8 Die in Crash on Taconic State Parkway #2

[southcitymom]

Since we do not know when she started drinking we have to back into the .19 BAC. So, from that we can extrapolate that if she is approx 150 lbs and the reports about 10oz of alcohol are correct, then she had to have those drinks over about 3 hours.
But I still don't understand how they can know how much alcohol she had if they don't know when she started drinking. There is way more science than the BAC because that doesn't tell us anything! We know she had alcohol in her eye fluids so maybe that is a critical factor? 6 grams is not much in the belly I mean there are 28 grams in an ounce right?

So now my question is how do they know she had 10 ounces of alcohol
I am going to do some googling.

Tell me what you find! It is Greek to me, but I very much appreciate your not taking all those numbers at face value without some further inspection. You are a true Sleuth....me, a social gadfly, I'm afraid! :crazy:

 

[Steve2010]

Ok...I'll ask again...'cause the other thread's now closed...does anyone know why DS was in this part of Westchester? It's not the way home to LI. TIA

It's possible but pure speculation that she may have just simply missed the exit to head south and was trying to find her way back, or (as another poster mentioned) that she may have realized that she didn't have her cell phone and was trying to find a way back to the toll plaza.

In her reported state - it's pretty easy to see her getting totally lost, afterall - she said that she couldn't see clearly.

This is one question that will most likely never be answered.

 

[drip~drop]

I've been following this fairly close, but have not posted anything about it until today. I keep going back and forth with theories, thoughts and questions.

If the timeline quoted is correct - and I assume it is, since it has been reported this way in numerous places - am I correct to believe that DS consumed the equivalent of 10 shots of alcohol over the course of about 48 minutes? (12:08 "normal conversation" to 12:56 "there's something wrong with Diane")

Is that even physically possible? And if so, how long does it take the liquor to enter your bloodstream and spike your BAC?

When is it theorized that she smoked the pot? When stopped for one of those phone calls?

I still don't know what I think happened. It doesn't really make sense to me. I sometimes wonder if she was possessed by the Devil himself.........

I for one have no clue how she managed.
I sit here with a can of ginger ale. The can is 12oz. After 45 minutes, i am almost through with it.
I can not imagine drinking a soda can full of vodka like that. in that amount of time.
I would be totally sick and disabled.
I can't possibly believe this was her first tango.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

Ok...I'll ask again...'cause the other thread's now closed...does anyone know why DS was in this part of Westchester? It's not the way home to LI. TIA

No one knows for sure. However, it is fairly easy to wind up heading north on the Saw Mill if one is not paying very close attention. The exit for the Saw Mill South is the same exit as well as another road (Rte 119? I forget) and if you hug the right lane through that exit, you wind up north instead of south. I've almost done it myself once or twice. Once you are on the Saw Mill going north, you need to get off and go south and she probably got off and wound up on Pleasantville Rd.

 

[JBean]

Tell me what you find! It is Greek to me, but I very much appreciate your not taking all those numbers at face value without some further inspection. You are a true Sleuth....me, a social gadfly, I'm afraid! :crazy:

Well I have learned some very interesting things. Post mortem BAC can be higher than the true levels prior to death. Especially when there is major traumatic bodily injury. After death, we produce high levels of alcohol and so this can contaminate the BAC levels.I think this became an issue with Henri Paul the driver for Princess diana.So, they take liquids from other places to help estimate actual BAC before death.In this case they said they tested her eye fluids and so I assume they did that to get a more accurate BAC.


Some info:

>> is another confounding factor. Individuals dying soon after drinking may have significant amounts of unabsorbed alcohol in the stomach at the moment of death. Passive diffusion of alcohol from the stomach and small bowel, which is the mechanism of absorption in life, continues after death, artefactually raising blood ethanol concentrations in the heart and great vessel<<

<<Given the seriousness of the problem and the potential legal importance of the analytical result, it is important that ethanol measurements in postmortem blood are corroborated by analyses of other body fluids. Vitreous humour from the eye(7) and bladder urine(8) are helpful here. Vitreous, which is easily obtained, is valuable because it is well protected from bacterial infiltration after death.(9) <<

http://www.bmj.com/archive/7125/7125e3.htm

and this was a very interesting article:

POST-MORTEM ALCOHOL RESULTS CAN BE MISLEADING


OCTOBER 03 -- ROSEBURG, OR: A number of news reports (and subsequent discussion on message boards) have been posted in the last couple days regarding the blood-alcohol results of toxicology reports following the fatal crash on Highway 20 in eastern Oregon that killed eight contract firefighters near Vale, Oregon. Those reports, however, should not be considered "evidence" that the driver or passengers were drinking prior to the crash. A convenience store video does show crewmembers purchasing beer

http://www.ridl.us/articles/misleadingDD.htm


This is also kind of interesting, but it is only referring to one method of obtaining a sample:
In postmortem cases, a blood sample is frequently obtained by transthoracic (TT) puncture. The purpose of this study was to determine if, in traumatic death, blood samples collected by TT provided a valid sample for blood alcohol analysis.
snip
>>The results showed that when GI traumatic injury occurs and unabsorbed ethanol is present in the stomach, contamination of TT blood samples occurs and artificially elevated BACs are obtained. It is recommended that, in cases of traumatic injury, heart blood samples from the intact heart chamber, as well as samples of additional biological fluids, be collected to rule out the possibility of contamination and to ensure that the BAC used for forensic interpretation is accurate.<<
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/037907389401569Q

 

[Wonder]

Since we do not know when she started drinking we have to back into the .19 BAC. So, from that we can extrapolate that if she is approx 150 lbs and the reports about 10oz of alcohol are correct, then she had to have those drinks over about 3 hours.
But I still don't understand how they can know how much alcohol she had if they don't know when she started drinking. There is way more science than the BAC because that doesn't tell us anything! We know she had alcohol in her eye fluids so maybe that is a critical factor? 6 grams is not much in the belly I mean there are 28 grams in an ounce right?

So now my question is how do they know she had 10 ounces of alcohol
I am going to do some googling.

According to what I have read, the eye fluid test tells what the person's level was 1-2 hours before death. I can't quote where I read it, but maybe someone can expand on it. It is suppose to be the most accurate reading you can get on a person.

 

[JBean]

According to what I have read, the eye fluid test tells what the person's level was 1-2 hours before death. I can't quote where I read it, but maybe someone can expand on it. It is suppose to be the most accurate reading you can get on a person.

well now that is interesting, but why would we want to know what their BAC was 1-2 hours before death?
ETA: actually after thinking about it, that would be extremely useful information.

 

[Salem]

1. I personally have driven drunk with my kids in the car innumerable times. Definitely I can't enumerate them because half of them I don't even remember: I was blacked out. Some on here have explained that one can do this because one's thinking is so incredibly distorted that one thinks that one can do anything drunk. People even say, "I drive better when I'm drunk." Good god.

2. Your friends who haven't ever put their kids in the car when drunk driving might have it pointed out to them that there are very definitely kids in other cars. If diane schuler had been driving alone and hit a van with 5 kids in it and killed them, would you consider her a more responsible person than she seems to you now?

First, hugs to you tapu - I hope those horrible drinking days are over for you and that they never come back. I do have a friend that says he can drive better drunk, and what's even worse is that I have another friend that agrees with him. Sad. My friend has the biggest heart ever and I do remind him every chance I get that he could very well cause an accident that could seriously hurt someone. I also let him know that I will call the law on him if I find him driving drunk. Consequently, he only comes by early in the day - before the alcohol shows up in his behavior.

I should have clarified - my friend does not have children. His girlfriends are smart enough not to let their children ride with him. My family members no longer have small children. I really think my comment was more wishful thinking. After I thought about it, I realized that children don't ride with them, not because they won't allow it, but because OTHERS won't allow it.

And no, I would not have considered her more responsible if she had driven solo but killed persons in another car. I think this woman is completely and totally responsible for what happened. I cut her no slack. I am horrified by this. My problem is that I can not wrap my mind around what happened. I can not understand how she took the first drink. I can not understand how she could put those kids in the car and then proceed to get drunk. Why didn't she say - I don't feel good - you take the kids. I'm gonna stop for some medicine? Would that have made her more responsible if she hit the other car - no! But, I understand how people don't think about the innocents in the other car. I understand how someone might say "its only me" without giving a thought to who is coming down the road. I don't understand how you load the car up with kids and continue to think "its only me."

I make no excuses for this woman. She did what she did and others are suffering greatly for it. Very sad.

Salem

 

[Salem]

Welcome, ShyGal. I think she started drinking at McDonald's too - shortly after leaving the campground and probably ordering at OJ.

Is there any information on where the booze came from? A credit or debit receipt showing the purchase? Did she pack it in the van at the campground - was it left over from the camping activities? She could have started drinking before McDonalds and was just not showing it yet.

Salem

 

[RR0004]

I think that is part of the puzzle. Why was she drunk and why was she there.

All she had to do was continue straight...no turns...when she got over the bridge. She may have been looking for 87 south...which she would have come up to shorlty after she made the stop to make the call. She just wasn't a little bit off track...she was way off track.
Thanks, JB.

 

[RR0004]

No one knows for sure. However, it is fairly easy to wind up heading north on the Saw Mill if one is not paying very close attention. The exit for the Saw Mill South is the same exit as well as another road (Rte 119? I forget) and if you hug the right lane through that exit, you wind up north instead of south. I've almost done it myself once or twice. Once you are on the Saw Mill going north, you need to get off and go south and she probably got off and wound up on Pleasantville Rd.

Wouldn't she have wanted to take 87 south? The new "redirection" of highways after you pass through the tolls is VERY confusing.

 

[CatMama3]

I should have clarified - my friend does not have children. His girlfriends are smart enough not to let their children ride with him. My family members no longer have small children. I really think my comment was more wishful thinking. After I thought about it, I realized that children don't ride with them, not because they won't allow it, but because OTHERS won't allow it.

And no, I would not have considered her more responsible if she had driven solo but killed persons in another car. I think this woman is completely and totally responsible for what happened. I cut her no slack. I am horrified by this. My problem is that I can not wrap my mind around what happened. I can not understand how she took the first drink. I can not understand how she could put those kids in the car and then proceed to get drunk. Why didn't she say - I don't feel good - you take the kids. I'm gonna stop for some medicine? Would that have made her more responsible if she hit the other car - no! But, I understand how people don't think about the innocents in the other car. I understand how someone might say "its only me" without giving a thought to who is coming down the road. I don't understand how you load the car up with kids and continue to think "its only me."

I make no excuses for this woman. She did what she did and others are suffering greatly for it. Very sad.

Salem

respectfully snipped by me

Your friend can't see his addiction and the havoc it could wreak, but thankfully others around him can. They see that he is truly an accident waiting to happen, and they don't want their children anywhere near him when it does happen. This is what makes me think that neither Daniel Shuler nor Warren Hance had ANY idea that Diane was an addict. They trusted her with their children. I cannot imagine a greater betrayal.

That being said, Diane would have likely been drinking on the drive home whether she felt great or she felt awful. Because the truth is, the disease of addiction tells the addict that they don't have a problem. The only thing that matters is getting a fix, whether it's vodka in a McD's large OJ or a bump of cocaine. Her purported abcessed tooth is irrelevant. She may have been looking to buy a pain reliever to help with her tooth, but she would have probably been drinking anyway. She needed a fix. And in her addict's mind, she could knock back some vodka to ease her mouth pain, take the edge off, tune out the five kids in the car, whatever, and still be fine to drive.

I have a dear friend who has been in recovery nearly twenty years, and I've picked his brain over all those years to get a better understanding of addiction. And sometimes, when my mind is blown about why an addict would do something so stupid, or dangerous, or possibly fatal, he can only tell me to be glad I don't understand.

I'm certainly not making excuses for her behavior, or giving her a pass because she had a "disease". She destroyed countless lives. I'm just trying to provide some insight about how she act in such a monstrous way but not be a monster.

 

[RR0004]

I don't know this area at all.

I know she was headed to her brother's house and I think she left the TappanZee and meandered to the Taconic to take a route home that her brother (who was coming to find her) wouldn't take to get to her. She was, as we know, quite drunk by this time, so her thinking may not have been the clearest.

She wasn't anywhere close to "heading" home, though.

 

[JBean]

She just wasn't a little bit off track...she was way off track.
Thanks, JB.

zackly.In more ways than one.

 

[Melanie]

I've been following this fairly close, but have not posted anything about it until today. I keep going back and forth with theories, thoughts and questions.

If the timeline quoted is correct - and I assume it is, since it has been reported this way in numerous places - am I correct to believe that DS consumed the equivalent of 10 shots of alcohol over the course of about 48 minutes? (12:08 "normal conversation" to 12:56 "there's something wrong with Diane")

Is that even physically possible? And if so, how long does it take the liquor to enter your bloodstream and spike your BAC?

When is it theorized that she smoked the pot? When stopped for one of those phone calls?

I still don't know what I think happened. It doesn't really make sense to me. I sometimes wonder if she was possessed by the Devil himself.........

Thank you - I don't get the timeline either. How do you drink 10 shots while driving (or the equivalent to). A part of me still wants to think there was something else going on with her -- I just can't make any sense out of it.

Mel

 

[Lexington]

Thank you - I don't get the timeline either. How do you drink 10 shots while driving (or the equivalent to). A part of me still wants to think there was something else going on with her -- I just can't make any sense out of it.

Mel

I can't even imagine a raging alcoholic sitting alone in the house swilling down 10 shots of vodka in under an hour, much less a woman driving a car with 5 children in tow, stopping for breakfast, shopping for pain meds, filling up the car, making and taking cell phone calls and smoking a joint. It simply does not make any sense that she inadvertently drank too much, that the alcohol hit her differently that day, etc. I agree with you that something else was going on with her.

 

[annmarie62]

Well, this alcoholic says: nobody starts drinking by downing 10 shots while on the road with kids on a Sunday morning.

Hardcore drinking behavior. Classic.

ita!!

 

[Wonder]

Is there any information on where the booze came from? A credit or debit receipt showing the purchase? Did she pack it in the van at the campground - was it left over from the camping activities? She could have started drinking before McDonalds and was just not showing it yet.

Salem

If there was a credit card charge for the liquor, you can be sure that Schuler's personal investigator was not going to make that public. So the only other investigator would be the LE and I have not heard of any kind of receipts of that type (but they may not be publicizing it at this time). I guess it would come out at the civil trail, but there will be no criminal trail (based on recent news). Comments?

I agree, she was drinking early in the trip.

 

[southcitymom]

Is there any information on where the booze came from? A credit or debit receipt showing the purchase? Did she pack it in the van at the campground - was it left over from the camping activities? She could have started drinking before McDonalds and was just not showing it yet.

Salem

I don't think I have read anything stating that we KNOW where the booze came from. I believe she had it with her - bought it with her to the weekend - because she had planned to do some drinking on the ride back.

I do believe the hubby said the bottle of Absolut found at the collision site was their bottle that they carried back and forth on weekend camping trips, so it could have been from that bottle or she could have had an additional stash.

 

[southcitymom]

She wasn't anywhere close to "heading" home, though.

But she was certainly heading AWAY from the direction her brother was coming!

And obviously, she was confused and lost - Emma had reported that in an earlier phone call to her Dad.