2010.07.12 - How Much Did Caylee Say?

[Reagan]

And I guess to be on topic... My nephew was a few months older than Caylee when her life was so callously taken from her. Like Caylee, my nephew was mostly around adults (he did have playmates his age at least) so his vocabulary was a little bit more extensive than other children.
I remember around that age, we were eating lunch, and I told my nephew to wash down his food with some agua (he's got the bilingual thing going too!). He told me that water was good for you and it keeps you 'hydrated'. As I picked my jaw up from the floor, I asked him who taught him that word, and he said his abuelita did. That kid is a sponge.

They don't have Bill Cosby host 'Kids say the darndest things' for nothing!

 

[Searchfortruth]

I thought someone said earlier that Caylee would have had a captive audience with Cindy?
Sorry, I probably have read right over it ~ but, I wanted to comment on that; and agree 100%.

In EVERY SINGLE video that we have seen that was done by Casey, there is absolutly no interaction at all.
No "say this, do this or that", nothing, period.

When Casey and Caylee were together, I imagine that she was totally ignored, told to shut up, go to her bedroom, sit down, get out of my way, just a minute and so forth ~
Casey wouldn't have had any idea just exactly what Caylee was capable of telling is she was constantly being told to shut up, or, being ignored.
It went right over Casey's head until it was to late.

So, yes, if Caylee was with George or Cindy, she would have probably been chatting up a storm, non stop.

And, then, I have visions of some of the last photos of Caylee that we have been allowed to see, and there is something WRONG ~
The dark circles under her eyes, the sadnes in them, leary, scared looks at Casey, and a general distance being held by Caylee towards Casey, IMO, in most of those that I have seen.

BBM. And this, I believe, is the reason for Cindy's statement that Casey was going off to "bond" with Caylee. Most mothers of two year old children are already bonded, very tightly. Cindy gives herself away.

 

[Purple Iris]

Another video of Caylee that REALLY bothers me is one of her in a bedroom; the room is darkened, and she is playing, jumping on the bed, then, peers out the window, and goes toward "whoever or whatever" is videoing her.

I always thought that this video was caught on a NannyCam, and that Caylee was in the guest bedroom of the Anthony home.
It clearly was not George and Cindy's bedroom, or Casey's or Caylee.

I think that little Caylee entertained herself often.

There was no singing, or gibberish, no mouth movements in the event that there was no sound on the video.
She was used to be being quiet and left to herself, IMO.

 

[Jenny60123]

I thought someone said earlier that Caylee would have had a captive audience with Cindy?
Sorry, I probably have read right over it ~ but, I wanted to comment on that; and agree 100%.

In EVERY SINGLE video that we have seen that was done by Casey, there is absolutly no interaction at all.
No "say this, do this or that", nothing, period.

When Casey and Caylee were together, I imagine that she was totally ignored, told to shut up, go to her bedroom, sit down, get out of my way, just a minute and so forth ~
Casey wouldn't have had any idea just exactly what Caylee was capable of telling is she was constantly being told to shut up, or, being ignored.
It went right over Casey's head until it was to late.

So, yes, if Caylee was with George or Cindy, she would have probably been chatting up a storm, non stop.

And, then, I have visions of some of the last photos of Caylee that we have been allowed to see, and there is something WRONG ~
The dark circles under her eyes, the sadnes in them, leary, scared looks at Casey, and a general distance being held by Caylee towards Casey, IMO, in most of those that I have seen.

I completely whole heartedly agree.

 

[Leila]

my sons are 21 and 25 and they're still one of my top three topics.

I'm pretty sure that the drive home with Caylee was enlightening for Cindy. She does n't seem the type to silently stew and I think she and Casey liked to have info to fling at each other in a fight.

I tend to lean toward a big ole war of words between Cindy and Casey that ended with Casey slamming out the door shouting that they'll never see her and Caylee again. I figure it started with the stolen funds and whatever Caylee passed on to grandma and then was fueled by Cindy throwing everything at her (no job, ungrateful, liar, thief, hussy, bad momma) while George was busy being George and standing idley by wringing his hands and letting them duke it out until he had to pull Cindy off Casey and that allowed Casey to hit the road dragging poor Caylee behind her, poor tired Caylee who must've been scared and crying.
At some point, in the car, Caylee being an overtired child either started whining or started crying wanting Cindy and it lit the fuse in Casey who we know blames everyone but herself. She was already simmering in anger and may have just plain lost it and either willfully killed Caylee or struck out at her causing an injury that untreated caused death. The taping of her mouth, in my opinion, occured with a "now you'll shut up won't you...see what you did/made me do you little snot" type comment.

to Websleuths Marshmallow! I too am originally from the area - Canandaigua, now in southern California.

George was working the late shift that night and didn't get home until after 11:00pm, so evidently he wasn't there when the fight took place.

I too think it was a royal battle in which Cindy confronted Casey with everything.........the stolen money, and what she had learned from Caylee that confirmed her suspicions about Casey's activities. I'm sure that Caylee provided some details, and that was all Cindy needed to know.

I've always been suspicious of the story George told about seeing Casey and Caylee leave the next day, June 16th, at about 12:50pm as he was watching a cooking program on television. George provided way too much detail about the clothing they were wearing and other details about that day for someone to remember more than a month later. I've always felt that George's story was just that.....a story......for the purpose of distraction. GA and CA wanted to make sure that if anyone learned of the fight the night before, George's story would show that all was okay by the next day. George's story also leads people to think that whatever happened to Caylee happened after Casey and Caylee left the house for a typical day. The purpose was to minimize the fight, and place what happened to Caylee outside the Anthony home.

In reality, I think Casey took Caylee and left home, but stayed within the neighborhood.

 

[Paintr]

to Websleuths Marshmallow! I too am originally from the area - Canandaigua, now in southern California.

George was working the late shift that night and didn't get home until after 11:00pm, so evidently he wasn't there when the fight took place.

I too think it was a royal battle in which Cindy confronted Casey with everything.........the stolen money, and what she had learned from Caylee that confirmed her suspicions about Casey's activities. I'm sure that Caylee provided some details, and that was all Cindy needed to know.

I've always been suspicious of the story George told about seeing Casey and Caylee leave the next day, June 16th, at about 12:50pm as he was watching a cooking program on television. George provided way too much detail about the clothing they were wearing and other details about that day for someone to remember more than a month later. I've always felt that George's story was just that.....a story......for the purpose of distraction. GA and CA wanted to make sure that if anyone learned of the fight the night before, George's story would show that all was okay by the next day. George's story also leads people to think that whatever happened to Caylee happened after Casey and Caylee left the house for a typical day. The purpose was to minimize the fight, and place what happened to Caylee outside the Anthony home.

In reality, I think Casey took Caylee and left home, but stayed within the neighborhood.

ITA Leila. My theory has always been that KC parked somewhere close, my guess was the school yard, and did her texting and talking to TonE from there.

 

[Baldwin]

this was a excellent point. it seems like possibly cindy overlooked it or more upset with the fact that she didnt do something that could have possibly prevented the outcome. She lost her granddaughter. Im sure she doesnt wanna lose her daughter too.

 

[Leila]

The sad thing is, IMO, I feel, Caylee would not have lived a long life in that family as long as KC had control of her. KC did not want Cindy, George and for that fact Lee knowing her business unless she wanted them to know it.

IMO - Caylee could and did, tell Cindy what her day’s were like, when Cindy would ask and when Caylee would talk without coaching. This I believe 100%. IMO - I think that Father’s Day, Cindy learned a lot of what was going on in Caylee’s life with her mother, and it was not good. IMO - KC was going to do away with Caylee anyway. KC knew it would be soon that Caylee was going to start telling on her. I believe Cindy confronted KC and that is the reason for the Duct Tape on Caylee’s face, to shut her up forever.

I think as long as Casey had control of Caylee, her days were numbered.

Cindy had to have known that Casey was an unfit mother. Very early in the case it was reported that she did consult with a therapist and was told to kick Casey out of the house and get custody of Caylee. Certainly, for a therapist to advise her to do that, there had to have been some evidence of Casey being an unfit mother.

Sadly, Cindy handled all this the wrong way. Had she refrained from getting into any confrontations with Casey, didn't let on to Casey what she knew, and quietly went about putting all the pieces in place legally for getting custody, and had involved child protective services, Caylee might have survived.

If Cindy had planned on confronting Casey the night of June 15th, she could have left Caylee at her mother's for the night on June 15th, or with a trusted babysitter, Caylee wouldn't have been in the battle zone and within Casey's easy reach.

 

[Purple Iris]

I know that medical records are private, and esp with the new HIPA Laws, but, I wonder if it is possible to have those therapists records brought into court; even though they are under Cindy's name, and, not Casey's.

There could be a real story there, also.

 

[Bobbisangel]

And I'm sure CA put her foot down if GA wanted to grill KC about her lies.

If they had an idea that things weren't as Casey said they were why in the world didn't they casually question Caylee and get to the truth and then confront Casey together? If there was no babysitter then there was no job.
What was Casey doing all day? Why the need to lie?

I think they didn't confront Casey because they didn't want to make waves. They wanted things to run smoothly in the home as often as possible. Confronting Casey would have created a huge screaming scene. I think they gave in to her all of the time to keep the peace. I would bet that more often then not Casey caused chaos. I also think that they feared Casey would take Caylee and never let them see her if they gave her to much trouble...trouble according to Casey.

If they had just prevented Casey from taking Caylee that night...if they had just stood up to her and taken Caylee physically away from her and told her to get out...Caylee would probably be alive. They just didn't care about Caylee enough then and they don't now!

 

[cecybeans]

I'm thinking the theft with Shirley was already over and done with. It happened sometime in April, IIRC, when she found that KC's birthday check from March had been used to get into the account. CA had probably already made good on that and swept it under the rug. Because it had to have showed up on her statement from April. I would imagine she told CA right away about that.

However, I believe KC had taken Caylee from the house perhaps on June 9, because that's the date everyone fixated on when they first thought that was the last time they'd seen Caylee. RM says she was over there spending the night on the 10th. And we all know that he said Caylee had slept in the room with them.

I'm thinking that when Caylee came back home on the 14th, so that Cindy could take her to Mt. Dora for Father's Day, CA was anxious to know where they had been all week. She left to drive herself and Caylee at 9 am or so the next day. And I'm sure that on the way there and back, CA was doing her best to get answers out of Caylee as to where she was staying with her mommy and who else was there.

If CA found out that Caylee was sleeping in RM's room with her mom, had seen things she shouldn't, or had spent any time "sleeping in the trunk" then I'm sure she would have hit the fan. And to me that is more of a reason for the big blow-up that night than anything else. After all, KC had been stealing from them for years and years and allegedly Cindy used most of her 401k to pay things off. The $4400 thing wasn't that long before. I just don't see it being a tipping point that would make KC mad enough to kill Caylee from spite.

But if CA threatened to take her away that night, accused her of living an inappropriate life in front of her granddaughter then I can see KC being furious and vindictive enough to take Caylee out of the house and using her to punish CA. CA would have no reason to deny a fight taking place over the money in her dad's account - anyone would understand that. The fact she vehemently denies the fight took place at all makes me think it was entirely about Caylee and CA knows it would scream motive.

 

[Purple Iris]

I also believe that at the very least Cindy, as nosey as she is, knew that Casey was NOT working, and probably knew for some time at that.

Casey does not strike me as the type of person that could get up every day, even at various hours to leave the house to go to "a job", and be all showered, gussied up, etc, to only drive up the street to the school til the coast was clear.

Now, maybe George didn't really know, but, IMO, Cindy did. He has made comments about checking into her jobs, and it p-o'd Cindy off to no end.
Why be angry about George checking into a job IF Casey really had one?

George didn't like having to "share" his ill begotton $$ from Cindy, and with Casey not working, there was a lot of double-dipping going on in that home that Cindy had to cover.

 

[Gma Kat]

I beleive as well that Caylee told Cindy something on the car ride home, and it could have been anything or a combination of a bunch of things such as:
Cindy knew the money was stolen, she could have realised then that Casey was not working and asked Caylee, where do you and mama go when I'm at work? and Caylee said something like we go to Ricardo's house and sleep or we go to Tony's house and mommy dances and she gives me medicine so I dont bother her. Or we go to Tony's and mommy and Tony go to bed in Tony's room and so-in-so watches me and this set Cindy off, and Cindy confronted Casey, and they had a fight, Casey duct tapes Caylee's mouth as punishment for telling and Caylee sufficates. Casey panics

I agree that I think Caylee may have said something that gave away KC....not working, etc., it must have been something that directly affected CA, otherwise I don't think CA would have cared quite frankly. But if Caylee let CA know somehow that KC wasn't working.....that would make sense. I'm not really impressed with Caylee's communication skills, but I've only seen what has been released - which could be misleading. I do know that when it comes to such young children, you have to be careful how you question them, so as not to lead them. We were questioning my grandson about a bruise he received while being babysat. To figure out if it was innocent or not.....he insisted his mommy beat him with a stick in his butt......well she didn't, but his story never wavered. He wasn't lying, he really thought that is how he got the bruise. We still don't know how he got it...but it's an example of how such a young child can say things that can be taken seriously if you don't know the details....FWIW

 

[USARDOG]

I think as long as Casey had control of Caylee, her days were numbered.

Cindy had to have known that Casey was an unfit mother. Very early in the case it was reported that she did consult with a therapist and was told to kick Casey out of the house and get custody of Caylee. Certainly, for a therapist to advise her to do that, there had to have been some evidence of Casey being an unfit mother.

Sadly, Cindy handled all this the wrong way. Had she refrained from getting into any confrontations with Casey, didn't let on to Casey what she knew, and quietly went about putting all the pieces in place legally for getting custody, and had involved child protective services, Caylee might have survived.

If Cindy had planned on confronting Casey the night of June 15th, she could have left Caylee at her mother's for the night on June 15th, or with a trusted babysitter, Caylee wouldn't have been in the battle zone and within Casey's easy reach.

Yes all this I believe, however, that would still have left Caylee to grow up with CA, who raised and molded KC into the woman she is today. This is not a pretty picture for me, and leaves me wondering if CA might not have turned Caylee into KC#2 at some point.

 

[Snaz]

Yes all this I believe, however, that would still have left Caylee to grow up with CA, who raised and molded KC into the woman she is today. This is not a pretty picture for me, and leaves me wondering if CA might not have turned Caylee into KC#2 at some point.

My thought exactly.....

 

[TorisMom003]

Many years ago when I was still married to my ex his two kids came home after spending the weekend with their mother. My stepdaughter was around 2 1/2 and my stepson was around 1 1/2. I was in the bathroom helping my stepdaughter take a bath. When she turned around for me to wash her back I saw this bruise that went from her rear end down her leg. At first I thought it was a shadow caused by the light not being very bright. I called my ex into the room and showed him. We didn't say anything in front of her about it, finished her bath, dried her off and sent her to play in her room. After we (ex and I) talked about it we then asked my stepdaughter what had happened. She told us the best that she could that her mother's boyfriend had gotten mad at her when the toilet over flowed and beat her with the plunger. Now at that age she had no clue what the name for plunger was but she was able to describe to us what it was and we figured it out.

My point in this is that at that age Caylee may not have been able to go into specifics but she could tell Cindy and/or George enough for them to figure out what was going on. I also don't think that Caylee would have just offered up any information on her own. I think that Cindy asked Caylee questions and Caylee answered. A child that age does not understand the concept of "telling" on someone to get them in trouble. Unfortunately Casey probably didn't care about that. Casey may have seen Caylee as "telling" on her and that was a no-no in Casey's eyes. I feel that Cindy had to have known long before that something was not right, otherwise why question Caylee that day?!

MOO

 

[Oakley]

Cindy and Caylee were alone in the car for that drive. If Cindy had spent time that day discussing KC's theft with her mother and begging her mother to let it slide, she was probably unhappy with KC. Cindy would feel fully justified in asking Caylee probing questions about Caylee's time with KC away from the Anthony home. Knowing how children babble about anything and everything, I am sure that Cindy got an earful.

I will never believe that there was no fight that night. As we have seen since Caylee went missing, neither Cindy nor KC is noted for self restraint. Cindy probably told KC at the top of her lungs every little piece of damaging information she had up till then. If Cindy threatened to use this info to get custody of Caylee, KC probably countered that threat with her own threat of taking Caylee away so Cindy would never see her again. Then KC stormed off with a frightened, screaming Caylee.

I believe that Caylee, through no fault of her own, contributed some information to Cindy or, at least, said enough to let Cindy get the picture of Caylee's time with KC.

BBM Yes - This quote of Casey's (from AZLawyer's siggie on here) fits right in with that scenario:


"I don`t want to be one of those thousands of parents that has to deal with the possibility ... of knowing that their child`s alive and that they`re with someone else. The thought of that every day makes me sick." ~ Casey Anthony

Casey was damned if she'd allow her archrival to have HER daughter (even though she herself didn't want her) IMO.

 

[countzero]

When your adult child hold your grandchild hostage against you, one tends to ignore lots of little stuff, but still knows all those things that go on.

The queen of control knew exactly what was going on. The queen of manipulation knew she was slowly relinquishing her crown, yet still managed to put off and pull off the enviable for as long as she could in order to retain what powers she could. The queen of deception and deceit put up a front and fight knowing she was losing the battle, but convinced herself she would win the war.

The prize would be Caylee, whos only fault in her short lived life was to talk about anything and everything she felt, good or bad.

Neither the queen of control nor her adversary would let the other have her. No coexistence would be considered. It was all or nothing to have the prize.

ICA chose nothing ... thus sending a message to the queen in the shape of a heart, placed over four pieces of crisscrossed duct tape, on top of Caylee's mouth ... neither would have the prize.

Caylee was never considered a gift from God. She was a pawn used between each of the A clan for different purposes. Caylee was the cute baby, but needed attention. Caylee was the cute adorable year old who learned to walk and swim. Caylee was the "chatty cathy" two year old that responded with lots of talk when asked questions with whatever came into her mind at the time. Caylee was the repeater of words she heard from both CA and ICA. I am pretty sure both CA and ICA grilled Caylee on a daily basis about the others.

We had a thread long ago where we discussed the facts that Caylee had no other children her age to play with on a regular basis. She played with Christina's child, but it seemed to be ad hoc when ICA needed something from her. No pre-school, no church groups, no play groups on a structured basis. Caylees physical contacts were either adults or cartoons characters. She was overindulged with material goods - clothes and toys but no children her age to interact with appropriately.

So yes, Caylee chattered about adult stuff, repeated what she heard in and from her surroundings. She no doubt played with her dolls the way ICA interacted with her. CA knew this, yet kept quiet because CA wanted a do-over. ICA knew this and hated her for it.

I believe many here can relate to what I am attempting to describe. It only brings sadness knowing that Caylee's life wasn't and isn't unique. Only difference is Caylee's story can be told the way she needs it to be told. To bring awareness to the surroundings and conditions of her murder and to possibly save another child from the same fate.

 

[Cayleefan]

I'm thinking Caylee might have told Cindy about being put in the trunk, when it was dark outside. And maybe how it frightened her?

 

[USARDOG]

As usual, well put CZ.

I would differ on one point. I don't believe anything but the second coming can change the fate of small ones in circumstances like these.