Appeals Court: TX Had No Right to Remove Kids

[Fairy1]

This ruling makes me sick! If the courts do not find a way to enforce US laws in this case, they will set a tragically dangerous precedent and open floodgates to unspeakable horrors. I pray that TX authorities have what they need to get better reslults than this going forward. These people need to be stopped not just for the children's sake, but for all who are victimized within the "sect."

 

[cheko1]

I can't imagine the state of Texas leaving themselves wide open for all of the lawsuits which will follow.

CPS has had a awful job. The mothers lie about which child is theirs. They have lied constantly. The kids have been abused, the state don't know who, many of the parents are.

What a catastrophe for the kids! They'll never be able to get out now.

 

[Fairy1]

I can't imagine the state of Texas leaving themselves wide open for all of the lawsuits which will follow.

CPS has had a awful job. The mothers lie about which child is theirs. They have lied constantly. The kids have been abused, the state don't know who, many of the parents are.

What a catastrophe for the kids! They'll never be able to get out now.

You're right Cheko - these people have not been truthful or forthcoming. These are not trademarks of people who have nothing to hide. But I'm at a loss as to how this court came to the conclusion they did today. I believe Warren Jeffs is laughing his azz off tonight. His people have discovered the perfect way to commit pedophelia - and GOD knows what else - in the name of religion. There will be no stopping freaks who want to commit these acts after this. Call it "religion" and build huge walls around your compound - then do whatever you want. On US soil. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! :banghead::banghead:

 

[mysteriew]

Don't panic yet. Texas still has the right to file an appeal of the appeal. And like Cheko, I can't imagine them leaving themselves open to lawsuits by not filing it.

The big issue is a legal definition of 'household'. Yes, CPS can remove all the children in the household if they determine abuse is occurring- under the presumption that all of the kids are in danger of being abused. But in this case, they counted the compound one household.

What FLDS is alleging is that if there were no underage married girls in the home unit, then there was no abuse in the home. Texas CPS is trying to justify that all of the home units were in danger because of the underage/plural/incestuous marriage policies and that all of the home units should be counted as one household.

Texas is just now having the opportunity to get the names straight, they haven't had time to work on who is married to who and how they are related yet. This appeal was filed and heard immediately, so Texas really didn't have much time to prepare for the appeal with all the evidence they had.

But the number of 'minor' girls who are turning out to be adults aren't helping things.

 

[Fairy1]

Don't panic yet. Texas still has the right to file an appeal of the appeal. And like Cheko, I can't imagine them leaving themselves open to lawsuits by not filing it.

The big issue is a legal definition of 'household'. Yes, CPS can remove all the children in the household if they determine abuse is occurring- under the presumption that all of the kids are in danger of being abused. But in this case, they counted the compound one household.

What FLDS is alleging is that if there were no underage married girls in the home unit, then there was no abuse in the home. Texas CPS is trying to justify that all of the home units were in danger because of the underage/plural/incestuous marriage policies and that all of the home units should be counted as one household.

Snipped - for space only....

Thank you -I'm trying not to panic and I sincerely hope TX is on top of the situation. I know that most of the posters here are concerned right now about the children - as am I. However, many of the women of this sect were born, raised and married into it and they are victims too. As are the "lost boys" who have been banished for no valid reason. There are many victims here and I would hope that the courts look at the matter in totality - if they can.

 

[mysteriew]

Well, it looks like I am wrong. The issue the FLDS is complaining about is the general mass hearings that were held for the kids, instead of individual hearings where they outlined the dangers for each individual child.

And though the FLDS seems to be celebrating and counting on the kids coming home, I am reading things a bit differently.

This article outlines the possible actions that Texas can take.

At a press conference earlier in the day, Balovich had said there was a 10-day period for the district judge to vacate the order placing children in state custody. That is incorrect, Balovich said Thursday evening.
CPS could choose to comply with the order and return some or all children. It could seek a stay of the appellate ruling. And it could appeal, a move it has already indicated to TRLA attorneys that it intends to make.
If CPS and the district judge do nothing, the appeals court will order the children returned to their parents, Balovich said.
http://origin.sltrib.com/news/ci_9347022

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I think that the CPS will wait until the 9th day to file the appeal. That way they buy themselves more time. Because once it is filed it will give them a few days to get a court date. Then extra days for the Supreme court to hear the case, and extra days to come to a decision etc. By the time all is said and done, they could end up with an extra two weeks to a month to investigate it more. Because once they file it, it automatically sets the Appeletes, motion to a stay. And it could take up to 30 days for Texas Supreme court to hear the case. It has been known the US Supreme court to take YEARS to hear a case.

 

[mysteriew]

I agree, I think they will wait until the last minute to file the appeal. And yes, if they go to the US Supreme Court, many many of those kids will be aged out of the system before it is heard.

Financially it will cost Texas. But right now Texas holds most of the cards. And now may be the only time they have to take this action, if they wait then the FLDS could very well begin entering the political arena which could block any chance to do it later. Just like it has in Co and Ut. And just like one of the leaders has threatened to do.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

The first step was the third court of appeals, who ruled in favor of the FLDS the next step is the Texas supreme court but that could take weeks to months to hear as well. Then its off to the Federal Court system.

 

[mysteriew]

I don't think they have any choice but to do it though. If they don't then the FLDS will be filing lawsuits out the kazoo.

 

[anneinchicago]

Hallelujah, justice has been served.

Doesn't anyone care that one of the so called child brides is actually 27? Or that the original call has been determined to be a hoax? Or that there is no proof that these children were abused?

And, if I may also ask, even if these children are at risk of being married off before the age of consent, does that mean that they do not love their mothers or that their mothers might love them? So why are they being separated? Why are they not being removed from the ranch and then being kept together? What purpose does separating a mother and her child serve?

Why are the men not being punished?

I also know that I certainly wouldn't my children taken from me simply because of rumors and a prank phone call.

 

[Seven]

Texas Rio Grande Legal Aide response:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/22/flds.ruling/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

The spokeswoman says "this is a great day for families" but she never once said the word "father." She talked about the mothers and the children and the "families."

Big Pink Elephant ~ ~ ~ F A T H E R S

Where are they?
How many individual homes are there on YFZ?


Is it not abuse to brain wash a girl that she is not the equal of a boy? Is it not a girl's civil right to learn that, in our society, girls are the equals of boys?

 

[believe09]

Hallelujah, justice has been served.

Doesn't anyone care that one of the so called child brides is actually 27? Or that the original call has been determined to be a hoax? Or that there is no proof that these children were abused?

And, if I may also ask, even if these children are at risk of being married off before the age of consent, does that mean that they do not love their mothers or that their mothers might love them? So why are they being separated? Why are they not being removed from the ranch and then being kept together? What purpose does separating a mother and her child serve?

Why are the men not being punished?

I also know that I certainly wouldn't my children taken from me simply because of rumors and a prank phone call.

I agree substantially with this, and I want to add that I read a statement today that just brought everything into perspective for me in terms of why there was such a push to classify some of the women as children:

Characterizing them as children allowed the state to question them without attorneys present because there was no clear representation of who was a parent...think about it-the members of the sect had been coached to change their last names, etc...and perhaps to be intentionally confusing as to whom their mothers were much less their fathers.

It will be very interesting to see how this all plays out....

 

[Trino]

If the children are returned to the mothers, hey, Texas, go after the fathers for child support. I cannot understand why there is no emphasis upon the fathers. The mothers are collecting welfare; the fathers enablers who aren't paying for support of their many kids.

The first of the law suits?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/22/flds.mother/index.html

 

[mysteriew]

If the children are returned to the mothers, hey, Texas, go after the fathers for child support. I cannot understand why there is no emphasis upon the fathers. The mothers are collecting welfare; the fathers enablers who aren't paying for support of their many kids.

The first of the law suits?
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/22/flds.mother/index.html

Pamela Jessop does look younger than 18, so I really don't blame CPS for questioning her age. Also at the age of 18, she already had one child age 1. So that means she was most likely under the age of consent when she conceived that first child.

If they file a federal lawsuit, it will be hard going. First it will mainly be a matter of 'he said, she said'. CPS will have their witnesses as to what she said, and FLDS will have their witnesses. She says she told them her name and age and she may have. But was she one of the ones who kept changing her name and age, switching ID bracelets and etc.? I am also wondering if this is one of the ones who when the mothers were ordered to leave, and changed their age again and said they were minors so they could stay with their children?

The only problem I see is the confusion that would have been going on with CPS in the compound. In the paperwork the CPS completed about who they had in custody, and who was who, I would imagine that paperwork had to be redone several times as people kept changing their names. If one caseworker put her age down as an adult and the worker following her made her a minor again that is going to hurt- unless there are witnesses that she kept telling them different ages.

 

[mykodiak]

Texas CPS will appeal. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080523/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

 

[cheko1]

You're right Cheko - these people have not been truthful or forthcoming. These are not trademarks of people who have nothing to hide. But I'm at a loss as to how this court came to the conclusion they did today. I believe Warren Jeffs is laughing his azz off tonight. His people have discovered the perfect way to commit pedophelia - and GOD knows what else - in the name of religion. There will be no stopping freaks who want to commit these acts after this. Call it "religion" and build huge walls around your compound - then do whatever you want. On US soil. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! :banghead::banghead:

For sure Fairy1 they went over & bombed Iraq for injustices. That wasn't much worse then what is going on here in the USA in many states. They hung Saddam Hussein.........so I am really anxious to see where the court system thinks this is all ok to do here! Just don't get it.....:furious::furious::furious:

 

[cheko1]

I am now reading Escape by Carolyn Jessop she had stated twice in the first 64 pages that boy chilren are looked upon more highly then the girls in the FLDS. I was surprised she stated that 2 times & knowing about the LOST BOYS it made very little sense to me.

I understand it is hard for the women but now they have seen what it is like to be out of the compound & could leave with there kids & never go back. I have not a ounce of pity for ANY of them.

 

[Rino]

For sure Fairy1 they went over & bombed Iraq for injustices. That wasn't much worse then what is going on here in the USA in many states. They hung Saddam Hussein.........so I am really anxious to see where the court system thinks this is all ok to do here! Just don't get it.....:furious::furious::furious:

I just don't get your post. The Iraqi gov't hung SH for starters....

 

[cheko1]

Hallelujah, justice has been served.

Doesn't anyone care that one of the so called child brides is actually 27? Or that the original call has been determined to be a hoax? Or that there is no proof that these children were abused?

And, if I may also ask, even if these children are at risk of being married off before the age of consent, does that mean that they do not love their mothers or that their mothers might love them? So why are they being separated? Why are they not being removed from the ranch and then being kept together? What purpose does separating a mother and her child serve?

Why are the men not being punished?

I also know that I certainly wouldn't my children taken from me simply because of rumors and a prank phone call.

I honestly don't feel that justice was served. The gal who was a child bride is actually 27 should of spoken up & not lied about who she was / who her kids were / denied kids / then reclaimed them. Same way with the poor kids.........what a travesty for them to not know who there parents are!

The mothers DO NOT raise there kids. The kids are kept from there moms & most of the time DON'T know which Dad is theres. Once a girl is married off she is to cut all ties with her family.

I'm pretty certain once it is proven who the parents of the kids actually are charges will be filed ASAP for all abuse performed to the kids. I'm quite certain it will be massive. The FLDS shouldn't be crowing to loudly yet.