MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #5

[sdw]

Morning
Just checked out the you tubes and man the kids seemed to have a lot of extras. Pool, pooltable, workout equipment, techno stuff...
Does anyone know the ages of the GPs?
Listening to AB she sounds aggressive, bossy and dominating!

 

[MCDRAW]

This is my theory of why children are getting meaner. Yes, there are some bad parents. But I see this as more of a society thing. Years ago, parents raised their children the way that they thought they should with punishments and consequences. Then "experts" came out saying we should only say positive things to our children. Never tell them they are wrong. Then the government steps in and starts telling us how we can discipline our children. We now have a generation of kids that no longer feel they do any wrong, everything is owed to them because it is all about them, and they certainly are not afraid of their parents. So while some of it is just bad parenting, some of it is bad teaching, IMO. We somehow have failed to teach our children how to cope in the real world.

 

[sdw]

Was sitting here thinking about the youtubes and when I watched the first one I thouht ok sibs joking around but then as I continued to watch the others she is diffently on edge. She was trying too hard to get her bothers to hurt themselves. I wonder if she was a handful for the GPs? Did she abuse them? Maybe they could not control her? I worry the boys may have been influenced by her?

 

[mydailyopinions]

This is my theory of why children are getting meaner. Yes, there are some bad parents. But I see this as more of a society thing. Years ago, parents raised their children the way that they thought they should with punishments and consequences. Then "experts" came out saying we should only say positive things to our children. Never tell them they are wrong. Then the government steps in and starts telling us how we can discipline our children. We now have a generation of kids that no longer feel they do any wrong, everything is owed to them because it is all about them, and they certainly are not afraid of their parents. So while some of it is just bad parenting, some of it is bad teaching, IMO. We somehow have failed to teach our children how to cope in the real world.

This is what is wrong with our children..:banghead:

 

[sdw]

The book she liked Impulse
The main characters has tried to commit suicide, and each has suffered abuse (sexual, emotional and physical). One character murdered his abuser as a child, another had sex with a teacher, and the third watched her mentally ill mother die. Plus, there's cutting, abortion, bi-polar disorder, over-achieving, and a character who thinks he's gay. In the end, one of the protagonists dies a rather violent death

 

[sdw]

Can I post a site about AB's name?

 

[SereneOne]

Hello all, I am new to Websleuths and have been following the news about Elizabeth Olten as well as others you have discussed. There are obviously some super sleuths here! On the Olten case, am I allowed to post a screen name and the name of the site where it is used by the person the blogosphere says is the suspect? Thanks for the guidance.

 

[realjoy]

SereneOne and sdw...we are not allowed to post any links to any of her personal sites or sites that have her name because she is a minor.

sdw - the site you posted does have her first and middle names. I'd delete it before the mods take action.

 

[tlcya]

When you think in the perspective of 3 years old your pretty much molded thats scary considering alot of little kids and the lives they live. I think we may see many more AB's in the years to come. These parents need to wake up if you don't want children and will not be responsible enough to raise them correctly then don't have them. Its that simple and if the welfare system would quit handing out to them I think alot of it would stop, IMO

Well spoken Hippy Chick

 

[hoppyfrog]

Can I post a site about AB's name?

No.

Hoppy
mini-mod

 

[hoppyfrog]

Hello all, I am new to Websleuths and have been following the news about Elizabeth Olten as well as others you have discussed. There are obviously some super sleuths here! On the Olten case, am I allowed to post a screen name and the name of the site where it is used by the person the blogosphere says is the suspect? Thanks for the guidance.

No.

Hoppy
mini-mod

 

[sdw]

SereneOne and sdw...we are not allowed to post any links to any of her personal sites or sites that have her name because she is a minor.

sdw - the site you posted does have her first and middle names. I'd delete it before the mods take action.

Thanks I'll be more careful

 

[tlcya]

This is my theory of why children are getting meaner. Yes, there are some bad parents. But I see this as more of a society thing. Years ago, parents raised their children the way that they thought they should with punishments and consequences. Then "experts" came out saying we should only say positive things to our children. Never tell them they are wrong. Then the government steps in and starts telling us how we can discipline our children. We now have a generation of kids that no longer feel they do any wrong, everything is owed to them because it is all about them, and they certainly are not afraid of their parents. So while some of it is just bad parenting, some of it is bad teaching, IMO. We somehow have failed to teach our children how to cope in the real world.

Nail - meet head! you are exactly right. The experts told us that we need to make sure our children have all this self esteem. So society started praising kids for everything and completely stopped callling them on bad behaviors. On the flip side there is an entire generation of children being raised (or not raised as the case may be) by folks who are still children themselves. Two polar extremes. As a result, we have created a group of young people who have no concept of right and wrong, no clue as to how to succeed in the real world and all feel entitled to every little want or whim.

 

[Capri]

First post in this topic, but i've been following all the previous threads... but did anyone who looked at the youtube account notice she has killing people & cutting listed as her hobbies? Sorry if this has been discussed, I didn't notice it; but think it's worth noting.

That youtube acct is a bit scary, isn't it? I mean how many people (15 or otherwise) would list their "hobbies" as killing & cutting people?

 

[Kimster]

Hello SereneOne!!!

 

[Kimster]

Nail - meet head! you are exactly right. The experts told us that we need to make sure our children have all this self esteem. So society started praising kids for everything and completely stopped callling them on bad behaviors. On the flip side there is an entire generation of children being raised (or not raised as the case may be) by folks who are still children themselves. Two polar extremes. As a result, we have created a group of young people who have no concept of right and wrong, no clue as to how to succeed in the real world and all feel entitled to every little want or whim.

Because I was raised in an alcoholic home, I went to a few parenting seminars to learn better skills with my boys. Many were invaluable and one I'd like to point out to you who have youngsters now is the "Love and Logic" approach. I applied what I learned and my boys are both goal-oriented adults. One is a sophomore in a well-known college and the other a manager for a building company. The college kid has Asperger's Syndrome and used to speak on behalf of AS when he was a senior in high school.

The basic thing I learned and followed was to be sure you give consequences to your kids that fit their age. Follow through. And love love love them. I gave them freedoms in stages, based on how they were able to handle the freedom given prior. I hope that makes sense and if it helps just one parent who read my post, I'll be forever grateful.

 

[MDATCA]

When you think in the perspective of 3 years old your pretty much molded thats scary considering alot of little kids and the lives they live. I think we may see many more AB's in the years to come. These parents need to wake up if you don't want children and will not be responsible enough to raise them correctly then don't have them. Its that simple and if the welfare system would quit handing out to them I think alot of it would stop, IMO

There is a HUGE HUGE HUGE factor that we have failed to catch and just occured to me this mornong when re-reaeding the posts from last night.

She may have been a drug/alcohol baby. I strongly suspect tha is the case as mom and dad are proven drug users. Mom was young when she got pregnant and most likely did not realize she was pregnant or seel pre-natal care early in the pregnancy. Either way I suspect she would have done drugs or drank at some point during her pregnancy.

There is no telling the amount of mental damage that could cause. If there is even a chance of this being the case you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be a large part of AB's defence.

Now that I got that idea in my head I can just see this going in a milion different directions.

 

[Mom2Yaya]

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how AB had time to commit this horrific crime, especially if the rumor stuff is true. 45 minutes is not a whole lot of time to lure someone into the woods, do unspeakable acts to them, murder them, do more unspeakable acts and then get them buried, even if the hole *was* pre-dug.

I think it is likely that since Elizabeth was friends with AB's sister she somewhat trusted AB and that may be how she was "lured" into the woods. . . I don't think AB could've dragged her, dead or alive, into those woods. AB doesn't look big or strong enough to drag a child that size.

I wonder if AB intentionally led investigators to the body or if they watched her closely and caught her going back to the scene of the crime like so many criminals do. If AB is sick as it seems she is, it wouldn't be unlikely she would return to spend more time at the scene.

 

[Kimster]

There is a HUGE HUGE HUGE factor that we have failed to catch and just occured to me this mornong when re-reaeding the posts from last night.

She may have been a drug/alcohol baby. I strongly suspect tha is the case as mom and dad are proven drug users. Mom was young when she got pregnant and most likely did not realize she was pregnant or seel pre-natal care early in the pregnancy. Either way I suspect she would have done drugs or drank at some point during her pregnancy.

There is no telling the amount of mental damage that could cause. If there is even a chance of this being the case you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be a large part of AB's defence.

Now that I got that idea in my head I can just see this going in a milion different directions.

A friend of mine is a high school counselor. She has gone to many workshops on this issue and says it is a very real - and frightening - problem with many teens today!

 

[Capri]

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around how AB had time to commit this horrific crime, especially if the rumor stuff is true. 45 minutes is not a whole lot of time to lure someone into the woods, do unspeakable acts to them, murder them, do more unspeakable acts and then get them buried, even if the hole *was* pre-dug.

I think it is likely that since Elizabeth was friends with AB's sister she somewhat trusted AB and that may be how she was "lured" into the woods. . . I don't think AB could've dragged her, dead or alive, into those woods. AB doesn't look big or strong enough to drag a child that size.

I wonder if AB intentionally led investigators to the body or if they watched her closely and caught her going back to the scene of the crime like so many criminals do. If AB is sick as it seems she is, it wouldn't be unlikely she would return to spend more time at the scene.

There's always the possibility that she had help. Two people could get a lot more accomplished than one in 45 min.