Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #3

[Kimberlyd125]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/3...ere-american-was-allegedly-killed-by-mexican/


Remains Found at U.S. Border Lake Where American Was Reported Killed by Mexican Pirates


Authorities are investigating human remains found at the same U.S. border lake where a Colorado man was reported to have been killed by Mexican drug cartel members last year.

A professional fisherman found the skeletal remains on the Mexican side of Falcon Lake on the Texas-Mexico border, according to multiple reports.




Falcon Lake is known as a site riddled with drug violence. The skeleton appears to have been there for some time, KDVR-TV reported.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I pray this is David and his family can get some closure.

Also, if it is David, maybe his wife will stop being blamed for what happened.

JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Since the remains were found on the Mexican side of the lake, U.S. authorities will have to wait until their law enforcement goes and recovers the body.

http://www.kwgn.com/news/kdvr-human...was-killed-20111229,0,2711942.story?track=rss

 

[Kimberlyd125]

http://www.9news.com/news/article/238693/207/Remains-found-on-lake-where-jet-skier-disappeared-

Jones took a photo of the body which he released to law enforcement and the family of David Hartley.

9NEWS received a copy of the photo Thursday night. It shows a human skeleton with clothing still on it and the feet tied together. The Hartley family has not decided if they want to see the photo yet and out of respect for them, 9NEWS has decided not to show it at this time.

Jones turned over the GPS coordinates to U.S. Border Patrol agents who said they would pass along the information to Mexican officials. Jones also says the water levels on Falcon Lake were down 23 feet, and the body was spotted in an area that was once submerged.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Ok, so from what I'm reading, it's not unusual at all for remains to be found in the lake.

But if the skeleton still had clothes on and the fisherman took a picture, I would think the family could ask them to describe the clothes at least.

They know what David was wearing.

 

[jjenny]

Ok, so from what I'm reading, it's not unusual at all for remains to be found in the lake.

But if the skeleton still had clothes on and the fisherman took a picture, I would think the family could ask them to describe the clothes at least.

They know what David was wearing.

If the feet were tied together then it ain't a natural death.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I don't think any deaths on that lake are natural.

Drug gangs and violence galore.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Professional angler Alton Jones of Waco was fishing Wednesday with two friends on the Mexican side of Falcon Lake when one of his companions spotted what appeared to be a skull and ribcage on the bank of the dammed section of the Rio Grande, which is split between the two countries.

On closer inspection, Jones said, it quickly became obvious they had discovered the remains of a human draped in mud-caked clothing with the feet tied together and appeared to be a hole in the rear of the skull.








The Berthoud, Colo., native said the pirates shot her husband in the back of the head.

http://www.kwtx.com/mobi?storyid=136453738

 

[Linda7NJ]

So they fished David outta the water after they had alreaqdy shot him in the head so they could tie his feet together?

If it is proven to be David, IMO Tiffany's story falls apart

 

[RANCH]

So they fished David outta the water after they had alreaqdy shot him in the head so they could tie his feet together?

If it is proven to be David, IMO Tiffany's story falls apart

Maybe the pirates did fish his body out and took him 15 miles from where he was killed, tied a weight around his ankles and dropped him in the spot that he was found today. I'm not sure if it is common for these drug cartel members to hide their victims body's or not.

The skeleton was found about 15 miles from where 30-year-old David Hartley was last seen alive on Sept. 30, 2010.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/3...as-allegedly-killed-by-mexican/#ixzz1i4KDGJ00

 

[Kimberlyd125]

So they fished David outta the water after they had alreaqdy shot him in the head so they could tie his feet together?

If it is proven to be David, IMO Tiffany's story falls apart

I figured as much.

But if it is David, he was in fact, like she said, shot in the back of the head.

What parts, besides the feet being tied, falls apart?

Perhaps he was still alive when they took him.

If its David, what would be your theory?
What would she have done then?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Maybe the pirates did fish his body out and took him 15 miles from where he was killed, tied a weight around his ankles and dropped him in the spot that he was found today. I'm not sure if it is common for these drug cartel members to hide their victims body's or not.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/3...as-allegedly-killed-by-mexican/#ixzz1i4KDGJ00

Yes it is common. The info is somewhere in these threads.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5710684&postcount=419"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - David Hartley - Pirates shoot US man in Mexican waters #2[/ame]

This is the post from the last thread that explains about why they would take and hide the body.

ETA: Snipped from the post linked above:

It must also be recognized that any attempt to quantify the death toll in the Mexican cartel wars is quickly complicated by the fact that the cartels have gotten very good at disposing of bodies. Many victims simply disappear, and their murders are never confirmed. For example, in December 2008, American anti-kidnapping consultant Felix Batista disappeared from a meeting at a restaurant in Saltillo, Coahuila state. Batista reportedly was murdered, but no trace of his body was ever found. In addition to dumping bodies in mass graves, using wood chippers or feeding them to vultures, Mexican cartels also have developed innovative ways to dispose of their victims

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Family hopes body found in Mexico lake is Colorado man



At her parent's farm in LaSalle in Northern Colorado, Tiffany Hartley said Thursday she has been on the phone with her law enforcement contacts hoping for confirmation that the remains are indeed her late husband.

She said, "I instantly, of course, am thinking of David and that this is going to be him. We've been praying for this for 15 months now and we're just hoping that this is going to be our end-of-the-year miracle. It might not be him and we know that, too."

http://www.coloradoan.com/article/2...ke-Colorado-man?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News

 

[rossva]

I could see some one tying the victims (dead or alive) feet together and dragging him behind their boat to another location.

So they fished David outta the water after they had alreaqdy shot him in the head so they could tie his feet together?

If it is proven to be David, IMO Tiffany's story falls apart

 

[fran]

According to this article from last spring, there had already been approximately 6K deaths related to the cartels in Mexico, just from the beginning of 2011. So the chances of this being David is 6,000 to 1. Even if it is David, it doesn't change anything that Mrs. Hartley said.

Also, according to the articles I've read, they say that the figure of fatalities connected to the cartels could actually be much higher, as some people are just missing, some are from South America (so Mexico wouldn't know they were missing).

That fisherman was on a fishing trip, apparently in Mexican waters. I'm sure he had his reasons why he thought he would be safe. Kinda' like the Hartleys, I would say. So if something happened to him, I guess it would be his fault? I don't think so, just a risk taker.

The fact that the main LE agent who was investigating the Hartley crime was beheaded, tells me all I need to know. The cartel, ie Zetas, are responsible for what happened to David Hartley. Wrong place, wrong time.

I hope they do find David's body, but I doubt they will. Especially after such a long period of time.

JMHO
fran


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2011/06/mexico-war-dead-update-figures-40000.html

How many have died in Mexico's drug war?

A U.S.-based law-enforcement group favoring more liberal drug policies assembled this online data map from news and Internet sources to arrive an estimate topping 40,000, an increase of about 6,000 since the last official figure. (The Times lately has cited an estimate of at least 38,000, based on the official figures plus an approximation for the first months of 2011 derived from mainstream Mexican media tallies.)

Many drug-related deaths are simply not counted, and scores of people remain missing or disappeared. As The Times has reported, the missing constitute a confounding mystery that casts doubt on virtually any figure of deaths related to the drug war.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I agree Fran.

But I'm really hoping this is him.

I mean they find bodies there all the time. Wonder what makes this one make the news?

The skeleton was clothed. The fisherman took pictures.

I hope they at least know if the clothes are similar to what David was wearing or not.

One article I read said the family hadn't decided yet if they want to see the picture.
Another article I read said the fisherman gave a pic to LE and a pic to David's family.

I wonder if they looked at it yet.

 

[fran]

I don't know if the Hartleys have looked at the photo, but it would be horrific if they did. On one hand, they want it to be David so they can put him to rest properly. On the other hand, they don't want it to be David, because then his passing is FINAL. No going back. Over. Done.

Of course, then there's the horror they'd feel just looking at a real skeletal corpse. It belongs to someone. If not David, who? IF it's not David, they'll most likely never know. There's literally THOUSANDS of bodies found over the past few years, since '06, they don't know who they are. They just know they were murdered in the drug war.

It's such a shame. Drugs are ruining lives on both sides of the border. Then you have people running around trying to legalize them. I have no idea what the heck they're thinking.

Drugs kill.
:banghead:
fran

 

[Kimberlyd125]

The remains are now in the custody of the Mexican government, according to police.

DNA test results will determine if the remains belong to Hartley.


http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/12/falcon-lake-bones-of-slain-american-jet-skier-found/

 

[animlzrule]

Forgive me if this has already been posted;

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/09/murder.in.mexico.falcon.lake/index.html?hpt=P1&iref=NS1

..."Everything she's telling me has happened before in the other events, the other cases," Gonzalez said.

Doubts about Tiffany Hartley's story were somewhat lifted after the gruesome murder of Rolando Armando Flores Villegas, who was leading the Mexican investigation into her husband's death. His head was delivered in a suitcase to a Mexican military post shortly after David Hartley's death.

Mexican investigator beheaded

Gonzalez said he doesn't believe that the Hartleys were involved with drugs or that Tiffany Hartley was somehow involved in her husband's death to collect insurance money -- some of the theories that have been bandied about by those who doubt her story.

"There is no evidence to indicate any of that," he said. ....

I don't think she had anything to do with it. Of course this is my first post in this thread so if somebody wants to tell me the evidence against her I'd love to hear it.

I don't believe there has been any EVIDENCE against her specifically, it's just that her several different versions of what happened are suspect for several reasons. This article outlines the skepticism of the locals:

http://www.themonitor.com/articles/broke-55249-case-hartley.html

‘THEY WERE FULLY AWARE’
After 12 months, many Zapata locals said they find Tiffany Hartley’s account of that fateful day hard to swallow.

Some told The Monitor on Thursday that they doubted the couple were sightseeing or that they would have come across cartel members by accident.

They doubted she would have been able to ride back and evade the shots from cartel members.

“They did not leave her alive, I can assure you that,” Maria Gonzalez said in Spanish.

The 54-year-old has lived nearly three decades in Zapata. She said that cartel members finish their jobs and don’t leave survivors.