MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #5

hoppyfrog · Oct 29, 2009

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human · Oct 29, 2009

I agree with Hippie Chick. It sounds like her parents probably were not parents. Drugs, for instance. They could have left her in her crib with diapers that were never changed for days or whatever. She probably did not get attachment or bonding which means that she does not look at human beings as humans, they are just objects. I don't know if attachment disorder can be fixed. I know people try, but I don't know what the results are. AB didn't ask to be born into that family, but unfortunately, the rest of us have to be protected from her. Parents make mistakes, but I am afraid in this case, it's probably a lot more than mistakes. Infants need lots of things from parents, and if they don't get it, it stunts their brain for life. We need to do more for children, but people are so concerned about "rights". So this is what we get for the "freedom" that we have. "Freedom" sometimes rears it's ugly head, doesn't it?

Hippy Chick · Oct 29, 2009

to vjlaw I didn't mean old like dead with old age I am kicken 50 in the butt so I should know I just mean they have raised their family (like myself) and they probably didn't want to raise another I know I don't but if I had to because my daughter was a deadbeat I would thank God thats not the case. I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone.

Hippy Chick · Oct 29, 2009

human said:
I agree with Hippie Chick. It sounds like her parents probably were not parents. Drugs, for instance. They could have left her in her crib with diapers that were never changed for days or whatever. She probably did not get attachment or bonding which means that she does not look at human beings as humans, they are just objects. I don't know if attachment disorder can be fixed. I know people try, but I don't know what the results are. AB didn't ask to be born into that family, but unfortunately, the rest of us have to be protected from her. Parents make mistakes, but I am afraid in this case, it's probably a lot more than mistakes. Infants need lots of things from parents, and if they don't get it, it stunts their brain for life. We need to do more for children, but people are so concerned about "rights". So this is what we get for the "freedom" that we have. "Freedom" sometimes rears it's ugly head, doesn't it?

When you think in the perspective of 3 years old your pretty much molded thats scary considering alot of little kids and the lives they live. I think we may see many more AB's in the years to come. These parents need to wake up if you don't want children and will not be responsible enough to raise them correctly then don't have them. Its that simple and if the welfare system would quit handing out to them I think alot of it would stop, IMO

akashana · Oct 29, 2009

I bet the grandparents did their best, but they had AB, and then twin boys, and a younger girl . . . can't even imagine keeping them all in line and straight. I really feel bad for thinking gpa and gma should have done more, sooner. Obviously they were overwhelmed.

Hippy Chick · Oct 29, 2009

akashana said:
I bet the grandparents did their best, but they had AB, and then twin boys, and a younger girl . . . can't even imagine keeping them all in line and straight. I really feel bad for thinking gpa and gma should have done more, sooner. Obviously they were overwhelmed.

I agree I feel for them and can't imagine how terrible they feel. I am sure they are thinking if they had done things sooner but who knows it probably wouldn't have made a difference. I think she has been well on her way to this for years. Sad for all involved and especially the family of an innocent beautiful child.

vjlaw · Oct 29, 2009

Hippy Chick said:
to vjlaw I didn't mean old like dead with old age I am kicken 50 in the butt so I should know I just mean they have raised their family (like myself) and they probably didn't want to raise another I know I don't but if I had to because my daughter was a deadbeat I would thank God thats not the case. I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone.

I was just kidding you. I just thought maybe Gm may have felt she failed with the daughter so thought maybe she could do better with the granddaughter. Just another thought.

Hippy Chick · Oct 29, 2009

vjlaw said:
I was just kidding you. I just thought maybe Gm may have felt she failed with the daughter so thought maybe she could do better with the granddaughter. Just another thought.

Yes. thats a thought I know there are things I wish I had done differently but she turned out well, college, deans list, married now expecting her first child calls me everyday to say she loves me so I guess I done ok.

vjlaw · Oct 29, 2009

Hippy Chick said:
Yes. thats a thought I know there are things I wish I had done differently but she turned out well, college, deans list, married now expecting her first child calls me everyday to say she loves me so I guess I done ok.

If both of the girl's parents refuse to be responsible for the kids, someone has to take them. I just think the damage was already done before the gm got custody of the kids. She is going to have her hands full with the other kids especially herself having to live with what happened. I just can't imagine what state she must be in.

Hippy Chick · Oct 29, 2009

vjlaw said:
If both of the girl's parents refuse to be responsible for the kids, someone has to take them. I just think the damage was already done before the gm got custody of the kids. She is going to have her hands full with the other kids especially herself having to live with what happened. I just can't imagine what state she must be in.

I agree with you I wouldn't want to walk one inch in her shoes. What age was AB when she went to live with GP?

Jules71 · Oct 29, 2009

Hippy Chick said:
I agree with you I wouldn't want to walk one inch in her shoes. What age was AB when she went to live with GP?

She was 11 when GP's got custody. I believe she was probably there before that.

ynotdivein · Oct 29, 2009

Hi again folks. Thank you for the warm welcome, and thank you again for the information and the personal experiences many of you have shared.

I'm sorry I wasn't here earlier to take part in the conversation about teen girls who suddenly become angry/sad/withdrawn/unreachable. When I look back at myself from ages 13-17, I am astounded that I made it through alive and with any family relationships intact. I never cut, but for reasons I couldn't explain even to myself at the time--let alone to my mom or Some Therapist (insert patented infuriating teen smirk plus Silent Treatment here)--I hurt myself & those who loved me, hung with the wrong crowd, and made bad choices in every way possible. Two connects to this case: the whole time I was bottoming out emotionally, I maintained straight A's... and I was the oldest/caretaker child who resented the cards I'd been dealt. If we had had "Twitter" in those days, I can't imagine what darkness I'd have posted. Reading my own diaries from those years now is like reading someone else's writings.

If I had to say what made the difference, what pushed me around the corner, it was the realization that I was a really good teacher. That I could help someone else. The earlier poster (I'm sorry not to remember who but you are a genius) who is taking her daughter's friend out for girls' days, and encouraging her desire to work with animals--that's it. Direct all that energy outward and into the realization that she can do GOOD in this world. Crimecurious, when you see your daughter finding interests that connect her to others, nurture them.

I don't know if this is what the alleged perp was missing, if it could have prevented this horror (she worked with horses, right?). If we knew all the answers, we probably wouldn't all be here trying to sort this out together would we.

Sorry for the introspection. As a factual side note, the juveniles charged in the homecoming dance rape out here near me had a court appearance today. They were in bulletproof vests. And because they are being charged as adults, all of their names (though none of their pictures) were in the papers today.

Peace, my new friends.

vjlaw · Oct 29, 2009

Hippy Chick said:
I agree with you I wouldn't want to walk one inch in her shoes. What age was AB when she went to live with GP?

I'm not sure if that has been figured out yet. I think posters here came up with some records that took the grandparents came from CA. So we may not know the answer to that.

Prof · Oct 29, 2009

I followed some of the comments from the video link that has been since deleted because it violates TOS. It appears she created another account to comment on her own account. It was after some rude public comments. I suspect she has multiple s/n's on all of the typical social sites. At 13 she was quite savy in technology. I suspect that she was only slightly sadistic in 2007, but well on her way

Is that not the year the gps also got custody of the half-sister? The same half-sister whose friend was murdered?
.

Jules71 · Oct 29, 2009

Ynot,
I am not familiar with that case, although I just read one headline and that is TERRIBLE! Sick. What is wrong with people? Very sad. Wish I could do so much more to help.

Prof · Oct 29, 2009

Jules71 said:
She was 11 when GP's got custody. I believe she was probably there before that.

I think she was there before, too. I frankly don't see a disadvantaged child at all. From what I have seen, they had all of the toys, a pool, a nice home.

Jules71 · Oct 29, 2009

Prof said:
I followed some of the comments from the video link that has been since deleted because it violates TOS. It appears she created another account to comment on her own account. It was after some rude public comments. I suspect she has multiple s/n's on all of the typical social sites. At 13 she was quite savy in technology. I suspect that she was only slightly sadistic in 2007, but well on her way Is that not the year the gps also got custody of the half-sister? The same half-sister whose friend was murdered?
.

YES! They did get custody of the 6 yo in 2007. And yes, I do believe that was Elizabeth's friend. Hmmmm.

Hippy Chick · Oct 29, 2009

Prof said:
I think she was there before, too. I frankly don't see a disadvantaged child at all. From what I have seen, they had all of the toys, a pool, a nice home.

But parents and witnessed quite a bit I am sure, nothing takes the place of good parents IMO

KAE · Oct 29, 2009

Prof said:
I think she was there before, too. I frankly don't see a disadvantaged child at all. From what I have seen, they had all of the toys, a pool, a nice home.

I watched the YouTube videos and I thought the same thing. They had a pool and it looks like they even had horses. I would have loved to live in a place like that when I was a kid, yet for AB something was missing. I wonder how close she was to her mom.

ynotdivein · Oct 29, 2009

Jules71 said:
Ynot,
I am not familiar with that case, although I just read one headline and that is TERRIBLE! Sick. What is wrong with people? Very sad. Wish I could do so much more to help.

Hey Jules,

There's an article at the online SF Chronicle here:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/29/BALE1ACE6J.DTL&tsp=1

This is why I said I am heartsick. *sigh* :banghead:

MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #5

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