Let me clarify.......psychosis does not mean the same as a psychopath. Psychosis means out of touch with reality, could also mean hallucinations, delusions, hearing voices, getting messages from God telling you to harm someone. Usually has to do with Schizophrenia or other mental illness such as mania from bipolar disorder, but still not able to carry out an organized crime such as this. Psychopath is a personality disorder..not a treatable mental illness Ted Bundy was one who is well known. They look and act normal to most people, look how TB was able to fool all those people? Drowning children in a bathtub when you are alone does not require organization, IMO.
Aphrodite Jones, JonBenet, and Lou Smit?
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Let me clarify.......psychosis does not mean the same as a psychopath. Psychosis means out of touch with reality, could also mean hallucinations, delusions, hearing voices, getting messages from God telling you to harm someone. Usually has to do with Schizophrenia or other mental illness such as mania from bipolar disorder, but still not able to carry out an organized crime such as this. Psychopath is a personality disorder..not a treatable mental illness Ted Bundy was one who is well known. They look and act normal to most people, look how TB was able to fool all those people? Drowning children in a bathtub when you are alone does not require organization, IMO.
roseofsharon
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Please (when rebutting a post I have made) do not misquote what I have posted.
For example: I did not say all psychotic people are angry -- I said the person responsible for the murder IMO was not angry, but psychotic, my point being in a maniacal state of mind -- beyond anger (for instance the speculated anger of PR associated with the supposed bedwetting).
IMO only
roseofsharon
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Once again, this is just repeating my statement regarding psychosis does not mean the same as psychopath.
Forensic units of psychiatric hospitals are full with criminally insane people with a multitude of diagnoses. There are no absolutes, which makes mental illnesses so puzzling to the professionals trying to learn all they can about them.
AY was psychotic when she committed her crime. She was very organized, right down to calling 911 herself and reporting the crime. In her psychotic state, she was able to plan and methodically carry out her plan.
IMO
roseofsharon
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Much is written on WS in December 2003 regarding PR and a psychotic episode.
I'm not misquoting you nor do I mean to offend you but psychotic is a very specific term..no you didn't say all psychotic people are angry nor did I mean to imply that you did. I was just trying to clarify what actual psychosis is, it is a mental illness and most psychotic people are not functional people that is all I meant. Sorry if I offended you. Didn't mean to. The kind of anger you describe might be called an explosive anger?
I am entitled to my opinion about AY. I am a psychiatric professional and worked with the criminally insane for more than30 years. According to the DSM-IV there are specific criteria for psychosis as well as other mental illness.
IMO PR was not psychotic. IMO.
Anything I said is not quoting nor misquoting anyone. It is my own opinion as I have stated. I come on here to give and receive information. Just the facts.
No kidding? Just point me to it.
eileenhawkeye
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BTW, what happened to all the JBR posts prior to 2003? Hasn't the JBR forum been around since 1997?
The older threads may take up more room than is financially feasible to maintain. The Webmaster has to pay to maintain the site, and sometimes older content as to be purged. That's why some sites have advertising- it helps defray the cost. I know acandyrose is a huge site. Not just the JB case, but many more. It was necessary to remove some much-used and important (at least I think so) content to lower bandwidth use.
Mariah,
Interesting, I am shortly going to watch a couple of movies made by John Douglas e.g. Serial Killers - Profiling the Criminal Mind , so I wonder what his take will be on this aspect?
.
joeskidbeck
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Hi UKGuy! Mind if I ask where to find this movie? TIA, Becky
joeskidbeck,
You can find it here:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Serial-Killers-2-pack-Charles-Manson/dp/B000050HEP/ref=pd_sbs_v_2"]Amazon.com: Serial Killers 2-pack: Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, A&E Biography: Movies & TV[/ame]
The one I have covers Wayne Williams, Manson, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer.
Also try this search on google - without the quotes - "A&E Serial Killers - Profiling the Criminal Mind download" you should find it at other locations.
A more upto date look at this subject is:
America's Serial Killers: Portraits in Evil (2009)
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Americas-Serial-Killers-Portraits-Evil/dp/B001LN6NRE/ref=pd_sim_v_1"]Amazon.com: America's Serial Killers: Portraits in Evil: Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Various: Movies & TV[/ame]
The first one is good on detail but is old-fashioned by todays standards, its not HD quality. It looks like a repack of some US TV documentary series. The second one might also include visuals from the first? I'm interested to see if John Douglas applies the same profile methodology to all these cases. And if any personality indicators are used, which ones.
.
Let me know what you find out. I'm just going from psychiatric journals and literature.
Pat Brown criminal profiler assists with missing persons cases, murders, and has written books on serial killers, I believe her words were/are "many are psychpaths but not psychotic". Does anyone know what her take on the JBR case might be?
Have a look:
http://womenincrimeink.blogspot.com/2008/07/touch-of-dna.html
Be sure to read the comments below the main post.
Agatha_C
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Cynic,
Wow! Even though I have read many of the blogs at women in crime ink, I had forgotten so much of what I had read there. Thank you for bringing it back to mind. I also need to find an older post of mine as I find that I wrote something that must have stuck in my mind and find that it had been glued there while reading these articles/blogs/posts/ (LOL) I need to find that post so I can give credit and link to the person who really owns those words (Slightly embarrassed about the mistake but it wasnt intentional.
I found this interesting... Pat Brown>>>> One other unknown piece is an email I have from John Ramsey in response to one I sent him. I noted the language and scenario in the ransom note was similar to that of "Choose Your Own Adventure" stories and the lettering of the ransom note was exactly the same font and size (as if one laid the note on top of the words in the book and traced them so as to disguise writing). As the Ramsey's son was just the right age to be a reader of these books, I told John my theory and mentioned the killer might have been in the son's room and borrowed one of these books to fashion his note.
John responded by commenting on the police incompetancy but said nothing about my theory. I found this odd as usually a family will jump on any new possible concept, even if it is absurd, and want more information on it or ask me to talk to the police. He did neither but said he would keep my email.
I also found poster "Brother Moon" Interesting (LOL. WICI, found his Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, theory interesting as do I....
Thanks again Cynic, for you well of information...... :tyou:
Of course, it is unlikely someone was "in his son's room" looking for books to copy a ransom note from. BOY- that was SOME relaxed intruder, wasn't it? NO worries at being found by the sleeping boy or his parents.
Kidnapper 1: "Shouldn't we write a ransom note in advance and bring it with us? "
Kidnapper 2: "Nah- we'll just spend time in the boy's room looking for a book he might have that we can copy the ransom note from. Boy, I hope he doesn't wake up. Then we'll look around to see if there is something handy to write with and write on. SO much easier than writing a note and just sticking it in our pocket. More exciting! The thrill of possibly getting caught!"
Makes sense, right? NOT.
It is much more likely that JR was in his own son's room looking for a template for that RN, isn't it?
Kidnapper 1: "Shouldn't we write a ransom note in advance and bring it with us? "
Kidnapper 2: "Nah- we'll just spend time in the boy's room looking for a book he might have that we can copy the ransom note from. Boy, I hope he doesn't wake up. Then we'll look around to see if there is something handy to write with and write on. SO much easier than writing a note and just sticking it in our pocket. More exciting! The thrill of possibly getting caught!"
Makes sense, right? NOT.
It is much more likely that JR was in his own son's room looking for a template for that RN, isn't it?
joeskidbeck
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So right DeeDee! And let's not forget they also took time to make sure the handwriting was as close to Patsy's as possible. I gotta wonder why they did that since it was a kidnapping, right? Why in the world would anyone try to make it look like the mother kidnapped her daughter? I guess maybe they forgot they had already killed her and didn't need to leave that crazy letter after all.
I am very impressed by this very intellectual, IMO, view of this case! Thanks!