09-17-2011 Topaz Mountain Search Yields Charred Wood and Decomp

[tiredblondy]

I certainly hope that LE doesn't take this to hard, they are making way I believe.

Something they found somewhere, led them to this area, and several dogs just happen to hit out here where they are searching ? I do not believe that to be just a lucky shot.

I think Susan was there at some point and has been moved, I also believe he burned her body.
The fact that Josh isn't speaking out like he did the last search prior, tells me, imho only that LE is closing in and he knows it. I am very surprised at the dedication from this LE agency in finding Susan and I just hope that they don't let the wind go out of their sails just yet, there is yet alot of sailing left to do...... moo

Prayers

Not only is he not speaking but his blabber mouth dad isn't talking. I suspect there must really be something in those journals and photos of SP LE took!

I'm very proud of the LE agency too. They know so much more than we do!
I just pray that they find the evidence they need to put both of these two in prison for good.

 

[hollyblue]

Abbott wisely declined to share the details with media.

I don't know what to think of Abbott. LE supposedly had this area under suspicion long ago and he didn't decide to tell LE until they arrived in his area. He stated he knows/knew about Susan's case...so he would have known about Simpson Springs...only 30 miles away. Did he put two and two together...the route to Ely, NV or the back way to Simpson Springs going by Delta? Does he think he saw the van...then or now? Either way he should have called LE...even if it would have been useless info to them. Or is he just someone wanting to interject himself into the case?

 

[HotLavaJavas]

I don't know what to think of Abbott. LE supposedly had this area under suspicion long ago and he didn't decide to tell LE until they arrived in his area. He stated he knows/knew about Susan's case...so he would have known about Simpson Springs...only 30 miles away. Did he put two and two together...the route to Ely, NV or the back way to Simpson Springs going by Delta? Does he think he saw the van...then or now? Either way he should have called LE...even if it would have been useless info to them. Or is he just someone wanting to interject himself into the case?

Evidence without context makes no sense, so he probably didn't see the need. Afterall, the story is Simpson Springs.

Easy to say "na, that wasn't him....I must have been mistaken"

 

[Steely Dan]

do you think all this is an effort to get JP to actually leave again and go visit the right spot? What I mean is maybe she isn't in this area and they know it but are trying to provoke JP to make a slip either verbally or go somewhere for next clue?

I think JP is done with his trips to Utah. He's praying and hoping the cops don't get too close now. I don't think he'd risk anything anymore. He probably is being and/or thinks he is being followed.

Oh no. That's not much of a search without the cadaver sniffing dogs. Without those dogs, they wouldn't have found the woodchips -- and the woodchips just might reveal something related to Susan's body. So we never know. Plus the horses are up high and one can see a lot when one is riding one. When they get to the mines, they should definitely have those dogs with them to smell the air coming from them.

The police aren't definitely saying they are only woodchips. Look at the two posts below.

bbm
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=17284572

In the video piece at that link they say;

Police aren't saying it is charred wood but it looks like charred wood.

So it still could be bone.



Here's something I'm thinking. The original camping trip was to put Susan's body in a mine shaft or hide it somewhere else. (Let me tell you, I've tried to dig frozen earth when I was a teenager. I forget why, and it's impossible. Maybe somebody very strong could do it but I still think it would take more time than JP had that night.) Then JP hears the police are looking around that area so he decides to take the boys camping in August. In the back of the van is a load of wood. Perfectly explainable if he's stopped for any reason.

He then gives the kids something that night to ensure they are fast asleep for hours and takes a bunch of wood and retrieves Susan's body. He digs a pit and fills it with wood and puts Susan's body on top of it. The body burns but not all of it. He digs up almost all of the pieces of wood and remaining body parts and takes the body to a mine shaft he knows has already been searched and dumps it there.

As for the mileage on the rental car it might be because he was searching for a place to bury the body once the ground wasn't frozen anymore. A place where he wouldn't have to worry too much about somebody driving by or someone living nearby.

JMO and just a theory.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I don't know what to think of Abbott. LE supposedly had this area under suspicion long ago and he didn't decide to tell LE until they arrived in his area. He stated he knows/knew about Susan's case...so he would have known about Simpson Springs...only 30 miles away. Did he put two and two together...the route to Ely, NV or the back way to Simpson Springs going by Delta? Does he think he saw the van...then or now? Either way he should have called LE...even if it would have been useless info to them. Or is he just someone wanting to interject himself into the case?

LE moved their search 2 miles to where he saw the activity.11 or so cadaver dogs then hit on the grave site. Legit witness.

 

[hollyblue]

Evidence without context makes no sense, so he probably didn't see the need. Afterall, the story is Simpson Springs.

Easy to say "na, that wasn't him....I must have been mistaken"

I would rather he still called LE and let them decide if he was mistaken. IF it was JP or someone else and had anything to do with Susan, then they might have had a VERY good witness. imo

LE moved their search 2 miles to where he saw the activity.11 or so cadaver dogs then hit on the grave site. Legit witness.

Do we know for certain it was off the info Abbott gave to them...or just the original dog hitting on something that changed the area of focus? I don't believe it can be called a grave site because no human remains have been found.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Case archive updated:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Susan Cox Powell -UT-/

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Do we know for certain it was off the info Abbott gave to them...or just the original dog hitting on something that changed the area of focus? I don't believe it can be called a grave site because no human remains have been found.

We don't have all details. I think we can only speculate on the fragments of data we have and try to make sense of it. If Abbott wants to thrust himself onto the case, say like Carrie Emerson on the Robyn Gardener case, we would have seen him all over the talk shows by now.

 

[MsFacetious]

If they are still searching this area that tells me that they indeed knew JP vehicle stopped at that area and only that area, well maybe besides a gas station.

This is probably the location he camped at and where Susan was, JP probably this past August went out there camped, dug up Susan, and disposed of her elsewhere in the area because JP didn't stop any place else. That is what I'm think LE is thinking.

I am worried that LE is thinking that. That they do have GPS and are looking at it saying "Okay, he went out to Topaz Mountain, to this restaurant and to the gas station before leaving. So he must have moved her to another spot at Topaz Mountain."

Gas Stations, Restaurants, Stores and Hotels ALL have dumpsters.

After 21 months, it would not be a big deal to simply throw a garbage bag in a dumpster... even if you didn't go into the building.
It wouldn't be the first time it happened. No one would notice and really it'd be the smartest thing.

It's a lot easier to find remains when you know to look at Topaz Mountain than it is in a landfill you don't know to search. :twocents:

I'm just seeing tidbits of this as I pop in and out, but are these dogs hitting on anything and everything or is it my imagination?

No... it's all in the media or LE's imagination. It's gotta be.

On another note... how come there hasn't ever been 11 dogs on a Hailey Dunn search? Or a Kyron search?

I was under the impression that there wasn't an HRD dog on every corner... how did they have 11 of them, on hand in Delta, Utah?

Are there really hundreds of HRD dogs in every state? I thought you and Oriah were a bit more rare than that... :innocent:

Way to toss me to the dumb wolves, lmao! Wait, I think I just insulted wolves.

My daughter called me a wolf today... she said I was a "mean wolf." I don't remember what I did. :waitasec:

That saddens me, someone could have taken him there.

*I* would have driven him if I had known he needed a ride! :banghead:

I can't believe nobody in the church or anything set it up so he would have a ride everyday. :waitasec:

 

[Trident]

Wood chips/woodchipper/burn the evidence? Wasn't there talk in the beginning of JP having a generator or some such with him on the camping trip?

 

[Steely Dan]

I am worried that LE is thinking that. That they do have GPS and are looking at it saying "Okay, he went out to Topaz Mountain, to this restaurant and to the gas station before leaving. So he must have moved her to another spot at Topaz Mountain."

Gas Stations, Restaurants, Stores and Hotels ALL have dumpsters.

After 21 months, it would not be a big deal to simply throw a garbage bag in a dumpster... even if you didn't go into the building.
It wouldn't be the first time it happened. No one would notice and really it'd be the smartest thing.

It's a lot easier to find remains when you know to look at Topaz Mountain than it is in a landfill you don't know to search. :twocents:



No... it's all in the media or LE's imagination. It's gotta be.

On another note... how come there hasn't ever been 11 dogs on a Hailey Dunn search? Or a Kyron search?

I was under the impression that there wasn't an HRD dog on every corner... how did they have 11 of them, on hand in Delta, Utah?

Are there really hundreds of HRD dogs in every state? I thought you and Oriah were a bit more rare than that... :innocent:



My daughter called me a wolf today... she said I was a "mean wolf." I don't remember what I did. :waitasec:



*I* would have driven him if I had known he needed a ride! :banghead:

I can't believe nobody in the church or anything set it up so he would have a ride everyday. :waitasec:

BBM

Did you chase down a water buffalo, kill it with your bare hands and eat it raw? :waitasec:

Wood chips/woodchipper/burn the evidence? Wasn't there talk in the beginning of JP having a generator or some such with him on the camping trip?

I would think a wood chipper would be coated in blood and the blood would be flying all over the place and get on JP. JMO

 

[Trident]

BBM
<respectfully snipped>

I would think a wood chipper would be coated in blood and the blood would be flying all over the place and get on JP. JMO

It's been done before - I'm a seething mass of murderous trivia:

"A snowplow driver eventually came forward and said he'd seen the husband using a woodchipper on a bridge over Lake Zoar in Newtown, CT, during a severe snow-storm. This was late on the night of November 19, the night Helle Crafts was last seen. With this new information, police focused their search around that area for many days, and even scanned the icy cold lake for clues. They found many pieces of metal, less than 3 ounces (85 g) of human remains, including a tooth with unique dental work, a toe-nail covered in pink nail polish, bone chips, 2,660 bleached, blonde human hairs, fingernails and O type blood, the same type as Helle Crafts'. Analysis led the police to conclude the remains had gone through a woodchipper. The forensic investigation was led by leading forensic scientist Dr. Henry Lee.[1]
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helle_Crafts"]Helle Crafts - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]



Once again, if you read the link, we have a murder in the home, and a snow storm.

 

[Trident]

On a more mundane note, is it possible someone burned used sanitary napkins in a fire? I believe I read, Haleigh Cummings case, that dogs would hit on sanitary napkins.

 

[TGIRecovered]

I suppose that if one must put a body through a wood chipper, it would be best to freeze it first. Less mess. It would take a while to freeze an entire body and JP didn't have enough time to do that on the first trip.

If Josh burned the body, I doubt he had the time to completely cremate the bones. Besides, the fire would be very stinky and smokey. Keeping a fire like that going for a long period of time would be likely to attract unwanted attention.

 

[Trident]

I suppose that if one must put a body through a wood chipper, it would be best to freeze it first. Less mess. It would take a while to freeze an entire body and JP didn't have enough time to do that on the first trip.

If Josh burned the body, I doubt he had the time to completely cremate the bones. Besides, the fire would be very stinky and smokey. Keeping a fire like that going for a long period of time would be likely to attract unwanted attention.

And your theory, for the burned pieces of wood that the cadaver dogs hit on, would be?

This is a horrible case, but interesting. I don't believe JP is the brightest light on the tree, although he might have had some input from SP. Now SP is a different kettle of fish, to me. He seems dark IMO, maybe steeped in some really weird thoughts, and/or reading/research. I wouldn't put anything past him.

Does anyone know when JP last spoke to SP on the phone?

My opinion only

 

[Ronso]

Are there really hundreds of HRD dogs in every state?

I asked a friend of mine who does SAR and trains HRD dogs and she said she finds it hard to believe that Utah would have 11 HRD dogs at their disposal, so either they are cross-trained (also trained for drug detection, etc.) or they were called in from surrounding states.

 

[Oriah]

I asked a friend of mine who does SAR and trains HRD dogs and she said she finds it hard to believe that Utah would have 11 HRD dogs at their disposal, so either they are cross-trained (also trained for drug detection, etc.) or they were called in from surrounding states.

This is where certification comes into play.

It's easy enough to find 100+ 'cadaver' dogs in, say, a tri-state area.

The question is, who what where and when were they certified- and what do they train for.

 

[passionflower]

Just a thought, could JP have started to burn up Susan's body,
then of course wild life would scatter the remains.
When no one is looking JP/SP go back and move what is left.
SP tells JP go back again (camping trip last month)and get the rest
of what he can find and rebury her?
I read to many books, I guess. Just a thought.......

 

[cocomod]

I am just wondering if this "wood" is a stick (think broom handle) that was used to beat someone. I can see how this would have human DNA on it if someone were beat to death with it.

It bothers me that the dogs did not hit on the soil, just the wood. That to me may indicate that a body was never in that hole. Only the wood. Only the "DNA" on the wood. That would change the senario that JP moved her recently.

 

[hollyblue]

I'm going back and reviewing the media reports again. Just wanted to make note of a few things stated:

Susan disappeared after attending church. --This makes it appear she disappeared early in the afternoon...and leaves much of the day and it's activites out of the picture

LE took both Steven and JP's journals from the WA search. This is the first time I have seen this mentioned. Did they infact take JP's journals also???

Josh sold his house and moved to WA. (He rented it)

Merritt clearly states they found bones.

Merritt said a Juab County forensics team and a Utah state medical examiner have been dispatched to the scene. But he conceded they may not have answers right away.

"He (medical examiner) will be able to confirm that these are human bones, but that's about it," he said

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/Human-remains-found-in-Susan-Cox-Powell-search/dR_5Vk7CyUa0S33hxP1TcA.cspx