Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[lil_buddy]

While researching Stephanie Lazarus
Stephanie Lazarus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I stumbled upon the concept of the 'eraser killer'.
It's like the more psychopathic version of a crime of passion.

http://marileestrong.blogspot.com/2008/04/what-makes-eraser-killers-different.html

 

[lil_buddy]

Found a REALLY interesting article about how people suddenly snap and become violent:
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-26/...chiatrists-schizophrenia-buildup?_s=PM:HEALTH

 

[Zeno49]

A cold-blooded psychopathic killer seeks satisfaction from knowing the victim saw his death coming. They often sacrifice the advantage of surprise to make sure the victim sees the revenge is at hand. They also keep souvenirs, pose their victims, etc.

I suggest this explains why Jodi took pictures of TA in the shower. I believe (MOO naturally) that he was stabbed in the heart while his arms were duct taped together (tape going around his back sticky side down) and she was sitting on top of him. Thus disabled, she could untape him and let him shower while she got dressed, got her camera ready, etc. He thought she was gone so he wasn't running anywhere. He didn't realize he was critically wounded - you can see him putting pressure on the chest wound while in the shower. He sits down in the shower because he is feeling lightheaded.

When Jody returns, she has the gun and the camera. She is ready to take her photographic record of his murder so she will have pictures of him seeing his revenge coming, begging for mercy, dying cleanly from the gunshot wound. She also doesn't realize the heart stab was not immediately fatal. She opens the shower door, he sees her and is surprised and terrified at the same time- hence the "what the hell" look on his face. She shoots, he experiences a huge jolt of adrenaline and lunges at her--she tries to shoot again, the gun jams and she runs back to the bedroom to get the knife.

TA had fallen to the ground but pulls himself up to the sink coughing and choking with a bullet in his cheek. He is in great pain and is screaming for help. She returns with the knife and tries to finish him off and her fury increases as she is fearful someone will hear. The battle goes down the hall, she slits his throat there and then drags him back to the bathroom, trying to reclaim the scene as it should have been, as she imagined it would be in those hours driving to Mesa.

He spoiled it and made a huge mess when it was supposed to be so simple. Him thwarting her plans yet again explains the rage escalation that lead to the vicious almost superhuman strength she had to almost decapitate a man and then drag his body.

I think she forgot all about the camera in her wild antics afterwards where she ran around bundling up sheets to throw in the washer. I think she took the pillow to use sleeping in the car, used the pillowcase to stuff her bloody clothes in, and left the house in a rush.

.

I think there is a lot of “truth” to your proposed crime scene.
I agree that the initial murder attempt proved unexpectedly abortive . My hunch is rather than rage JA became panic stricken. She viciously sliced his throat open because he just would NOT die for her.
I agree she had an enormous amount of blood to attend to – something she NEVER imagined on her drive to Mesa. To clean up as much as possible caused a lot of ancillary activity during which the camera became lost or forgotten. And besides she deleted the photos first and by tossing it into the wash JA thought the camera would have been totally destroyed.
I keep coming back however to the time line. To achieve such a murder inside 2 minutes was an incredible feat. She had to have a HUGE amount of adrenaline pumping through her blood stream from 5:30PM – 7:30PM.

 

[elementary]

I think she is a narcissistic and sadistic psychopath. The narcissism is expressed in the rage killing. The sadism is obvious, a means to exert exceptional power and control. I think she used sex for power and control. He was finally saying no and that he preferred women other than her. Her narcissistic injury was so huge, that she needed to annihilate him. And it was easy for her to execute because she is a psychopath. She used a knife to make Travis' murder up close and personal, she could watch him squirm like a bug and suffer in terror and pain. It was like a curiosity to her and tremendously satisfying.

I think she relishes every moment on the stand, takes duping delight in her lies, as a psychopath is contemptuous of others and feels she is superior to them, delights in shocking the audience with graphic details, loves talking about herself, and presents as absolutely smug, without remorse.

 

[Softail]

Arm Chair?

Heck yeah.... The woman is nucking Futz! I swear, she may have been better off pleading INSANITY!
:gavel:

 

[LynnM]

I am new to the Jodi Arias trial discussion but I have been watching the trial and did see the TV shows about the murder.

I'm not sure what I think about Jodi Arias. Obviously the central fact about her is the savage way she murdered Travis Alexander and we can all see how toxic the relationship was.

But before that, I haven't heard any examples of anything pathological about her. She seems to have always worked hard; she wasn't living off men. She wanted her own way as a teen but that's pretty normal. We haven't heard any examples of drug abuse or theft or violence in her past. I would expect to see previous antisocial behavior if she was a sociopath. Was there any that I missed hearing about? She's told many lies in this case but was she known to be a liar before?

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I have said this for some time now. JA is BPD, with overlap/co-morbidity (Cluster B; Axis II).
Of course, that does not make her "eligible" for an insanity plea. Axis I disorders can do that but not Axis II, typically.

 

[Wolfpack Fan]

I had heard about this case, but I didn't know the trial was going on until I heard about Jodi testifying. That's the only part I've seen. I've read over this site for the past few days. I've seen some of the pictures Jodi took on June 4. There is one that shows Travis's face at 5:29. I think he looks scared. Do you think Jodi was facing him with either the gun or the knife when this picture was taken and that he knew at that time that he was going to die?

 

[pinkie60]

he did look different. dark circles under the eyes, very tired. jodie definetely is not in the same world as most people. i wonder if she had fantasy's of committing a murder. someone on the board thought she might have been turned on by it, being she was ready to get it on with another guy ryan burns right after. i can see all her lying to cover up her fantasy and her 'dirty little secret" of actually committing one.

 

[Whisperer]

When she spoke of sex with Travis as a de-stresser, she was referring to herself, not him. She has projected her faults on to him. She was obsessed and lured him into sex to control him. I suspect she found Mormon men and their virtue as a turn on and she would have the POWER to bring them down.

 

[Whisperer]

I wanted to add here that there is often a comorbidity with people diagnosed with one personality disorder, so that they may be diagnosed with a second one also. If you scroll down to the graph at the link below you can see that there is a high comorbidity between ASPD (antisocial personality disorder - psychopathy) and BPD (Borderline personality disorder) so she may indeed be both.



http://outofthefog.net/Disorders/Comorbidity.html

Fun gal. Not.

Dual diagnoses people sometimes are evil. There is not much to say when you mix a Borderline with Malignant Narcissim other than that. If anyone ever met one or had to work in a facility with them, you would never be the same. It is a life changing experience. They are masters at the english language and will use your words to kill you, or cause harm to you in other ways.

You will experience the wonder of perhaps you are insane. They are that good and that is exaclty what happened to Travis. He began to doubt himself and begn to wonder if he could ever get rid of her. He knew the problem but had no idea how to deal with it. He became confused and tried to appease her so she wouldn't harm her. Take note that is what she is telling you but it is not accurate. He was the one appeasing her. At some level, he knew it was a life saving gesture to always please her.

I had to work around 14 women with this diagnosis....and I didn't lst 3 months. They sucked everything out of me and I will never choose to work in mental health again. It is impossible for me to explain their evil ways. It has been almost 10 years and I haven't recovered yet. I shiver at the thought of being around a Borderline and narcissistic. I can spot them now though....thank heavens!

 

[Gummishoe]

When she spoke of sex with Travis as a de-stresser, she was referring to herself, not him. She has projected her faults on to him. She was obsessed and lured him into sex to control him. I suspect she found Mormon men and their virtue as a turn on and she would have the POWER to bring them down.

I agree, I also think in her sick mind that by going to TA the day before he leaves for Cancun that she could convince him with sex and whatever he wanted, to take her on the trip, why else would she have taken that week off for vacation? In so many text msgs. He has mentioned her as telling lies and games, and knew how she operated. Just saying.

 

[Cate49]

What I find most disturbing is the fact that she remains calm. I would be so emotional they'd have to carry me out in a stretcher. What she has accused Travis of is the worst possible thing a person can be accused.
Her manipulative behavior makes me wonder how she is playing other inmates and quards.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

When she spoke of sex with Travis as a de-stresser, she was referring to herself, not him. She has projected her faults on to him. She was obsessed and lured him into sex to control him. I suspect she found Mormon men and their virtue as a turn on and she would have the POWER to bring them down.

That's one way to look at it but I can't help thinking that, as she described herself on the stand, she'd be every man's dream (not really every man but you know what I mean).

The concept of a woman corrupting a man is new to me. I'm sure it happens but is it really all that common? Usually it's the other way around.

I'm having a problem with the level in which Travis participated in what I label diviant sex acts. Being conservative and wanting the love part of a union to speak louder than the raw sex part, that colors how I view the situation. Now if the love is there and a man has a woman like what Jodi was able to be - that's some men's ultimate dream. The lack of love is the problem as Jodi craved that element of love and wanted adoration that, after a time, he wouldn't give. When he began to put her down EVEN THOUGH HE WAS THE SAME AS HER she flipped and basically said 'I'll show you'. Obviously she's mental in some way but she's also a woman scorned and possibly felt hurt to her core being.

Men should be careful how they treat women too because, as we are seeing, women can become as violent as men have been known to be.

When Travis rejected Jodi based on the idea that SHE WAS BAD/EVIL, she became enraged. The texts show that he authored a lot of the perversity that took place within their relationship. :twocents: Can anyone relate to having to be kept a secret? I know that would hurt me (but I'd move on and turn it inward).
He was a hypocrite and, I think, took the shame of his own choices out on Jodi. Jodi doesn't seem to have shame about their behavior but she won't own his either. Nobody made him do the things he did - his shame belonged to him. :twocents:

The above is my take on what led to the crime, not written to justify it.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Dual diagnoses people sometimes are evil. There is not much to say when you mix a Borderline with Malignant Narcissim other than that. If anyone ever met one or had to work in a facility with them, you would never be the same. It is a life changing experience. They are masters at the english language and will use your words to kill you, or cause harm to you in other ways.

You will experience the wonder of perhaps you are insane. They are that good and that is exaclty what happened to Travis. He began to doubt himself and begn to wonder if he could ever get rid of her. He knew the problem but had no idea how to deal with it. He became confused and tried to appease her so she wouldn't harm her. Take note that is what she is telling you but it is not accurate. He was the one appeasing her. At some level, he knew it was a life saving gesture to always please her.

I had to work around 14 women with this diagnosis....and I didn't lst 3 months. They sucked everything out of me and I will never choose to work in mental health again. It is impossible for me to explain their evil ways. It has been almost 10 years and I haven't recovered yet. I shiver at the thought of being around a Borderline and narcissistic. I can spot them now though....thank heavens!

How did she cause him to want to participate in tying her to a tree while he blankity blanked her in the blank? Those were his desires. Why is that her fault and how is he justified for calling her a *advertiser censored*? Wasn't he a '*advertiser censored*' too?

She claims she is a pleaser and she gave herself to him freely. Lots of men need to seek out professionals, behind their wive's backs, for fulfillment of their fantasy sex acts. Why did Travis have to turn on her and put her down about who she is/was with him versus breaking it off with her BEFORE he degradated her essence? Sexually they were the same but he judged her for what THEY did together. :waitasec:

 

[Whisperer]

I believe Jodi turned Travis inside out. After awhile, the degraded sex became the norm. I believe she taught him almost every nasty deed they deed.

She, instinctively knew what he wanted and what his weaknesses were...as all psychopths do. She lured him into the perversion. He wanted out and wanted to go back to normal. She was not about to let that occur because that meant she had to go for that to happen.

These types are masters at manipulation. Even to trained therapists, they will wrap you up and spit you out. They twist you and turn you and you will doubt yourself. It is pure evil and for those who have never experienced it, it will not be understood. I have seen it at work and had to experience it in the job I had. It will chill you to the bone. I have seen small buckets of blood in some of the workings they pull off in attempted suicide (of course, they weren't going to die as they had it timed for staff to discover the deed). I know of them tormenting patients in their sleep by standing over them with a knife. Jodie is pure evil. She has got by in life on her looks and manipulation. They watch/monitor everything you do. You are not aware of this at first.

Sure Travis fell for the sex. He was a target for this. He had no idea that this kind of evil exists and certainly didn't think sex escapades were going to kill him. He got down and dirty with her. He acted as if in a trance around her when they played out their fantasies. When he woke up, his fate was sealed.

I have watched trained psychiatrists and psychologists lose their jobs over these cons. They play people against each other and you will never see it coming. Even people trained in Borderline/narcissitic/anti-social psychopathy fall in their trap. They are THAT good. Travis was a victim and nothing more in her web of evil.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I agree Whisperer .. As the trial moves on I'm moving further away from my borderline opinion and towards psychopathy although I do think there was a mix of both. She's showing herself up - which is good. Also agree Travis was sucked into her web, his virginity made him an easy target. Inexperienced and ripe for the pickings.

 

[Whisperer]

I agree Whisperer .. As the trial moves on I'm moving further away from my borderline opinion and towards psychopathy although I do think there was a mix of both. She's showing herself up - which is good. Also agree Travis was sucked into her web, his virginity made him an easy target. Inexperienced and ripe for the pickings.

I had not considered her as Borderline at first because many borderlines are cutters. There are different types of Borderlines however.

When I worked with the 14 Borderlines with dual diagnosis, I have picked out that three of them were pure evil and definitely could be homicidal. Their craftiness cannot be imagined....and it is downright scarey...I am not kidding, nor am I being dramatic. After only being around them for three months, it makes me shudder after all these years. They will split staff and set out to destroy anyone around them, particularly those that want to help them.

Nothing is at seems around these types. I have never meant anyone that can make anyone understand them or what they are like. As I said before, one hint is when you meet somebody and spend a little time, you walk away with the feeling something just isn't right and you can't pinpoint what it is. you may have met one. If you always leave a phone call angry or sad, you may have been tallking to a borerline.

But I have found when you mix in Borderline with these narcissistic/sociopathic traits, you have an entirely different situation going on...and it is time to walk away.

 

[Whisperer]

How did she cause him to want to participate in tying her to a tree while he blankity blanked her in the blank? Those were his desires. Why is that her fault and how is he justified for calling her a *advertiser censored*? Wasn't he a '*advertiser censored*' too?

She claims she is a pleaser and she gave herself to him freely. Lots of men need to seek out professionals, behind their wive's backs, for fulfillment of their fantasy sex acts. Why did Travis have to turn on her and put her down about who she is/was with him versus breaking it off with her BEFORE he degradated her essence? Sexually they were the same but he judged her for what THEY did together. :waitasec:

:seeyao you believe that she was simply a pleaser? I think there is more to it than that.

He turned on her when he woke up and found her in his email, calling and texting him endlessly, taping his calls, slashing his tires and his GF's tires, stalking him, entering his home univited and insisting he be at her beck and call FOREVER. She was probably caught in countless lies.

He got tired of her despite their sexual escapades and wanted her out of his life. The name calling comes out of frustration. Men do it alot. He was sooooo tired of her. She degraded herself, because she didn't see it, he pointed it out. Because he shared his fantasies (and believed it was private), he paid the ultimate price.

Watch her answers and her demeanor, she is an arrogant evil sociopath. I find it difficult to imagine anyone supporting her but I know some will....they do not see or have never experience this sort of behavior. They may, naively, think evil doesnt exist or think that only men sre sexual deviants.

 

[ron351ne]

I had heard about this case, but I didn't know the trial was going on until I heard about Jodi testifying. That's the only part I've seen. I've read over this site for the past few days. I've seen some of the pictures Jodi took on June 4. There is one that shows Travis's face at 5:29. I think he looks scared. Do you think Jodi was facing him with either the gun or the knife when this picture was taken and that he knew at that time that he was going to die?

Expects should examine the image in his eye. With the right equipment they may be able to see something and it may conflict with her story?