TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 - #1

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There is another member who is an astrologist (and a really good one) who has been helping us. In general her charts show this was a stranger abductions, that the girls could have been taken from a restroom and also show that Rachel's wedding rings are with the unsub and this evidence may someday be his undoing.

This makes me wonder where the restrooms were at Seminary South - does anyone remember? With the Christmas rush, I would imagine the ones in the department stores would have a long line for the ladies room. So is it possible that the girls went down to the basement to use a restroom that was less known - perhaps one near the former bowling alley?

Diege, do you remember anything about the restrooms at the mall? Was there one in the basement you all knew about?

Maybe they were held in the restroom in the bowling alley by a security person if, and that's if the bowling alley had been shut down. Otherwise, I can't see three girls being taken from any restroom during heavy Christmas shopping. Some other time of the year possibily, but not during the last days before Christmas. It would've been too great a risk for the perp/s.
 
I found this:

DAVID WAYNE McCALL, suspect
Dallas, Texas
Irving man suspect in Indiana killing -- (Dallas News)
An Irving man suspected but not charged in the slayings of a half-dozen Dallas-area women has been a murder suspect in his native Indiana for two decades, police there say. Woman's 1978 murder unsolved; he denies part in any slayings.


I can't find any more information about this guy online. Maybe whoever is in Dallas can check the archives there.

Deige, it would be worth checking with Ft. Worth LE to see if they think this guy was a possibility or if they ever considered him.
 
I still say they were tricked or trusted their abductor, i dont believe it could have been a forced abduction inside the mall or in the parking lot in broad daylight


I would think they may have been tricked even if for an istant. A phony floor walker accusing them of shoplifting in the parking lot or a van parked near to theirs. The only thing about a vehicle purposely parking near is it was the Christmas holidays and parking spots might have been hard to find near a particular spot. I saw the tv show the other night about Ted Bundy and how he used ruses with the arm casts back during that time and wonder if it could have been something similar. How anyone could get 3 scared girls under control is beyond me though. Does anyone think the car could have left the mall with the girls then been taken back there? The thing with the gas station owner still bothers me since someone did report the sighting.
 
Respectfully snipped

txsvicki :
Does anyone think the car could have left the mall with the girls then been taken back there? The thing with the gas station owner still bothers me since someone did report the sighting.

txsvicki, that's certainly a possibility, but I don't see how it would tie in with the sighting the next day.
 
Here is the story of David Wayne McCall. He's obviously a serial killer, but it appears that he was most likely too young to be involved in the trio case. He was 35 in 1995, which would make him 14 in 1974 and living in Indiana. He apparently committed his first murder at age 15 there. Most of his crimes in the DFW area were in the 1990's.

http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/M/McCALL_david_wayne.php
 
there were some large ones upstairs at sears that the stalls were pay toilets in 1973, there were restrooms in the Restaurants, El Chicos, Wyatts, and Bobs(if it was still there) and the largest and free was in the basement on the south side where Razors Edge and the Radio Station were. There were not many public restrooms in most of the stores. And of course the bowling alley had restrooms, but now that i think of it they wouldnt have gone to the bowling alley then to use them, because if it was open they wouldnt like it down there and I think it was closed by then. I wish there were some public records on what was open and when.

What do you mean they wouldn't like it down in the bowling alley if it was open? Was this an area known for criminal activity or was it taken over by teen boys or what?
 
Sent you a PM explaining why

Yes, I got it. I was thinking about the pay toilets. I remember as a teen, I was super frugal - I wouldn't have paid to use the bathroom if I could avoid it - although I seem to remember that in a pay toilet bathroom there was usually at least one stall that was not a pay toilet.
 
yes there was always one free , plus if you were fearless you could crawl under the door
 
It was a hangout for a group of people they might not feel comfortable around.
 
I grew up in Richland Hills and my friends and I used to go to Seminary South to shop back in the mid 70's.
In 74 I was 13 or 14 and I recall one time being at the mall with a friend and she and I were followed by a Hispanic guy.
The basements and tunnels under the mall were mentioned here ealier and I have been down in the lower part of the mall on the day my friend and I were followed.
We happened upon a sign in the mall advertising a childrens beauty pagent so we called my friend's Mother and asked her if we could stay that night and go to the pagent. I remember that we had to go down a flight of long steps to buy our tickets or get information for the pagent and the guy that had been following us on and off all day followed us half way down the stairs then waited on the steps for when we came back up. As we came back up I had to pass him on my side and he reached out and strocked my arm. I don't recall now what or if he said anything...
We did go back to the pagent later that night and it was down the same steps. There was a theater of sorts down there with a stage like in a school. This was not a shopping part of the mall so if you didn't know it was there you would walk right past it.
So there were areas of the mall you could go that were beyond just shopping at that time and there were unsavory charcters lurking around even back then.
At one time I wrote the brother from his missingtrio website and passed on my information of the mall and the guy that followed us around but he never replied.
Maybe none of its nothing but I think every scrap of info is something.
 
Jdee: Thanks for posting your story. That is very interesting. Some similar type things happened to me when I lived in Ft. Worth and was a young teen. It does make me wonder if whatever happened occurred down in the bathrooms near the bowling alley or somewhere in the basement.
 
Hey Princess Rose... My gut feeling on this has always been that this was a stranger abduction. The wierd post card does throw a wrench in it but I still go on my gut feeling.
I don't recall Seminary South being a bad place to hang out back then at all or otherwise I am sure our parents wouldn't have allowed us there...
Everything inside me says these girls didn't run away. They were thinking about Christmas and gifts, new jeans, a promise ring, and a Christmas party.
If something accidental happened to the 9 year old and they blamed themselves... I feel strongly even in panic mode they would have not run away...
Nor would they have left their car.
 
Hi JDee, thanks for joining us. Our ranks seem to have suddenly thinned out. I agree with everything you just said.

I was reading something just last night about serial killers, and how they graduate to killing strangers. Malls are very attractive to serial killers, and it would be a mall and area the person is familiar with because they need to do their deed then dispose of the bodies so they need to feel at ease, know the streets, and how to get around easily. The capture scenarios are rehearsed in their minds and checked out before hand. Obviously LE thinks the girls went with someone they knew, but if they ran into a Bundy type, he could charm them away from the mall. So maybe we should consider a predator with a high IQ, and one who is also socially capable. Problem is I can't think of any serial activity at the time in either Ft. Worth or Dallas. I looked for Dallas girls murdered about the same time, but didn't come across anything that seemed significant.

If I'm not mistaken, there was a serial killer suspected of killing two girls in Maryland, Sheila and Katherine Lyons, and he had a Texas connection. What I'm not sure of is if he was on the loose when the girls here disappeared. The guy was enrolled in Paschal High School at one time, maybe 20 years before the disappearances.

He has been executed for another murder so he won't be spilling any beans about these 5 missing girls. I'm glad he's dead, but I think they should keep these jerks alive long enough to torture them into admitting their other crimes, and without LE giving them information about cases. These creeps should just have to start talking. Sure some kill more than others, but there's got to be a basic pattern or number of kills based on the killer's age.
 
JustThinkin: You're talking about Mike DeBardeleben. Here's his timeline from the Lyon thread:

"Mike DeBardeleben's life in a timeline.

Most significantly - not in jail nor accounted for in March of 1975.
Also please note that he has one daughter about the same age as Sheila and has another child (boy or girl?) in which he "forced" his wife to give up for adoption that would have been roughly the same age as Kate.

Was known to be an anniversary perpetrator - that is committed heinous crimes right around April of each year he was not incarcerated. Actually it appears he committed two separate crimes each spring. This Lyon sisters would then fit in as the first and a pistol whipping of a woman would be a second in March - April - May 1975.

Convicted car thief - police impersonator to lure women into the most sadistic of crimes - was known as the Mall Passer for his counterfeiting behavior which included passing fake 20's at malls - tape recorded his victims - was often in VA and Maryland and DC area.


03/20/1940 0 Born in Little Rock, Arkansas
1945 5 Moved to Austin, Texas. Father shipped to South Pacific for 9 months
1949 9 Family moved from Kentucky to Frankfurt, Germany
1950 10 Family moved again
1956 16 Physically assaulted his mother
09/08/1956 16 Purchased two handguns and ammo with a friend
09/21/1956 16 First arrest; felony arrest for concealed weapon. Soon after first arrest, arrested several
times on charges from theft, sodomy, attempted murder, and kidnapping
05/13/1957 17 Reckless driving offense
Spring
1957 17 Expelled from Peter Schuyler High School
06/26/1957 17 Joined the air force. Shipped to Lackland Air Force Base in Texas
03/1958 18 Court-martialed for variety of offenses: wearing “Improper Insignia and Improper
Uniform” and disorderly behavior. Sentenced to 2 months in Stockade and $155 in pay
forfeited
06/1958 18 Cited for “Unauthorized Absence from Bed Check,” “Breaking Restrictions” twice,
and “Disrespectful to Superiors.” Ordered to visit air force psychiatrist
08/1958 18 Discharged from air force “Under Other Than Honorable Conditions,” and moved to
Fort Worth, Texas with family
01/1959 18 Enrolled at R.L. Paschal High School
03/1959 18/19 Expelled from high school
08/1959 19 Married Linda Weir
08/1959 19 3 weeks later, separated from Linda Weir.
10/5/1959 19 Attempted robbery with accomplice
10/1959 19 2 weeks later, arrested for string of auto thefts. Sentenced to 5 years probation
11/1959 19 Premature daughter stillborn
12/1959 19 Meets Charlotte Weber, 17
03/1960 19/20 Charlotte gets pregnant
06/09/1960 20 Marries Charlotte
12/12/1960 20 Daughter Bethene born
No date 20/21 Charlotte becomes pregnant, forced to give baby up for adoption
08/1961 21 Younger brother, Ralph commits suicide
09/1961 21 Divorced
Summer
1961 21 Enrolls at Texas Christian University without HS diploma and then at North Texas
State University
09/1962 22 Probation for auto theft revoked and sent to Texas State Prison at Huntsville
05/1963 23 Released from prison and lives with parents
03/1964 24 Father files complaint on Mike and is sent to Western State Hospital in Staunton, VA
05/16/1964 24 Comes back home
09/1964 24 Marries Wanda Faye Davis
1965 25 Wanda begins to accompany Mike in criminal acts
1966 26 Charged with assault, sodomy, kidnapping of young girl, but later charges are dropped
04/25/1969 29 Faye is accomplice in kidnap-extortion
No date 29 Faye becomes pregnant, but miscarries when Mike pushes her down the stairs
Aug/1969 29 Faye becomes pregnant, divorce
01/02/1970 29 Daughter, Lindsey born
07/10/1970 30 Marries Caryn, 18
No date N/A Returns to college at George Mason University
04/1971 31 Murders realtor, Terry McDonald
1975 35 Pistol-whips Phillipa Voliner
1976 36 Divorced
1976 36 Caught for counterfeiting for first time
1978 38 Crime Information Center believes Mike is dead
05/05/1978 38 Released to a D.C. halfway house after serving 23 months of his 1976 counterfeiting
sentence in the Federal Penitentiary in Danbury, Connecticut
06/1978 38 Moved to Arlington, VA, took barbering job
07/1978 38 Bought ’77 Thunderbird, which is believed to have been used in the abduction of
nursing student, Lucy Alexander, 19
09/04/1978 38 Posed as a cop to abduct Lucy Alexander. He also raped, sodomized, and forced her to
fallate him repeatedly. She was forced to call him “Daddy” Raped at least 4 times,
performed fallatio 4-5 times over 18 hours
09/05/1978 38 Released Lucy into isolated area known as Hardscrabble, east of Georgetown,
Delaware
02/04/1979 38 Fayetteville, N.C. introduced self as “Al Wise” to Elizabeth Mason, 31 and pretended
to be interested in buying a house. Attacked and assaulted her with an automatic
handgun, tied and gagged, and strangled until unconscious, then stole her car"


It looks to me like his parents lived in Ft. Worth. I found a book about him called Beyond Cruel and the police admit that they really have no idea how many murders this man committed and in addition, he seemed to have a wide variety of criminal talents having been involved in theft, forgery, murder, sex crimes, bank robbing and numerous other crimes. He was indicted 11 times and convicted six times. There seems to be a gap in the timeline in the early 1970's but in reading parts of the book Beyond Cruel, I see that he was victimizing elderly women in the Dallas Ft. Worth area at that time and his wife Caryn reported that there was a woman kept in the attic of their home on Spurgeon Street and police did find evidence of this later. Who knows what else he may have been doing that she was too afraid to report because he forced her to commit crimes with him, often being the first point of contact for the victims. In 1976 he went to prison for conterfeiting and got out in 1978 where he promptly went out and kidnapped a 19 year old by falsly claiming to be an FBI agent. He does seem to be a strong potential for the unsub in this case!

So, I looked up Spurgeon Street and it's not really very far from Seminary South Mall - you could get there easily by taking 820.
 
This creep obviously had no problem socially at least in meeting girls and marrying them. He was likely a charmer, telling teen girls the things they wanted to hear.

My current thoughts are this guy is good for the the three girls murders. The fact that some of his other victims have never been found echoes back to our girls in Ft. Worth, who also have never been found. The Lyons girls' disappearance was also associated with a mall.

Obviously Ft. Worth LE has never even had this guy on their radar for these murders. I'll cut 'em some slack because we didn't have profilers back in 1974, and police weren't as sophisticated on criminals nor were departments sharing information back then. It's a natural assumption given when they disappeared to think that they had to have left the mall with someone they knew. I wonder if one of the 2 older girls knew this guy even casually or knew his wife.

He was charged with attempted murder at age 16 so this guy was bad news from an early age. The other thing is he could have had help from his then current wife. I wonder if it was one of the Ft. Worth girls held in his attic or all three. I doubt the wife who helped him in other crimes, in fear for her own life, would admit to knowing that.
 
I just got through reading again, the story of Debardeleben at:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/debardeleben/service_2.html

I hope it's okay to quote one sentence so long as I reference where it came from.

"In this case, they caught him and then had to go back and find the cases."

This tells me this criminal covered his tracks well.

In the article, they describe Debardeleben as a freak, and certainly he was, but I can't help but think that briefly this guy charmed the girls he married. One marriage only lasted 3 weeks, so Linda Weir quickly knew she'd made a mistake & got the H out. I figure him for a Jekyl & Hyde type with little control as to when Hyde comes out.

I wonder if Ft. Worth LE ever looked at the collection of pictures that Debardeleban had to see if Rachel, Renee, and Julie Ann were among them.

If they haven't, then they need to do this. There are 3 years unaccounted for in the M. D. timeline--that doesn't mean he'd suddenly become a model citizen during that period! I hope with all my might, that these 3 girls didn't die at the hands of Debardeleben.
 
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