MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #5

[Hippy Chick]

Hi again folks. Thank you for the warm welcome, and thank you again for the information and the personal experiences many of you have shared.

I'm sorry I wasn't here earlier to take part in the conversation about teen girls who suddenly become angry/sad/withdrawn/unreachable. When I look back at myself from ages 13-17, I am astounded that I made it through alive and with any family relationships intact. I never cut, but for reasons I couldn't explain even to myself at the time--let alone to my mom or Some Therapist (insert patented infuriating teen smirk plus Silent Treatment here)--I hurt myself & those who loved me, hung with the wrong crowd, and made bad choices in every way possible. Two connects to this case: the whole time I was bottoming out emotionally, I maintained straight A's... and I was the oldest/caretaker child who resented the cards I'd been dealt. If we had had "Twitter" in those days, I can't imagine what darkness I'd have posted. Reading my own diaries from those years now is like reading someone else's writings.

If I had to say what made the difference, what pushed me around the corner, it was the realization that I was a really good teacher. That I could help someone else. The earlier poster (I'm sorry not to remember who but you are a genius) who is taking her daughter's friend out for girls' days, and encouraging her desire to work with animals--that's it. Direct all that energy outward and into the realization that she can do GOOD in this world. Crimecurious, when you see your daughter finding interests that connect her to others, nurture them.

I don't know if this is what the alleged perp was missing, if it could have prevented this horror (she worked with horses, right?). If we knew all the answers, we probably wouldn't all be here trying to sort this out together would we.

Sorry for the introspection. As a factual side note, the juveniles charged in the homecoming dance rape out here near me had a court appearance today. They were in bulletproof vests. And because they are being charged as adults, all of their names (though none of their pictures) were in the papers today.

Peace, my new friends.

Welcome and thanks for your post. I was raised in Central Missouri in the carefree 70's. I did make some bad choices @ times(smoka the weed and drinkin the spirts @ the river on Saturday night but we weren't mean to anyone and no one was ever mean to us. I really do think times have changed(I never thought that statement would come out of my mouth) after hearing my parents (God Love them) say that a million times before. I think kids are just meaner now why I really don't know but I think it goes back to bad parenting. If I had stood by and watched someone get raped and not helped them my dad would have had my butt in a big sling, He was a great father I loved him but also had that little fear of him in the back of my mind. I don't think kids have anyone to fear anymore. And Peace back at you.

 

[akashana]

Welcome and thanks for your post. I was raised in Central Missouri in the carefree 70's. I did make some bad choices @ times(smoka the weed and drinkin the spirts @ the river on Saturday night but we weren't mean to anyone and no one was ever mean to us. I really do think times have changed(I never thought that statement would come out of my mouth) after hearing my parents (God Love them) say that a million times before. I think kids are just meaner now why I really don't know but I think it goes back to bad parenting. If I had stood by and watched someone get raped and helped them my dad would have had my butt in a big sling, He was a great father I loved him but also had that little fear of him in the back of my mind. I don't think kids have anyone to fear anymore. And Peace back at you.

There is nothing that was the same; ITA with you. Back in the day, 70s, early 80s. We used to go to "bickens," outdoor parties in the country with plenty of booze and pot and quaaludes, even. But there was no animosity ever, at all. If somebody crashed out, we took care of them. We took care of our own. And we were doing this outrageous partying on our own, we policed ourselves. If a parent got involved, it was because we had slipped up, and we were scared and cooperative. We kept it real.

 

[CHICANA]

I think she was there before, too. I frankly don't see a disadvantaged child at all. From what I have seen, they had all of the toys, a pool, a nice home.

Any idea if she spent time in foster care prior to GM getting custody ?

 

[Stella5]

First post in this topic, but i've been following all the previous threads... but did anyone who looked at the youtube account notice she has killing people & cutting listed as her hobbies? Sorry if this has been discussed, I didn't notice it; but think it's worth noting.

 

[Hippy Chick]

There is nothing that was the same; ITA with you. Back in the day, 70s, early 80s. We used to go to "bickens," outdoor parties in the country with plenty of booze and pot and quaaludes, even. But there was no animosity ever, at all. If somebody crashed out, we took care of them. We took care of our own. And we were doing this outrageous partying on our own, we policed ourselves. If a parent got involved, it was because we had slipped up, and we were scared and cooperative. We kept it real.

Yes, and if a parent had to get invoved it usually wasen't good for us. But, really we had a great time and yes we took care of each other and even people that would show up we didn't even know. The worse thing we ever did was put someone that was passed outs hand in warm h20 to see if they would pee their pants. Its not true they don't just a rumor but it was fun anyway

 

[CHICANA]

Welcome and thanks for your post. I was raised in Central Missouri in the carefree 70's. I did make some bad choices @ times(smoka the weed and drinkin the spirts @ the river on Saturday night but we weren't mean to anyone and no one was ever mean to us. I really do think times have changed(I never thought that statement would come out of my mouth) after hearing my parents (God Love them) say that a million times before. I think kids are just meaner now why I really don't know but I think it goes back to bad parenting. If I had stood by and watched someone get raped and not helped them my dad would have had my butt in a big sling, He was a great father I loved him but also had that little fear of him in the back of my mind. I don't think kids have anyone to fear anymore. And Peace back at you.

I was afraid of my mom too. I remember getting chased with a switch or belt and if I didn't hold still, I'd get swatted on the legs as well as the butt. It only happened a few times but boy are they remembered. If I thought about doing something bad, I knew what the consequences were and it wasn't a nice 'counselor' to discuss whatever feelings lead to my bad behavior. I called my mom a bad name once and she slapped me in the face. I thought it was child abuse, looking back I deserved it.
Kids don't suffer the consequences of their actions anymore. The parents do.
If my mom slapped me today, they would have taken me and any other kids in the house, put us in foster homes, given us some meds to control our behavior so that we'd never learn how to control it ourselves and sent our mom the bill in the form of child support.

I'd like the village to keep an eye out for my children, but I want to raise them myself.

 

[*~Aimee~*]

First post in this topic, but i've been following all the previous threads... but did anyone who looked at the youtube account notice she has killing people & cutting listed as her hobbies? Sorry if this has been discussed, I didn't notice it; but think it's worth noting.

yes and I agree because unless she changed her hobbies (which she could of at any time) she wrote it a year ago. From what I viewed of her today she looked disturbed for a while. It creeped me out hearing her voice on there and on the karaoke site. Not sure why because I have heard other "killers" on TV shows etc in interviews. In the flip video she even told one of the boys to show something painful. ​

 

[Hippy Chick]

I have to go to bed guys work will come early in the am been nice chatting with you all and will see you all tomorrow night.....

 

[winterrose]

I just watched three videos the 15 yo did two years ago taping her brothers.What has just happened,didn't happen overnight.I've listened and I don't understand how the school system or any family members didn't see this coming.It was obvious there was a problem.

This is more than neglect,more than being raised by grandparents,children are in foster homes and single parent homes and do not become like this.This is different.I hope the videos and if there's anymore will be used in court,because Elizabeth is the victim,her family and the 15 yo's siblings are the victims.The legal system needs to be more concerned with victims,not who killed them.

People make excuses for why a person has done something,because thier minds can't comprehend why.The fact is,with some people there are no excuses,it has nothing to do with age or family history.I hope she's tried as an adult and people will look past the age.I hope they'll look at what happened to Elizabeth more than why this 15 yo did what she did to an innocent child.

 

[winterrose]

And how did she get on her myspace today?Are they actually letting her go on the computer?

 

[CementPond]

Some are speculating that her lawyer and/or police have been accessing it. Her twitter messages have also been deleted. Who knows for sure though who's accessing it.

And how did she get on her myspace today?Are they actually letting her go on the computer?

 

[lawlady84]

Some are speculating that her lawyer and/or police have been accessing it. Her twitter messages have also been deleted. Who knows for sure though who's accessing it.

If I were her defense lawyer, as SOON as she was arrested (if she brought LE to the body), I would have made ALL of her social networking sites private - and have given name/password to LE. I would have given LE a copy of her entire computer, and permission for all networking sites, saved copies of everything, and deleted EVERYTHING (once LE gave the go-ahead).

As a defendant, LE deserves to see everything you've posted. But for "friends" to post "AB, you did it" days later ... that's "rumor." That's different even than a friend posting, "you weren't in school, are you okay? did you do it?" ... Saying "you did it" implies that the friend KNEW. KWIM?

Night all, thanks for the great updates.

 

[Gray]

Good Lord, just listening to her laugh when her brother hurts himself on that video (and only after she harasses him until he does hurt himself) is CREEPY. And that's when she was 13?!

This girl is demented. It was only a matter of time.

 

[Gray]

I really think the girl has so much stuff out there online that it would be nearly impossible to get rid of it all before people found it.

Her lawyer's team has to be scrambling to keep up with what people are finding online about her.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

OMG!! Does anyone know that much about My Space?? When a profile is set to private it will have some people on the bottom of the page that says:

People you may know

Here are some people we think you may know based on common friends.
Then it will have 3 peoples profiles listed which makes you think they are friends with the person who's profile is private..

I'd appreciate ANY input!!

 

[STEADFAST]

OMG!! Does anyone know that much about My Space?? When a profile is set to private it will have some people on the bottom of the page that says:

People you may know

Here are some people we think you may know based on common friends.
Then it will have 3 peoples profiles listed which makes you think they are friends with the person who's profile is private..

I'd appreciate ANY input!!

I think what it says when you go to a private myspace page is "Here are some public profiles you might find interesting." That's different than you might be friends with these people. I've always considered that they're random, but maybe they have some similarity to the person whose myspace is private.

 

[Sassygerl]

I have found that on Facebook if you search for someone they will then at any time pop up as someone "you might know". Maybe that is the case?

 

[DollyPardonMe]

I think what it says when you go to a private myspace page is "Here are some public profiles you might find interesting." That's different than you might be friends with these people. I've always considered that they're random, but maybe they have some similarity to the person whose myspace is private.

Thanks...I went to AB's MySpace last night (took me long time to sleuth that info) LOL and my sons best friend came up as one of the three on the bottom. But his friend is 34 and lives in the Pacific Northwest so you can be sure Im going to be calling my son today and asking a whole lot of questions!!

 

[Lola]

I am reminded of Edwin Hall.

 

[DollyPardonMe]

Thanks...I went to AB's MySpace last night (took me long time to sleuth that info) LOL and my sons best friend came up as one of the three on the bottom. But his friend is 34 and lives in the Pacific Northwest so you can be sure Im going to be calling my son today and asking a whole lot of questions!!

OK, nevermind..I HATE MySpace..Everytime you go in there they post a different set of three and everytime it's a different set of 3 people and at least one that you know..A Come on, I'm sure for you to become friends with someone..I feel like such a fool..SORRY!