biased and was using the speculation word way too much.

DR White is a hired gun and nothing more or less. I hope he was well paid as he now enters that MEDICAL HALL OF SHAME with Spitz, Baden, Lee and others hang their hat at now.

jmho

Respectfully snipped by me.
BBM

What I love the most about Dr White's testimony, as an expert witness for the defense,
several times he called MJ's bedroom.... THE CRIME SCENE!! ooops!

 

[peace9274]

Because...the DT is just looking for ONE juror. There are some people who will be so put off if they even suspect that MJ had a hand (no pun) in this, in any way, shape, or form, that they will refuse to convict.

Which brings me to something else I've been thinking about. If, God forbid, there is a hung jury in this case, it will be seen as a "victory" for the defense. A hung jury is always viewed as a victory for the defense, YET, in my experience, defendants are often convicted the second time around. I think this is due to a number of factors, including that the State has seen all of the defense cards. But I've usually been able to chalk it up to a different defense team the second time. Especially in relatively high profile cases, the defense lawyers in the first trial are usually the best that a defendant can afford.

Which brings me to another lingering question: who is paying Flanagan and Chernoff? Do y'all think they are working pro bono? This is a defense that stays at only the best hotels, has done a boatload of outside testing, etc. And Dr. White...has he disclosed yet what he is being paid? Murray, according to all reports I've read, was deeply in debt. His Las Vegas home was foreclosed, he wasn't paying child support, etc. Where is the money for this fancy-schmancy defense coming from? Murray is running around on weekends getting pedicures and buying $175 ties. None of this makes sense to me.

And, to end this rambling post, if there is (God forbid) a second trial, I doubt Messrs. Chernoff and Flanagan will be around, and the stays at the Ritz Carlton etc. will likely end. Thanks for bearing with me!

BBM
Thank you, outofstatelawyer.
I wasn't really expecting an answer to my WHY question... more of a statement actually.

I totally agree with your answer & appreciate your explanation as to why the
defense is doing this & what'll happen if CM is found to be (God forbid) not guilty!)

I hope the defense doesn't resort to presenting the jurors with outrageous
lies, like Jose Baez did in the CA Trial. That would really make me sooo :furious: !

 

[oceanblueeyes]

CM gave MJ propofol.
CM left the room.
MJ stopped breathing.
CM was not in the room to immediately get him breathing again.
MJ died!

To me, the only thing that matters is:
CM gave MJ IV propofol and then left the room.
MJ died while CM was grossly negligent.

Dr Conrad Murray is on trial for being grossly negligent which led to the death his patient, Michael Jackson.

So, in this case:

It doesn't matter what drugs MJ received from CM or if he took them himself.
CM LEFT the room.

It doesn't matter when MJ received the drugs & then stopped breathing.
CM was NOT in the room.

It doesn't matter where MJ got the drugs or where CM went.
CM left for longer than 2 minutes.

It doesn't matter how MJ got the drugs or how much he received.
CM was hired by MJ to stay and supervise MJ at all times.

Regardless of CM leaving the room, with MJ unattended, with drugs within MJ's reach,
I believe it's impossible that MJ took any meds on his own after CM started administering the propofol.

CM's gross negligence is what killed MJ!

So, WHY is all this time wasted on irrelevant stuff like lab results, drug chemistry, graphs, MJ's drug history, how pressured he was to do the tour, etc etc etc?

I do agree with absolutely everything you have said, Peace.

But for me personally it does matter anytime a victim is blamed for their own death when they are not guilty of anything other than trusting the wrong one.

None of the DT theories make sense to me. They have tried everything in the world to sling mud on MJs grave.

To be able to try to hoodwink this jury with smoke and mirrors just seems so inherently unfair when seeking the truth and true justice.

IMO

 

[peace9274]

I do agree with absolutely everything you have said, Peace.

But for me personally it does matter anytime a victim is blamed for their own death when they are not guilty of anything other than trusting the wrong one.

None of the DT theories make sense to me. They have tried everything in the world to sling mud on MJs grave.

To be able to try to hoodwink this jury with smoke and mirrors just seems so inherently unfair when seeking the truth and true justice.

IMO

OH I agree that it does matter that MJ is being blamed for his own death.

I just meant that only CM & his gross negligence (prior to, during & after he administered propofol),
can be blamed for why MJ died, regardless of what else may or may not have taken place by MJ.

 

[Credence]

O/T Ocean or anyone that has followed the CM trial if you can help with this question asked in another case (Lisa Irwin missing baby) regarding cell phones. Can cell phone companies differentiate between an answered call, missed call or voice mail call. I know there was a lot of discussion about CM's cellphones in the trial so wondering if anybody knows the answer to this. TIA

Good afternoon all

My background is in communications. There really is no way to tell if a cell phone call has been answered or not or gone to voice mail. Cell phone retrieval data will only give you duration of the call and where it originated or terminated.

Sometimes if a voice mail (and it has not been deleted from the carrier's database,) a voice mail recording can be retrieved as well as text messages but that is dependent upon the carrier and if, and how long they save them due to space.