2008.12.18 Deputy Richard Cain Interview "Cop Who Got Fired!"

[RR0004]

Snipped and bolded by me

What's the difference between the OP expressing an opinion about this deputy's guilt regarding the charges laid against him by LE, and all the multiple posters who daily express on this forum their belief that KC is guilty of the charges against her? Both 'accused' have the right of due process and the right to be presumed innocent until they have had a fair hearing but I don't see many people protesting that KC has been subjected to an unfair doctrine or that it's wrong to make assumptions that one side is all correct and the other side immediately wrong in her case. In essence it's exactly the same situation, except that Cain is in the position of 'defendant', and yet you seem to be advocating that he is fully entitled to defend himself whilst at the same time expressing some contempt for anything KC's defence might do on her behalf!

All I can say is when Casey comes out with something that smacks of the truth I'll be more than happy to rethink my position on her guilt/innocence. And I mean something that makes sense. I'm afraid, though, that will never happen as I truly believe she's a sociopath. The truth is a totally foreign concept to her. IMO it's a whole different ball of wax comparing her with the deputy.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

[/I]

It's clear from your post that you misunderstand standard operating procedures within various LE agencies. My points were, this has become an open attack against the Deputy and viewing the various reactions on this topic, its exactly the type of negative activity defense loves to see. One of the objectives for the defense is to make LE look shoddy and the phrase Junk Science should come to mind, pick apart one pick apart all. If and I say if the Deputy is guilty of inattention to duty then that will be determined by his day before the board and or court. Due process is his right. LE took the direction they felt they needed to take as did the city, now the Deputy comes forward via challenge. It is what it is.

Officer Cain was demoted for doing shoddy work, he was fired for lying about it! Have any of you who are sympathetic to this guy read the interviews he gave? He lied, tried to put off blame on to his supervisor and was rude to a witness!

What does sympathy have to do with technical issue's? Others have their views too and if their empathetic their empathetic, varying views are healthy for a discussion. You appear to be also calling the Deputy a liar, prior to his full due process rights because of what you read and upon your reading it at only face value.. This makes one side all correct and the other side immediately wrong, plus let alone guilty right off the bat. Please take that into consideration as that does not seem like its fair doctrine. Maybe your views come from your interpretation of his interviews. Either way he still also has rights and that's important. Or maybe your concerned his alleged actions or in-actions will negatively affect the outcome of the case to a great degree? I think not but then again I see through what's really occurring within this saga.

I'm further confused on how you perceive demotion for a Deputy who is entitled to his full due process. The Deputy was not demoted he was required to turn in his gear and equipment, its procedural. Is the Independent Review Board looking to fire him? Yes in short. The Deputy was still working last I read. Again this is where his due process rights came into play. Surly you don't have a problem with his rights to a fair hearing since the Independent Review is the beginning process in this procedure?

The news headlines had him fired which was not factual, unfortunately this issue has stirred up a few peoples negative perceptions though, such a shame. I'm not taking this personal and I trust the SA and LE have done an amazingly good job with both the investigation and all the curves thrown in heeding their established evidence aka defense's negative ploy, attack LE/FBI/SA Junk Science, etc. I'm very familiar with how Defense operates in order to serve their best interest aka their clients. Defense will always pick apart LE if needed, its a given. Junk Science and this story tells me Defense is floundering!

My final words are Justice for Caylee is all that matters. I'm not easily side tracked by defense's tactic angles of swaying.

Sorry Check, but I have go with the others here. I did read the entire file and that deputy was fired (or whatever) with good cause in my opinion.

My best friend is a Captain with a sheriff's department and I work with LE all the time with the dogs, but this man did not follow procedure and he certainly did lie to not only the detectives trying to investigate the murder, but it appears also to internal affairs.

The man was either too lazy or not interested enough in his job to do it properly and by procedures. I do understand how the defense will try to spin this, but the truth is all the witnesses tell contradictory stories to what this man told. It is not a conspiracy to get his job.........it is just a case of incompetence on his part which could have helped the detectives find that body in August if followed up according to proper procedures.

I can't give him even the courtesy of waiting on what you consider " his due process" on this one, because the written and sworn testimony does not warrant this even be reconsidered in my opinion. It reads to me like he had more than enough "due process" with all the conflicting interviews made available to him prior.

It appears to me that the other officers in this case, felt like he was neglectful in his duties also, which in my experience is typical of officers who take their careers seriously. They do not want persons who are negligent in their duties ruining the name of hard working law enforcement personnel.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

Snipped and bolded by me

What's the difference between the OP expressing an opinion about this deputy's guilt regarding the charges laid against him by LE, and all the multiple posters who daily express on this forum their belief that KC is guilty of the charges against her? Both 'accused' have the right of due process and the right to be presumed innocent until they have had a fair hearing but I don't see many people protesting that KC has been subjected to an unfair doctrine or that it's wrong to make assumptions that one side is all correct and the other side immediately wrong in her case. In essence it's exactly the same situation, except that Cain is in the position of 'defendant', and yet you seem to be advocating that he is fully entitled to defend himself whilst at the same time expressing some contempt for anything KC's defence might do on her behalf!

He didn't kill Caylee !!

A screw up on a job is not even close to a murder of your own 34 month old baby.

 

[snow_walker]

I can't see that the whole incident makes any great deal of difference, for either the prosecution or the defence, as far as the outcome of the trial goes. He appears to have done a pretty poor job of things, and as a result the remains weren't found for months after they should have been. That is so sad, from the humananitarian stand point.. little Caylee should have been found and the sufferring and apprehensive waiting so many people went through during those months should not have happened.

But, really.. the case itself remains the same, it is pretty obvious no one 'placed' the body there, after last summer, judging by what the experts say about the vegetation around the remains.

And of course no one judges the whole LE force from one incident, adults work in a real world, where we all know some members of each and every given group are incompetent or goof up at least some of the time. Take a look around your own workplace, and note if there is anyone who would be likely to commit a similar goof, in a similar situation. You will now the one goof up artist in the place right away.. we all recognize them. Does that mean you or most of the people working there don't do your jobs properly? Of course not!

The media just need some new incident to go on about each day, and it is usually something pretty trivial, or at least it gets blown out of proportion to it's seriousness.

So ... in my opinion, no big deal as far as the ultimate result of the trial goes, just a sad situation from the human point of view.

 

[Cayleefan]

I usually wouldn't want anyone to get fired. But, this guy should've really checked. Not to sound so harsh but, either do your job or don't do it at all. JMO

 

[leophoenix]

Due process on a non government type job is this. If doing sloppy work and lying about it. Due Process= Having someone escorting you to the door and telling you to get lost. If anything cops should be held above the public for truth and honor but, often that is not so. Any type of appeal is handled privately.

Due Process For Cops:
This man: Laziness, sloppy work, rude to informant, lying, whatever else. He still gets to appeal!

But, this is not at all uncommon:
Officer has police called on him 34 times for beating his wife is finally fired after she sued the city. He is removed from duty.
Gets hired one city over, fired for drunk driving and wrecking police cruiser.
Gets hired one more city over, gets arrested for running over a bunch of children at a crosswalk, drunk on duty.
He was fired publicly but, in reality he is just shuffled around with favors.

My dad whom is a senior citizen goes out with my mom to meet friends. They find a small child (about 2yrs old) sitting in front of a bar. Child doesn't know where his parents are. Dad goes in and calls the police. They arrive and threaten to arrest my father for having an interest in this child. They publicly accuse him of being a child molester. They tell him to hit the road and this child is none of their concern. Threaten to arrest both my parents. Accuse my mother of being a drug addict because she walks stiff (double knee replacement). Parents watch in horror as the child plays in traffic and vanishes around the corner while feeling helpless to do anything.

Officer has 3 Pit Bull dogs behind his home starving while one is already dead. He is accused of animal cruelty. Minimum punishment for such an act for the citizen is 2 years prison. His punishment was 4 hours in a jail cell and he still keeps his job. The person that reported him had to move because of police harassment.

This is just recent from my little town, and the story goes on and on. This man like these other examples are horrible for the community. They degrade trust in the police with the public. Whom wants to call the police on any matter only to be yelled at? Times are tough, if they don't want to do the job and do it at least halfway correctly. Fire them immediately. They are here to make life go smoothly, not create more bumps in the road.

 

[mysteriew]

He didn't kill Caylee !!

A screw up on a job is not even close to a murder of your own 34 month old baby.

No he isn't accused of killing Caylee. But that wasn't what he was fired for. He was fired for dereliction of duty. When a police officer is derelict in his duty, he can possibly endanger his fellow officers as well as the citizens he is sworn to protect. That is why he was fired.

Sad? Yes. To prevent his firing all he had to do was walk into the woods a few yards and look into a bag. But he didn't want to do that. Was it because he didn't believe the tip was valid, because he feared the danger of a rattlesnake, or because he didn't want to get his pants dirty? Doesn't matter. But it is an indicator that he couldn't be counted on to do his duty in an emergency. The rest of the team traced down sightings, followed up on psychic tips and otherwise followed up on faint possibilities- even if they didn't believe in them. The rest of the team went on searches, braved snakes and alligators- without complaint. The rest of the team got dirty, and hot and sweaty. But they had a job to do and they did it. And when the first search was fruitless, they did it again.

Let's say that they keep him on. And what happens when the situation comes up again. He is faced with a situation where he might get dirty, or be in danger or doesn't believe. Or maybe just because he didn't want to write up the report. Who is to say that he won't do the same thing and blow it off- like he has before? Instead of leaving a baby's corpse in the elements, it could result in some one's loss of life.

Much of a cop's authority is also based on their integrity. That yes, they might make mistakes, but they must own up to them. That their word is true. They write reports on actions, they take witness testimony, they testify in court. And if their word cannot be trusted, then their ability to do their job is seriously undermined. What if the next arrest he made, the arrestee banged his head. But later claimed that the deputy did it. Could you really trust the deputy when he denied doing it? The weird thing about this is, that if he had gone into this and said "hey yeah, I made a mistake, we were busy or I was tired and didn't do what I knew I should have". He most likely would have been disciplined, but still have a job. But just like the other deputy, he made a decision to roll the dice and see if he could get by with it. He tried to hide the truth, and got caught.

Not to mention the PR aspect of this. What he did reflected badly on the PD. And could result in a public loss of faith in the PD. And that faith in the PD is very necessary. Without faith that the PD will investigate tips and complaints, the public quits reporting. The crime increases. Fewer criminals are taken off the street, and the better a criminal career looks and the more crime escalates.

Yes, I feel sorry for his family. He is or may be without a job. If he doesn't win this appeal and that will be as hard on his family as any other family whose parent went to work and didn't do their job and got fired. I wish he had considered that before he made the decision to blow Kronk and his tip off. Or blow off the tip about the bag of stuffed animals that were found during a search. Or any other duty he may have shirked for whatever reason.

Due process, yes he is entitled to it and he will get it. But in the meantime the public can at least feel that their police department is trying to do the right thing. And if they have dotted all their I's and crossed all of their T's properly, then maybe they will get rid of him.

 

[CheckDaFacts]

Leophoenix as well as other sleuthers:
Due process on a non government type job is this. If doing sloppy work and lying about it. Due Process= Having someone escorting you to the door and telling you to get lost. If anything cops should be held above the public for truth and honor but, often that is not so. Any type of appeal is handled privately. "Quote"

Majority get the Truth and Honor dedication, now it would be really nice if the public held to that policy as well, often that is not so! Sorry for a moment, I was lost in Disney make believe land. Some of those perps out there are kinda outta control.

Not sure what you mean in the way of non government type job?
He is or was a Deputy, its a governmental job in his case municipal and if he has a contract he has rights. If an LE agency has contracts which cover appeals in house, then it is what it is. If an appeal goes to court its no longer private. Where has this Deputy been afforded privacy? Do you feel its an in house thing or were you speaking in general? He has not been shielded, this thread is showing that. The guy is taking plenty of pot shots too. Ahhh, now don't throw your cup at the screen

I find this thread interesting due to the out raged passion and some of it's misplaced but not uncommon for LE to experience, yep I said it. :sumo:I have seen numerous Officer's disciplined and many and I do mean many complaints are not on target. Yes, the witness's give statements and there are interviews and decisions which do not jive together in the end product and the Officer wins, I have also seen them dismissed. I too was not enchanted with the beginning interviews but the rest of what your bringing into this discussion Phoenix, does not have a bearing on this Deputy, "or does it via perception across the board?" Some of your comments render on negative perceptions to a great degree and IMO this is a partial point of this thread? I see many here are in support of LE even though they appear disgusted with this one Deputy, good. I don't feel it will hold badly for the end all investigation but it will and is still going to be pounced upon by defense.

Turbo U b right he sure didn't do what Casey has been accused of doing, interesting another wanted to compare those apple and oranges though. Again it all follows that ole perception and the rattling of the gate via defense's eventual tactic's, tit for tat bam.

Some feel this Deputy was not fit to wear a badge? I wonder if he had any good write ups? I didn't see that mentioned, maybe I missed it? I'm chatin here with you guys on this topic but I do agree I don't feel it plays heavy into this case, only that it will be touched upon by defense, "see LE is shoddy," kinda like a balancing act for the defense. Or CA depo, "what's the C for, huh, huh," LOL. :stretch:
Personally I think its moot but how many doubters/haters are really out there when it comes to LE, lots! Many can toss up a negative experience or a few, a story, yada, yada, example set. Phoenix not saying you are, just trying to address an example of how this works in defense's favor.

While I was being knocked off the board, Mystery just brought up the PR aspect which goes to my point of perception. Although I need to respond to the comment about increase in crime, the public won't report the losing faith in LE. While there are more decent officer's than the opposite. Some of this reads like a CAPS book, egad. Crime is not set based on trust alone in LE. There are far too many other factors that contribute to crime to even go into that issue. How true about integrity. I'm confused on this. So if he had been forthright, he would have been just disciplined as you mentioned but what happened to the 1st point? "When a police officer is derelict in his duty, he can possibly endanger his fellow officers as well as the citizens he is sworn to protect. That is why he was fired."
Seems, if the 1st line is taken seriously and he still blew off his job, just saying why is it again PD would want to retain him, since he possibly could be a danger to other's?

Now I wonder how his fellow Officer's felt about him as well. Were you part of the team who went out? Fair question, are you LE/PD and part of that team? Your posting seems to be written like you were there? Your comments especially here, make me curious? "The rest of the team traced down sightings, followed up on psychic tips and otherwise". I thought this Deputy was working on his day off, kinda like OT? Not making up excuses for what occurred just plain curious now, due to your style of posting your points with broken windows.

 

[Devon]

He didn't kill Caylee !!

A screw up on a job is not even close to a murder of your own 34 month old baby.

Did I miss the trial then? As far as I am aware, it hasn't been established that KC did murder Caylee, only that she is suspected and accused of it. A such, she has the same right to due process, a fair hearing and a presumption of innocence as the OP was arguing as Cain's right. If anything, IMO since the crime she is accused of is much more heinous than Cain's alleged wrongdoing, and the potential consequences for her so much more serious, her rights should be recognised, acknowledged and upheld to the letter. Isn't that what your constitution provides, and isn't that what you would expect if it was you accused of some crime?

 

[akashana]

IMHO, this deputy should definitely lose his job. He realized this was a high profile case, and he either knew or should have known that the close proximity to the Anthony home could indicate this was a major breakthrough in the case. For him to have Kronk there at the scene and fail to request him to accompany him into the woods and indicate where he thought the remains were is pure laziness. It might have taken an extra five or ten minutes, yet resulted in the discovery that would have brought Caylee out of the woods much sooner and with possibly more forensic evidence available. Cain was no armchair sleuth or a curious meter reader; he was a deputy sheriff sworn to uphold the law and bound by rules of investigation regarding alleged evidence. At best he is incompetent. But there should be no place in LE or either the lazy or the incompetent.

While I am not questioning Cain's right to appeal, I can't help but consider how lucky he is to have the option of continuing to earn a salary after being terminated pending appeal. I'm sure that there are many folks across America who have lost jobs through no fault of their own due to the economic crisis. I bet that these same people would love to have the same appeal process as recourse to them. I understand the difference between civil service jobs and jobs within the private sector, and that different rules apply. But I find it harder to feel sorry for Dy. Cain than poor Joe Blow that got pink-slipped from his factory job because of it.

 

[zoomom]

http://cayleeanthony.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/casey-anthony-gas-can2.jpg

YES!! it was Cain and the gas cans!!!

UN-friggin Believable!!!

 

[coco puff]

SO:

Kronk thought she was there
The PI's thought she was there
Cain didn't think she was there but now LE thinks she has been there the whole time
Tim Miller's team couldn't look there
Cindy thought she was there and now doesn't think she was there when she thought she was there BUT was put there LATER

how does KC put??? are ya KIDDING me??

 

[Lanie]

The bottom line is that KC could walk because this guy did not do his job properly, and then to save his own skin, he lied about it. You can't have someone like this on the force, period.

Exactly. It is not 'just because' he didn't see a bag. He lied when he was questioned about what happened. I read his interviews, and it came across to me as very sloppy police work. He originally said Kronk was standing right behind him agreeing that was the bag, he opened it up, the bottom fell out and it was just sticks and tree junk. Later it turns into he poked it with his baton and it looked like it had twigs in it, while Kronk was still up on the road.
Years ago, I had several friends go into nursing. They complained about how hard the school work was. I found it to be very easy, and probably could have aced the course. I even spent a minute or two thinking about becoming a nurse, but the bottom line is, while I have the brains for it, I don't have the personality, and body fluids gag me. So, I'm not a nurse. IMO, if you don't want to sludge around in snake-infested swamps looking for dead bodies, don't be a cop in Florida.
This probably won't be popular, but I don't feel like he is yet another casualty of Casey. He chose to be a cop, he is paid to be a cop, and I don't care if he was following up on 100 tips a day, he should have done a thorough job of it, and from the info I have, he did not. There are just some professions out there, including law enforcement, that just doing the bare minimum to draw a paycheck is not good enough. This isn't a fast-food place where he was lazy about putting the pickles on the hamburgers, this was the body of a murdered little girl that IMO was probably within 10 feet of him and he was just too lazy to look for her. This is inexcusable.
Lanie

 

[Baxter]

Did I miss the trial then? As far as I am aware, it hasn't been established that KC did murder Caylee, only that she is suspected and accused of it. A such, she has the same right to due process, a fair hearing and a presumption of innocence as the OP was arguing as Cain's right. If anything, IMO since the crime she is accused of is much more heinous than Cain's alleged wrongdoing, and the potential consequences for her so much more serious, her rights should be recognised, acknowledged and upheld to the letter. Isn't that what your constitution provides, and isn't that what you would expect if it was you accused of some crime?

I do not presume Casey is innocent. I looked at the facts and made my decision. WS is not the trial and we are not the jury.

 

[Devon]

I do not presume Casey is innocent. I looked at the facts and made my decision. WS is not the trial and we are not the jury.

Precisely, just as the OP (that the particular poster I responded to was originally quoting) had read the reports on Cain's alleged wrongdoing and decided, in his opinion, that the deputy was guilty of what he is accused of. The responding poster stated that it was unfair to reach such a conclusion based upon evidence from one side only and before the deputy has had a chance to defend himself and have the benefit of due process and a fair hearing, and my response was that this was no different from what so many posters do on this forum by declaring their belief that KC is guilty before she has had the benefit of the same rights.

So whether you believe that we should withhold our opinions and conclusions until the person accused has had the benefit of these rights, or whether you believe that we are entitled to make up our minds at any point we like, my real point is, to coin an Old English idiom: 'what's sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander'.

 

[wendi]

sure took long enough for thme to do it!

 

[whiteangora]

I do not presume Casey is innocent. I looked at the facts and made my decision. WS is not the trial and we are not the jury.

It looks like the State of Florida is leaning towards Guilty.
The Death Penalty is back on the table. There must be some
dynamite evidence besides what we already knew about, which in
it's self was enough to plug in ol sparky.
Kudos to the Orange Co Sheriff's Office and the FBI.:dance:

 

[Patty G]

12/18/08 Interview (Released Doc Dump 5/1/09)
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/cainintv.pdf

 

[Tonia]

Cain was not at all interested in anything found in that woods. Not by Kronk or Keith- I wonder if he knows the A's personally or atleast OC on some level.

the DC story of why he was out there searching is starting to run parallel to Keiths psychic story - wonder if keith went to the trouble of telling CA that story as well. IMO

 

[Indianagirl]

I seriously can't believe how Cain handled this investingation.... Any of us sleuthers would have done better!


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2009-05/46650960.pdf p. 24

JA: If somebody said, if, if, if, if if, if, if you go to a call tomorrow, let’s say tomorrow
you’re working and somebody calls up and says, I found a bag that might have some bones in it, uh, and you go to the place where the person points to and, and, and you go in there and you don’t see a bag, would it be reasonable to go back to the person and go, hey, I don’t, I don’t see a bag. What, what is it you’re talking about? Would that be reasonable?

RC: Yes.

JA: Okay. What other, what other ways, what other ways to handle that call might be reasonable?

RC: Maybe ask him to go find it.

JA: Okay.

YM: Did you?

JA: You do any of those things?

RC: No.