UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #6

kiki...that was a great post. I feel like you are speaking for me, as well. Perfectly spoken....just couldn't agree with you more.

Curious Me said:

Thread #6 starts with many of you confirming my own feelings. It has been strange that searches haven't been promoted more, and her friends too helpful to the only POI. I don't understand it, but there must be a reason. At this point, I am unable to form any strong opinions, not knowing all the facts, and the reasoning behind the non-search. Totally mystified. I'm sad for Susan, her family, and for her two sons.

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Mystified is an excellent word as I feel exactly the same as to why there have been no organized searches. The only conclusion that I can even entertain is that LE has conclusive proof that she is deceased. And as mentioned earlier...why put people through a search in winter when it could be dangerous. Rather than searching for a needle in a haystack just wait until they make an arrest, and see if sniveling Josh will confess when he understands the amount of evidence they have.

I still can't get passed the theory that she's off getting deprogrammed. Who deprograms mormons?

Cherry Baby said:

In this whole searching scenerio the one person that should be looking for Susan and isn't...is her husband.

If it was my husband missing, or my child the only reason I would lose my job is because I was too busy being distressed, depressed, worried, and leading search parties myself. Not because I forgot it was a work day.

I haven't been following all the news like some have, but enough to know that somebody more worried about packing up a house than looking at maps and weather reports to plan search parties...well, I don't think I need say anything else.

JMO.

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(bbm) Agree cherry--and curious. This is the most telling of all isn't it...

We know the conditions are horrible... we know large scale searches haven't been organized yet... we know realistically, or rationally odds are against them... that there are risks, and that many S&R operations prioritize their resources and reserve dog and manpower for live searches vs recovery operations...

...but if it were your own loved one... family member, sister, or friend... you could not rest... would search high and low, near and far... before you could give up. Even if it were a dismal venture, all but doomed to failure, in such a vast amount of territory... endless desert... snowcovered mountains... neverending woods... miles and miles of roadsides... it's so very overwhelming. And there is only one person--maybe two--who could make that job any easier... and he's not talking.

It is the covering up--the throwing of the proverbial "sand (in this instance snow, more likely) on the grave"--which is nearly as cruel as the act of robbing this woman of her life, these parents of a daughter, and two young boys of their mother. Prayers for Susan--her family, and especially her boys to be in safety and in peace, God comfort and watch over them all. rayer:

arrot:

teacher 3 said:

Yes, I did see that a search is going to take place. That made me feel better, that at least some people will be looking. This case is very disturbing. I feel that Susan didn't stand a chance with that husband of hers and I only wish she could have gotten out of his clutches before it came to this. And I only have scorn for his father; I think he is an instigator (sp) sending his comments about the LDS church group. that just stirred the pot. there are just so many things wrong with this case;

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Not sure why people are vilifying him for that. He apparently raised his children in a certain religion and through time discovered facts or reasoning that led him to believe that was not right - I think he's within his rights to discuss that with his children. I am not Mormon, but I lived in Salt Lake City for several years and its quite common for people to learn things that they were never taught within the system and then fall away -- especially true in the age of the Internet. In fact I met a whole spectrum of "believers", from those who barely participate to those who are still gung-ho on the "one true church" (their words). Mostly they all get along. If this was so important to Josh and holding firm in that faith was so important to her, it is odd that he agreed to marriage counseling within their church, because then when she made her demand that he become active again, it was certain he would get no compromise on that from the counseling. I do have to believe that since this happened on a Sunday, something about all that might have brought this to a head that particular day.

Of course I hope I am wrong and do hope for the best outcome for Susan and Susan's family.

lemonmoussetart said:

Mystified is an excellent word as I feel exactly the same as to why there have been no organized searches. The only conclusion that I can even entertain is that LE has conclusive proof that she is deceased. And as mentioned earlier...why put people through a search in winter when it could be dangerous. Rather than searching for a needle in a haystack just wait until they make an arrest, and see if sniveling Josh will confess when he understands the amount of evidence they have.

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Yes lemon. I have not wanted to say this, but this is what I've concluded as well. LE may not have the complete lab results and forensic reports in yet (and obviously haven't had enough conclusive evidence for probable cause). But they may be so firmly convinced that he drove such a distance w her body eg and w/out ability to pinpoint the direction, it seemed futile to marshal the resources, or recruit manpower, to organize a large scale operation. I pray this is wrong, but this has been my hunch as well. JMO

arrot:

kiki the parrot said:

(bbm) Agree cherry--and curious. This is the most telling of all isn't it...

We know the conditions are horrible... we know large scale searches haven't been organized yet... we know realistically, or rationally odds are against them... that there are risks, and that many S&R operations prioritize their resources and reserve dog and manpower for live searches vs recovery operations...

...but if it were your own loved one... family member, sister, or friend... you could not rest... would search high and low, near and far... before you could give up. Even if it were a dismal venture, all but doomed to failure, in such a vast amount of territory... endless desert... snowcovered mountains... neverending woods... miles and miles of roadsides... it's so very overwhelming. And there is only one person--maybe two--who could make that job any easier... and he's not talking.

It is the covering up--the throwing of sand (in this instance snow, more likely) on the grave--which is nearly as cruel as the act of robbing this woman of her life, these parents of a daughter, and two young boys of their mother. Prayers for Susan--her family, and especially her boys to be in safety and in peace, God comfort and watch over them all. rayer:

arrot:

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I think she'll be found. I'm holding out hope for the forensics. It won't help find her, necessarily. But if it puts the screws on him a little more, maybe he'll cave in and do the right thing. I hadn't really followed the news over the weekend, other than reading the newspapers on Monday. I hadn't seen the coverage of "the move" until I checked out some blurbs on Amanda's Photobucket site. Joshy-Boy looks like crap in those pictures - like he's aging by the day. No matter what the guy did to Susan, I don't know that he has the stomach for carrying this, long-term.

Dr.Fessel said:

Can someone fill me in on why Ed Smart has been talked about in this case? I am trying to do so research on him and his involvement with missing people. I know I have read something just don't know where.

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His daughter is Elizabeth Smart.

RayO said:

Not sure why people are vilifying him for that. He apparently raised his children in a certain religion and through time discovered facts or reasoning that led him to believe that was not right - I think he's within his rights to discuss that with his children. I am not Mormon, but I lived in Salt Lake City for several years and its quite common for people to learn things that they were never taught within the system and then fall away -- especially true in the age of the Internet. In fact I met a whole spectrum of "believers", from those who barely participate to those who are still gung-ho on the "one true church" (their words). Mostly they all get along. If this was so important to Josh and holding firm in that faith was so important to her, it is odd that he agreed to marriage counseling within their church, because then when she made her demand that he become active again, it was certain he would get no compromise on that from the counseling. I do have to believe that since this happened on a Sunday, something about all that might have brought this to a head that particular day.

Of course I hope I am wrong and do hope for the best outcome for Susan and Susan's family.

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Hi Rayo and Welcome to WS! I haven't read where anyone is vilifying him...my guess is some prolly believe as I do that Josh IS a grown man and could/should make his own decisions regarding matters such as this. Especially when his father was well aware apparently that this was a bone of contention between Josh and Susan who are an adult married couple. Sometimes us parents of grown and in particular married children just need to mind our own business, ya know? If we can't help in such a situation, we sure shouldn't make it worse for them. Who does that kind of stuff anyway? JMHO...

RayO said:

Not sure why people are vilifying him for that. He apparently raised his children in a certain religion and through time discovered facts or reasoning that led him to believe that was not right - I think he's within his rights to discuss that with his children. I am not Mormon, but I lived in Salt Lake City for several years and its quite common for people to learn things that they were never taught within the system and then fall away -- especially true in the age of the Internet. In fact I met a whole spectrum of "believers", from those who barely participate to those who are still gung-ho on the "one true church" (their words). Mostly they all get along. If this was so important to Josh and holding firm in that faith was so important to her, it is odd that he agreed to marriage counseling within their church, because then when she made her demand that he become active again, it was certain he would get no compromise on that from the counseling. I do have to believe that since this happened on a Sunday, something about all that might have brought this to a head that particular day.

Of course I hope I am wrong and do hope for the best outcome for Susan and Susan's family.

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I guess it all depends on how he handled it. My guess, from the little I've seen about him, is that he wasn't very graceful about it.

I have a sister who is really antagonistic towards Mormons. We're basically estranged - it got to the point where I couldn't have a conversation with her without getting hammered with religious criticism. Her husband was great for comments that started with, "No offense, but..."

Sure, it was within their right to say whatever they wanted to say to me. If they wanted to say, "No offense, but Mormons are devil worshipers" (the last conversation I had with them about it - more than ten years ago) - well, that was their prerogative. It was also within my right to just avoid them altogether. Marriage is hard enough without that nonsense - especially if it was coming from someone that Josh apparently revered.

RayO said:

Not sure why people are vilifying him for that. He apparently raised his children in a certain religion and through time discovered facts or reasoning that led him to believe that was not right - I think he's within his rights to discuss that with his children. I am not Mormon, but I lived in Salt Lake City for several years and its quite common for people to learn things that they were never taught within the system and then fall away -- especially true in the age of the Internet. In fact I met a whole spectrum of "believers", from those who barely participate to those who are still gung-ho on the "one true church" (their words). Mostly they all get along. If this was so important to Josh and holding firm in that faith was so important to her, it is odd that he agreed to marriage counseling within their church, because then when she made her demand that he become active again, it was certain he would get no compromise on that from the counseling. I do have to believe that since this happened on a Sunday, something about all that might have brought this to a head that particular day.

Of course I hope I am wrong and do hope for the best outcome for Susan and Susan's family.

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This is an interesting perspective worth considering. However, leaving out the anti-LDS literature, we know that the divorce between his mom and dad was drug out for several years with restraining orders and all. All but one of his grown, adult children live with him. AND, his daughter-in-law is missing and the most he has to say is that his son is being villified. I don't have a pretty picture in my mind of this man, but, I do appreciate you opening my mind about the leaving the church scenario. I am not LDS either, but grew up with several. It has always intrigued me. I remember asking them to clarify rumors about strange things I had heard about the religion and the response was something like, 'some people break the rules, are asked to leave the church, or choose to themselves, and then make up far fetched rumors about the church.' Some of that might be true, but some of those rumors might be true too. I guess the question is did Steven Powell go overboard with the discussion...who knows. Still wish I could learn more about him.

harleysnana said:

BBM.... No she did not say that! That is something that was started here.

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ITA, IMO Kiirsi was saying she believed Susan's body could have been dumped out of state. And she was saying where do you start searching? IIRC, she said this because she was getting slammed for not searching. How many turned that around to mean Susan was taken out of state alive, kidnapped, being de-programed is beyond me.

I'm going to add my two cents here, and Kiki I just want you to know that I couldn't agree with you more. I was raised in a Mormon family. My Father is Norwegian, and the only child in his family living in the United States, therefore I was raised entirely with my Mothers family (they are Mormon, my Dad converted for my Mother and then left the church when he left my Mother) . My parents divorced when I was a child, I am the youngest of six children. There were times after the divorce that the Church not only payed our mortgage or rent, they payed our utilities, gave us clothing and shoes and supplied us with ALL of our food from the Mormon storehouse that actually produces and cans its own food products and staples. This went on sometimes for months, until my Mother was able to support us again. My point is this, The Church could have stepped in and helped Josh and the boys STAY IN THEIR HOUSE, IN UTAH, for at least several months and helped to find him paid work... believe you me, they all come together for a church member and family in crisis- especially one in circumstances such as this. Women in the church (many who stay at home to raise their children) could and would have stepped in to help take care of the children while Josh worked AND/OR searched for Susan etc. In the State of Utah, and Salt lake City especially (where a VERY important Temple is located), in all likelihood Church members most likely run the bank that owns Josh's house if not own/partially own the actual Bank itself! This could have and would have been taken care of, I assure you, if that is WHAT JOSH HAD WANTED TO DO! The church is wealthy and has wealthy members that would step in to do whatever is necessary to make this possible. All of the excuses we heard for Josh leaving and going to his Fathers were exactly that- EXCUSES. What we witnessed on television with the turn out to help Josh move was nothing compared to what people would have done to help Josh STAY! I hope this helps clear some of these things up. They were doing the only thing (IMO) that Josh would ALLOW them to do and they WERE doing it for Susan and the boys- NOT Josh!

Kiirsi said, “Monday morning I was doing school with my kids as usual--(I homeschool them)--and at around 10:30 a.m. my cell phone rang. It was Jenny, Josh's sister, who lives here in the Salt Lake valley and is very close to Susan. She sounded tense and worried and asked me when I had last seen or talked to Susan.”

She went on, “I was instantly worried. I told her ‘yesterday, walking home from church; everything seemed fine!’ She asked me if I had a key to their house or garage code. She told me she was at the house with several police cars, that Josh and Susan hadn't gone to work or taken the kids to daycare, that they weren't answering their cell phones or the door - that the daycare provider had gotten worried and called her and Josh's mom, Terri.”

http://www.examiner.com/x-34328-Sea...llewell-Pt-1-The-last-time-I-saw-Susan-Powell


So it was Jenny that went in the home with the police and must have told Mr. Cox about the wet spot.

NG is featuring Susan right now......

Heatherly30 said:

With all due respect, it can't be rocket science. LE must know more than they're telling us. If they searched for Elizabeth Smart in the snow, I would imagine they would search for Susan in the snow, IF they thought she was still out there. They must know where she is, or what's going on, or something deeper that we can't even fathom. It sucks for us who are in the dark, it really does. I wish I knew what they know, and it drives me insane, but they have reasons for keeping it confidential. But it still sucks!

Now, this about Kiirsi...did she say or infer that Susan is being deprogrammed?

There are so many possibilities...

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Yes, I agree. I think LE knows more than they're telling us and they knew it fairly early on. There is a definite reason no one is searching. I think Kiirsi and the family are floating some serious red herrings toward Josh so he gets comfortable and slips up (even more).

diphi said:

Yes, I agree. I think LE knows more than they're telling us and they knew it fairly early on. There is a definite reason no one is searching. I think Kiirsi and the family are floating some serious red herrings toward Josh so he gets comfortable and slips up (even more).

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Josh isn't around them anymore.

Hi Dear People; I am new to WS, long-time lurker. I appreciate the professionalism here, and the caring here. FYI: There is a new vid up on YT regarding asking people to check their memory December 6-8 regarding JP trips. Take Care. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8udgNVodBQ[/ame]

Dr.Fessel said:

Josh isn't around them anymore.

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Sorry. I should have been more specific. I mean, by floating the idea that they think she is still alive somewhere, the blitz, etc., Josh may get a false sense of security.