All About Chloroform#2

[Busylady]

The computers were seized a couple days after Casey was arrested, before anyone knew there was decomp in the trunk. Why would anyone in the Anthony home be searching for chloroform in regards to DNA and decomp when they didnt know decomp was in the trunk?

I guess what I am trying to say is that it is a result of using different cleaning products that combined produced chloroform. I don't really think that pure cloroform was used. Just a by-product of different solvents. The chloroform search on the computer is really dependent on when the search was done. Maybe they were looking up how the dna testing on the trunk was going to be done. I am really not sure yet. I don't think we have enough info yet to fit the search in at this time. I hope I am not copping out. I just think the date of that search is a huge factor. As always JMO.

 

[DADSGIRL4EVER]

Thank you. That clears it up for me.

 

[DADSGIRL4EVER]

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Sources close to the investigation confirmed late Wednesday for FOX 35 in Orlando that "significant levels" of chloroform were found in the car used by Casey Anthony.
http://www.myfoxnepa.com/myfox/page...n=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.3.1

Two sources close to the Casey Anthony investigation said a chemical possibly found in her car tested positive for an airborne, vaporized form of chloroform.

Chemist Jeff Flowers, who has testified in state and federal court as an expert, said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from anything else -- not cleaning products, not human body fluids or a mixture of anything else.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," Flowers said.

Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform, WESH 2's Bob Kealing reported

http://www.wesh.com/news/17397494/detail.html

This is where the information is coming from that it had to be pure chloroform. Also the computer shows someone searched chloroform on the Anthony computer that was seized a few days after Caseys arrest. If the chloroform came from a combination of pool water, body fluids, and chemicals etc no reason for anyone to be searching chloroform on the computer.

I am not sure I understand your post.
Respectfully
dadsgirl4ever.

 

[Busylady]

People are questioning where the info on pure cholorform came from and suggesting it was pool water and body fluids. I just posted links to two articles that explains why people are saying its pure chloroform and not body fluids and pool water.

I am not sure I understand your post.
Respectfully
dadsgirl4ever.

 

[DADSGIRL4EVER]

I am sorry. My postings are all messed up. What I was trying to say is that I didn't understand okiedokietoo's post. And I am thanking Busylady's for her post. Needless to say, I will have to rethink this. I always thought that NG was the one who said that significant levels of chloroform were found and that they couldn't have been from the mixture of cleaning products. I, personally, do not put much into her opinion. Sorry for any confusion and for the info.

Dadsgirl

 

[ArtichokeHeart]

I think it depends on the person but I do agree that people DO have intuition when it comes to death....Fot example....I was on my way to FL the end of July. I hate flying BUT I was doing ok....It was raining, so we had to circle for about a half an hour before we could land....As we circled the ocean, I was thinking of my grandfather and how I couldn't wait to call him and tell him that I had "made it" and I was just looking down at the ocean crying....I couldn't figure out why until I got the call about 3 hours after we landed that he has passed. I knew. I just knew. Same thing when my step father passed. I just knew.

I'm an only child. My mother divorced when I was born and raised me herself. She also worked and money was very important to her as she came from a poor family. But she also used money to hold on to me. So she would always keep sending me money and claiming me on her income tax. My father told me that the way to hurt my mother was to refuse her money. Well, as I was getting on up there in my twenties I wanted to put a stop to this. I tld her it was illegal. She had a stroke the next day. No one told me but I knew. And I eventually found out which hospital she was in. This was NYC.

I think this is somewhat similiar to Casey's plight with her mother. Cindy told her on the phone (jail tape) that she would just die if anything happened to Caylee. Knowing that Caylee has passed Casey cannot allow herself to be responsible for her mother's demise.

Maybe Casey is a murderer (I doubt it) and maybe she isn't but right now and probobly for the rest of her life (in jail) she needs her mother.

That's why I say what is nede to solve this case is not pressuring Casey to tell but getting Cindy in therapy asap and help her fill up that vacant hole inside that has been there for years. Once Cindy can fill up and let go. Casey will feel freer to talk.

 

[maconrich]

Of course the DSM IV contains accurate information. The post I was refering to referenced the page number and section under which Anti-social personality disorder can be found. However the poster did not include diagnostic critera or information from the DSM. Rather, quoted an online review of a book called "The sociopath next door" written by Dr. Martha Stout.

ok got it, TY! -- I was having a very, very blonde night and was even more lost than normal. :blowkiss:

 

[ShadowGal]

<<<I think this is somewhat similiar to Casey's plight with her mother. Cindy told her on the phone (jail tape) that she would just die if anything happened to Caylee. Knowing that Caylee has passed Casey cannot allow herself to be responsible for her mother's demise. >>> snipped, Artichoke Heart


IIRC, the call you are referring to was friend CC who told KC that she thought she would die if anything happened to Caylee. Perhaps Cindy stated that as well on one of her calls, but I don't believe so.

 

[Bev]

No, you misunderstood my post. I didn't suggest that "pure choloroform" came from body fluids and pool water. I suggested that there is no such thing as "pure choloroform". Chloroform is a combination of two gases which are combined and when heated produce chloroform. A gas spectrometer measures levels of vapourised gases in an air sample - if you have high levels of gases such as methane and chlorine which are heated, and they would be in a car trunk in Florida in July, then yes, they can produce chloroform gas. Now was chloroform gas measured by the gas spectrometer? I'm sure it was, but how did it get there? She might have had chloroform and used it (despite breathless press accounts which cite a "source close to the investigation who could be a mailclerk or just about anyone working for the dept.) it just seems unlikely. It seems more likely that there were very high amounts of chlorine and methane gases in the trunk which spiked at the same levels that chloroform does.

 

[TxLady2]

I am jumping in here without reading all of the posts so forgive me if this has already been said.

Chloroform fumes can be created by mixing bleach with an antibacterial soap/detergent. Back when this was first being discussed I did a search on harmful reactions of cleaning agents to see if it could possibly be an answer to the cholorform presense.

To me, it is a strong possibility that CA could have been trying to clean the trunk to get rid of the smell/stain. It also would be the answer to why the maggots/flies were not affected since it happened afterwards. It may also be an answer to the search that was done on the computer. If the reaction was noticable to whoever tried to clean the trunk they may have looked up the reaction of mixing the cleaning agents and chloroform showed up in the ANSWER to this research.

I once mixed bleach and ammonia together and it like to have knocked me out. I looked up what the reaction was and found out it was harmful and to never, ever do it again.

Just throwing out a possibility.

I can relate!! I moved into a house years ago that had terrible stains in the bathtub and toilet. I mixed bleach and several other cleaners together, and nearly passed out from it. Never did get all those stains out... but never did try that again, either.

 

[TxLady2]

It has been said there was a massive amount of chloroform found in the trunk. (sorry, I don't have a link.) I just can't see this being a case of cross-contamination.
Lanie

And it is NG that says a "massive amount." All other news sources say it is a significant amount.. which could mean anything above a miniscule amount. NG does love to exaggerate things.

 

[Busylady]

The sticking point for me is, and the reason I think it was actual chloroform someone in the Anthony family used, is that there was a search on the computer regarding chloroform. It just seems like too much of a coincidence that someone would be searching for information regarding chloroform before it was released that there was evidence of it in the trunk.

No, you misunderstood my post. I didn't suggest that "pure choloroform" came from body fluids and pool water. I suggested that there is no such thing as "pure choloroform". Chloroform is a combination of two gases which are combined and when heated produce chloroform. A gas spectrometer measures levels of vapourised gases in an air sample - if you have high levels of gases such as methane and chlorine which are heated, and they would be in a car trunk in Florida in July, then yes, they can produce chloroform gas. Now was chloroform gas measured by the gas spectrometer? I'm sure it was, but how did it get there? She might have had chloroform and used it (despite breathless press accounts which cite a "source close to the investigation who could be a mailclerk or just about anyone working for the dept.) it just seems unlikely. It seems more likely that there were very high amounts of chlorine and methane gases in the trunk which spiked at the same levels that chloroform does.

 

[ArtichokeHeart]

Here's the pic someone had posted a while back. This pic was on one of KC's friends myspace page.

Just google/image 'chloroform' - it's the 3rd pic - top row.

Here is the pic...It is titled "Win Her Over With Chloroform"

This is what Casey found on either Tony's or Ric (the fired police offficer's computer)

http://www.imagepoop.com/image/1304/Win-Her-Over-With-Chloroform.html

 

[ArtichokeHeart]

Didn't Lee say that KCs computer was crashed when he picked it up and all data prior to ?7/15? lost? Would that mean the chloroform searches were AFTER the car came home?? And if so...who searched, since KC was in and out of jail?? Or did they recover pre-crash searches??

The bit about Amy is peculiar--especially since a lot of KCs texts to her were about trying to get Amy hooked-up....

She is some b----ch.of an operator....ya mean to say she chloroformed her roommate and changed her pants to make it seem real that she had sleepwalked? And she does this right before Amy goes to PR with a ticket Casey had bought for her.

When was she seducing Amy about living together in her parents house that they were leaving her...before PR or after? Cause I am not sure Amy would have confronted Casey unless she was arrested. and this is just part of Casey's pattern...she stole from jesse and moved on....

And while I know this thread ois about chloroform it just doesn't make sense to me how she could go through thousands of dollars so fast...$45,00 from her mother....must be even more from her grandparents retirement fund, ...she probobly could have bought a house if she wanted to. Maybe not no license or job history or dredit history. But geez all that for a little pasta, a bag of chloroform and two tickets to PR? And then she steals from her best friend. i think she just steals because she can...not because she needs it. just to play with peoples minds and make fools of them.

 

[ArtichokeHeart]

Unless they have a respirator they keep handy you can't just pour chloroform into the trunk and scrub it down, you would pass out.

How would one use it?

 

[ArtichokeHeart]

If someone just deleted messages or dumped certain files, they could still retreive the info from the hard drive. It didnt sound like the hard drive crashed, because ALL of the files would have been lost, and they would have to reinstall the operating program before they could use the comp again. We know the video of Caylee was Downloaded to C's laptop on either the 15th or 16th because LE found that pic taken on Fathers Day (laptop) when they searched it. No one but LA has said anything about a "computer crash".

When did LE confiscate that laptop? IIRC, it wasnt taken til AFTER kc was interviewed at Universal. Someone would have had time to hurry and delete files while LE was driving miss kc around Orlando. It was during that interview that she agreed to let them take it and copy the files on it.

This ties in with the possibility Lee Anthony 'crashed' Casey's laptop when he went to pick it up at Tony's.
There is I believe a thread on this.

 

[ArtichokeHeart]

The only thing I want to learn about this case is the Chloroform searches.

(Last seen 7/15. 7/24 was the gas can recovery & bad smell reports. So from 7/15-7/24 is when she died IMO).

You mean 6/15 Caylee was last seen.

 

[Bev]

Well, not to belabour the point, but we really don't know for a fact that there was a search for chloroform on any computer in the house. "Sources close to the investigation" are invariably gossips and it could well be that he/she heard about the picture that was on one of KC's boyfriends' sites and put one and one together and came up with three. IMO, Nancy Grace is spouting nonsense about the results of the spectrometer readings and I think it's fairly doubtful that any agency would give LE a written report on this until much closer to the trial - they would want to stall the defense as long as possible on these findings. LE would only request a preliminary report and it would be oral in form to avoid discovery by the defense - and that's why we have so many rumours reported as fact. Someone overhears a discussion or telephone call and off he/she runs to the media.

This idea that chloroform is used as a cleaning agent is also exaggerated. One or two drops on a folded cloth are enough to put someone out. It is used in very, very small amounts to clean slides, etc. when you don't want to use alcohol/ethanol which does destroy DNA.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I'm an only child. My mother divorced when I was born and raised me herself. She also worked and money was very important to her as she came from a poor family. But she also used money to hold on to me. So she would always keep sending me money and claiming me on her income tax. My father told me that the way to hurt my mother was to refuse her money. Well, as I was getting on up there in my twenties I wanted to put a stop to this. I tld her it was illegal. She had a stroke the next day. No one told me but I knew. And I eventually found out which hospital she was in. This was NYC.

I think this is somewhat similiar to Casey's plight with her mother. Cindy told her on the phone (jail tape) that she would just die if anything happened to Caylee. Knowing that Caylee has passed Casey cannot allow herself to be responsible for her mother's demise.

Maybe Casey is a murderer (I doubt it) and maybe she isn't but right now and probobly for the rest of her life (in jail) she needs her mother.

That's why I say what is nede to solve this case is not pressuring Casey to tell but getting Cindy in therapy asap and help her fill up that vacant hole inside that has been there for years. Once Cindy can fill up and let go. Casey will feel freer to talk.

OMG *hugs* oh gosh! Gosh- you poor thing!
Jesus- I had something like that happen too though with my step father. He'd gone out on yet another drug binge clearing out my mom's bank account and called me afterwords asking to to "fix it" so I told him to go kill himself and he did. *hugs*

It wasn't Cindy though that was crying on the phone that was Casey's friend!

 

[OneLostGrl]

She is some b----ch.of an operator....ya mean to say she chloroformed her roommate and changed her pants to make it seem real that she had sleepwalked? And she does this right before Amy goes to PR with a ticket Casey had bought for her.

When was she seducing Amy about living together in her parents house that they were leaving her...before PR or after? Cause I am not sure Amy would have confronted Casey unless she was arrested. and this is just part of Casey's pattern...she stole from jesse and moved on....

And while I know this thread ois about chloroform it just doesn't make sense to me how she could go through thousands of dollars so fast...$45,00 from her mother....must be even more from her grandparents retirement fund, ...she probobly could have bought a house if she wanted to. Maybe not no license or job history or dredit history. But geez all that for a little pasta, a bag of chloroform and two tickets to PR? And then she steals from her best friend. i think she just steals because she can...not because she needs it. just to play with peoples minds and make fools of them.

Welcome to understanding the personality disordered A's. Keep thinking like this and things will stop surprising you.