Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #177

[somequestions]

That's not what happened.
This is what actually occurred:

A judge approved two additional murder counts Monday against an Indiana man charged in the killings of two teenage girls but rejected a prosecutor’s bid to add kidnapping charges.
The new charges approved against Richard Allen of Delphi are murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping.https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...c195d8-e583-11ee-9eba-1558f848ec25_story.html

In my opinion, it does not matter how the prosecution phrases it, I think it is going to be difficult to get a conviction for kidnapping or for murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping. Juries, however, get together and come to the decisions they do even if I do not agree with it.

The only thing that can actually be considered here is if Richard Allen, either by himself or by helping someone else, murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German. I think the only thing a reasonable jury could do is convict him of murder by itself based on the evidence. If the jury thinks the confessions are true, they might convict him. Maybe the confessions contain admissions of guilt about kidnapping?

I do not think the jury is going to be able to agree that the person in Liberty German's phone video is Richard Allen. But I understand that it does not make a lot of sense to come to the conclusion that Richard Allen is the murderer, but not the person who kidnapped Abigail Williams and Liberty German from the Monon High Bridge(the bridge guy person from Liberty German's phone video). This is very true if you think the crime was only committed by one person. It seems like it would have to be the same person.

 

[snooptroop88]

MOO: No good attorney allows two dead children-- and either same or other attorney's client's guilt or innocence-- to become completely occluded by peripheral issues. That is what we're in the midst of. Niner earlier posted what may or may not be a complete list of motions in this case. There's no way I'm quoting that post because it's massive. I tried to find the "average" number of motions to expect in a criminal case on sources. The closest source I could find tops it out at 50 being the ceiling. From what I can see, we are at that now in this case, "give or take." I can truthfully tell you, I came into this completely neutral towards RA, and for the most part, still am. I don't want a potentially innocent person rotting in prison while a horror of a human being walks free. But I don't want what I'm watching now, either. There should not be a courtroom packed full of YouTubers today. In my opinion, whoever created that spectacle is probably to blame for the overall pattern with this case, but it's MOO. I know the people posting on here care deeply about the victims, and I do care deeply. They endured a ghastly nightmare and there are no words to capture it, and there's no way to correct it. RA, too, is sympathetic-- if he's innocent. If he's guilty, there really are no words for what's been going on for that, either. It's high stakes for both sides, and I don't want to offend anyone, and I mean that. But the case itself is becoming a horror in terms of the way it's unfolding, it has taken on a life of its own. The trial is 56 days away. The idea that this heaping helping of sideshow acts is still injecting itself at this point-- wow. It's a travesty no matter what the outcome is at this point, JMO.

Those two sweet little creatures will never be forgotten.

 

[Gardenista]

I don't feel DH has lived up to his reputation on this case.

His motions are full of typos and errors - and then we read this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1769873663174533598

Never heard of this guy before. From what we've seen to date, and compared to the hundreds of cases I've seen go to trial, they are the worst. A complete clown show. It's embarrassing and horrifying.

 

[Gardenista]

Wonder if Abby and Libby's family would be able to sue the defense clown show civilly for negligence or something. I love to see an attorney offer to take that case pro bono or on contingency.

 

[Gardenista]

The reason the kidnapping charges were dropped is the prosecution cannot prove Richard Allen kidnapped Abigail Williams and Liberty German. If I were on a jury, I could easily find him not guilty of that charge because no one can be sure who the person on Liberty German's phone video really is. I cannot make out the facial identity with any certainty because the video is too grainy. Can the prosecution prove it is Richard Allen's voice saying, "Down the hill"? The other reason he would have been found not guilty of kidnapping is no one actually saw Richard Allen pull a gun and order the girls down the hill as far as I know.

What the prosecution will try to prove, based on the unspent cartridge, is that Richard Allen was at the crime scene where the murders took place. The toolmark evidence places Richard Allen at the crime scene(if it is good evidence), and even if the girls were not murdered by a gun. His placement within the trail area and the Monon High Bridge is decent circumstantial evidence to suggest he was in the woods with the girls. Also, the confessions only help the prosecution's case.

I do not know if a jury will convict him of murder or felony murder. But no one can prove Richard Allen kidnapped Abigail Williams and Liberty German based on the evidence(or the evidence that we know of to date). No one knows if that person on Liberty German's phone video is Richard Allen. It is too grainy a picture for clear identification.

The media got this wrong. Kidnapping charges were not dropped. They are included in the original felony murder charges that still stand.

The state wanted to keep the 2 felony murder charges and wanted to add 2 more stand alone kidnapping charges and 2 more stand alone murder charges. The state abandoned the request for the 2 kidnapping charges because the statute of limitations had run and judge agreed to the 2 additional murder charges.

So after today he has 4 murder charges which is amazing.

 

[Niner]

Thank you ALL for the posting on the hearings. I took LOTS of notes! Any NEXT hearing date set yet? TIA!

 

[mrjitty]

interesting notes from MS

- police can’t get into MWs phone. surprise surprise. but they do have screenshots of comms with ‘andy’ from his icloud. these are sealed.

- MW positioned as some highly valued sought after consultant???? would love to know if he was paid then.

- Snay. Lol. why was this clown even brought to court? judge also shut down one other you tuber.

- 3 attorneys called by the defence were very good. why didn’t they just go with this. they said the leak was not such a big deal.

- baldwin not called as a witness by the defence. quelle surprise. rozzi was called.

- holder was never a key suspect in 2017. had a good alibi. this is an issue about whether the case could be dismissed due to the accidental erasure.

 

[Andieinsyd]

Thought the MS episode was a very good wrap up of the days events. They had been in court so could talk first hand.

 

[girlhasnoname]

How do you lose 70 days worth of interviews and even more ridiculous when you consider it’s such a high profile case?

They didn't, that's just the Defense alleging and good ole' CW tweeting the narrative out to the public.

EBM: JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Delphi murders suspect faces 2 additional charges

Richard Allen, 51, of Delphi, was arrested on Oct. 28, 2022, for the February 2017 murders of a 13-year-old and a 14-year-old in Delphi.

www.wishtv.com

What a big turn around from them 'fake offering' to represent RA pro bono. I believe nothing that comes from the lips of either one of the D team members.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

What happened to their offer for pro bono? Were they just blowing smoke?

“Rozzi and Baldwin insist they did nothing wrong and have offered to continue representing Allen for free.”

IN Supreme Court to hear arguments about Richard Allen's attorneys, Delphi homicide judge

The Indiana Supreme Court at 11 a.m. Thursday will hear arguments on three issues that could greatly change Richard Allen's upcoming trial.

www.wlfi.com

If the D's lips are moving they are blowing smoke. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder if this is the 2 pounds of information everyone kept referring to from somebody in Texas:

<snipped>

The defense also says it received an anonymous call from a woman in Texas just a few weeks ago, claiming to have about 240 pages of leaked documents and agreed to provide them. But the defense says it has received only a few of those documents so far. So, the defense has asked for an extension of the deadline for discovery until March 14 for the March 18 hearing.

Delphi murders case hearings | Judge approves murder charges, dismisses kidnapping charges

 

[girlhasnoname]

Were the original charges of kidnapping also removed because of the Statute of Limitation?
Or, since they were filed on time, they still stand?

Please help me to understand!

Yes, they removed the charges of kidnapping based on SOL based on what I've read so far. jmo

 

[girlhasnoname]

No. That's not what anybody is saying and that doesn't even make any sense.

I'm more concerned about evidence of OTHER ACTORS being lost.

I haven't seen any evidence produced yet of OTHER ACTORS being involved from the P or the D in an approved MSM source. The P said at the PC upon the arrest of RA that they would continue to keep the tip line open and would investigate and charge any other actors involved.

Other than SM speculation, I haven't seen one MSM article showing proof of another actor. Not saying that it couldn't be possible, just saying that we haven't seen reputable proof of that yet.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Read #12 of their compel motion...(paraphrasing) they said they might have it but they don't know for sure so they want it. hummm

I believe I've stated at least 6 times on posts lately that the Defense doesn't have an actual clue as to what they do or don't have. It's embarrassing and not fair to their beloved client RA.

I mean that seriously, they are not competent enough to defend him IMO.

 

[Oculus]

I'm curious on what the standard practice for collecting possible DNA evidence from a scene like Delphi would look like.

Does anyone here have experience of this?

Luminol?
Then collect a specific area's worth of leaves/foliage/branches for further examination in lab?

 

[girlhasnoname]

"The prosecutors" (name of podcast, not the delphi P team) ... doth protest too much, methinks.
But it's cute how they are standing up for McL.
They get it.
McL's been handed a messy mess with having to chase down various discovery from various LE investigation lines, multiple LE organizations ... only to learn that not-a-small amount of discovery has been ... lost.

Anyone know what youtubers/podcasts snarky comments are we permitted to post on the Delphi threads?

jmho

I don't think it's 'cute', I think it's honorable that they are speaking the truth addressing all the false accusations against NMcL.

What we've seen here is a definite blow to the sacred Justice System. A mockery and a stooping to a level never before seen by myself in any case before. I ask myself why? Why would this be?

I can only come up with one answer: The completely unprofessional actions and misconduct of this Defense.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Hennessy is the one who put Snay on their witness list lol.

And that is one of the most telling things of all. Even the D's own witnesses have turned against them. IMO

 

[Megnut]

I'm curious on what the standard practice for collecting possible DNA evidence from a scene like Delphi would look like.

Does anyone here have experience of this?

Luminol?
Then collect a specific area's worth of leaves/foliage/branches for further examination in lab?

Having just followed a case through to trial and conviction. I was reminded how limited LE can be. They can't search, seize, spray luminol, arrest without probable cause. And even then, they are hampered by restrictions. The law, budgets, etc.

They don't fingerprint every surface, they don't spray luminol on every surface, they don't collect every item.

Plus every investigation takes time. Things that seemed insignificant can later become critical, sadly after cctv videos are overwritten, other evidence concealed or destroyed. Crime scenes don't stay locked down, bodies are returned to families, tips can be missed.

Investigations aren't static. They don't collect or test every leaf. It is imperfect.

We just pray it's enough. Enough to convict the accused.

JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

I'm curious on what the standard practice for collecting possible DNA evidence from a scene like Delphi would look like.

Does anyone here have experience of this?

Luminol?
Then collect a specific area's worth of leaves/foliage/branches for further examination in lab?

Luminol is used to detect the presence of blood, it doesn't find all sources of DNA.

Normally the presence of blood is detected at a crime scene by close visual examination and then presumptive testing to make sure it really is blood is done before samples/swabs are collected for lab analysis. The scene is photographed extensively with evidence markers in situ so that there is documentation of exactly where samples came from.

Typically Luminol would be used to find blood that was not visible due to being in such small amounts that it can't be seen by the naked eye, or having already been subjected to cleanup attempts. I don't think that the crime scene in Delphi would likely have a miniscule amount of blood based on court documents that we know about so far; nor do I think it's really possible for clean up to have occurred based on the outdoor nature of the crime scene. I do think luminol could possibly have been used to detect/map a route of exit from the crime scene, document drag marks, something along those lines.

For example, the markings on the tree that appear to have been made in blood. You don't need to luminol those because visually, you see that blood is there. Swabs can be taken from the markings that are visible.

@Megnut is absolutely correct that not every swab or sample is tested. Some end up being unsuitable and others are redundant. The detectives and the lab make these decisions in concert with each other based on known information at the time. It's an imperfect process.

All of this is IMO.