AS lie detector test

[*Lash*]

Thank you Carioca!

:yourock:

 

[Carioca]

Betty - I didn't pick up on that initially so I went back to look at it again. I did
read yesterday about a dozen "experts" discussing tips on lie detection and shaking one's head different than the answer he/she gives is a "lie tell."

And note AS never says Rebecca's name. He says Max's, but not the victim's, even though Mr Redden includes Rebecca's name in his questions. This is often a red flag: distancing from the victim. I am not accusing AS; this is just an observation in this case.

Interesting article on reading body language when taking a LDT:
http://suite101.com/article/how-to-...ome-a-lie-detector-a348664#.UY-c4UYS-vw.email

 

[*Lash*]

And note AS never says Rebecca's name. He says Max's, but not the victim's, even though Mr Redden includes Rebecca's name in his questions. This is often a red flag: distancing from the victim. I am not accusing AS; this is just an observation in this case.

Interesting article on reading body language when taking a LDT:
http://suite101.com/article/how-to-...ome-a-lie-detector-a348664#.UY-c4UYS-vw.email

Kind of like when Adam told the 911 operator I got a girl hung herself.

ADAM SHACKNAI: Yeah, I got a girl hung herself in the guest house of ah... it's on Ocean Blvd. across from the hotel; the same place that you came and got the kid yesterday.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/16150816/911-call-released-in-hanging-death-at-coronados-spreckels-mansion

 

[time]

Where did AS get the knife? From a drawer as stated in the Ann's book or from a butcher block as stated during Adam's polygraph examination?

Snip-

AS: I think.. I got to reach her and realized I wasn't going to be able to get her off without a knife. You know I tried -- I realized -- quite quickly. You know I realized this thing will happen like this. I went around the back into the house which the door was open. I got a knife with the butcher block thing -- came back out -- cut her down -- and tried called 9-1-1 shortly thereafter -- if not before.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/...raph-exam-of-adam-shacknai?clienttype=generic


Snip -

“The Memphis tugboat captain said he was crossing the square of grass below the balcony of Becky’s bedroom/office when he saw her hanging there. Luckily, he had been able to find the right drawer in the large kitchen where knives were kept, and he grabbed one and raced back to cut her down.”

Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.” This material may be protected by copyright.

PURPLE BBM - Sorry if I am somehow having a dumb moment, I just can't make sense of this. I thought there was a kitchen entry into the courtyard? When AS says he went around to the back... where is the back?

 

[Serpico]

PURPLE BBM - Sorry if I am somehow having a dumb moment, I just can't make sense of this. I thought there was a kitchen entry into the courtyard? When AS says he went around to the back... where is the back?

Hey Time -

A few answers to this and previous question. Previous question - Adam began his polygraph at 6:40 pm Wed. evening and lasted 2 hours. Paul Redden gave Adam Shacknai FOUR polygraphs tests. Source :Ann Rule's book - page 184.

Where is back? The Shacknai family always KNEW over the years the backdoor was unlocked. Dina knew it,Nina knew it and Adam who said he's visited there 4-5 times knew it. However, Tuesday night was the first time Rebecca was ALONE in that big main house with the Romano sister's lurking about...kinda wonder if Rebecca didn't LOCK that backdoor and the backdoor was UNLOCKED by a key.....Jonah's "key" that he had with his car keys that he lent to one of the Romano girls Tuesday night at Rady Hospital at 9;00 pm. This just another reason why we need to hear/read from ADT Security about the service contract/policy at 1043 Ocean Blvd. Sheriff Gore at his sham Sept. 2,2011 Press Conference when asked replied tersely by saying,' it (security system) wasn't on/working properly" next question. That has been the ONLY official word about ADT Security except that from 2008-2011 there were 8 police responses to 1043 Ocean Blvd. when the alarm was tripped so it wasn't working well enough back then.

 

[Carioca]

Adam said in the polygraph exam, "She couldn't live with it."

Are these the exact same words used by Nina in her audio interview with CBS8?

NINA:
No, no, my thinking was she did know more than what she said and more than she admitted to -- that was my initial reaction was oh my gosh -- like what did she do -- what on earth did she do that she couldn’t live with -- that was my initial reaction.

ADAM:
AS: It's just what crossed my mind you know -- just because -- I thought she was THERE, when Max got hurt, supposedly. UM UM -- you know maybe she just can't LIVE with it, you know. I've never been in that situation. I'm not going to -- I can't say that I could, especially if it was someone else's kid, you know.

 

[time]

Hey Time -

A few answers to this and previous question. Previous question - Adam began his polygraph at 6:40 pm Wed. evening and lasted 2 hours. Paul Redden gave Adam Shacknai FOUR polygraphs tests. Source :Ann Rule's book - page 184.

Thank you! What I'm trying to figure out is how much opportunity he had to talk with others before that poly and how that may effect the goofy answers we hear from him. IDK. I wonder who he was in contact with between the time he called 911 and over 12 hours later.

Where is back? The Shacknai family always KNEW over the years the backdoor was unlocked. Dina knew it,Nina knew it and Adam who said he's visited there 4-5 times knew it. However, Tuesday night was the first time Rebecca was ALONE in that big main house with the Romano sister's lurking about...kinda wonder if Rebecca didn't LOCK that backdoor and the backdoor was UNLOCKED by a key.....Jonah's "key" that he had with his car keys that he lent to one of the Romano girls Tuesday night at Rady Hospital at 9;00 pm. This just another reason why we need to hear/read from ADT Security about the service contract/policy at 1043 Ocean Blvd. Sheriff Gore at his sham Sept. 2,2011 Press Conference when asked replied tersely by saying,' it (security system) wasn't on/working properly" next question. That has been the ONLY official word about ADT Security except that from 2008-2011 there were 8 police responses to 1043 Ocean Blvd. when the alarm was tripped so it wasn't working well enough back then.

I still don't know where the back or back door is. Seems to me it would either be the courtyard or a door facing towards the back right below the balcony room - I have unsuccessfully searched for floor plans. There is some door near the kitchen coming out into the courtyard.

Good points on the security and why nothing informative about it instead of just a vague statement.

I believe Nina and Dina knew exactly where to get in if a door was left unlocked, but even so they quite possibly could have had house keys on those keys from Jonahs car or I can see that Jonah may have never changed the locks and Dina still had an old key.

 

[Carioca]

PURPLE BBM - Sorry if I am somehow having a dumb moment, I just can't make sense of this. I thought there was a kitchen entry into the courtyard? When AS says he went around to the back... where is the back?

There was no kitchen entry directly from the courtyard. It was necessary to go through the gate to the right under the balcony, then sharp left to reach the door to the kitchen. (Or go through door to the left at end of walkway under the balcony that led into the main house, take a sharp right to the butler's pantry, then into the kitchen.)

After the renovation, there is now a door from the kitchen directly onto the courtyard.

 

[time]

There was no kitchen entry directly from the courtyard. It was necessary to go through the gate to the right under the balcony, then sharp left to reach the door to the kitchen. (Or go through door to the left at end of walkway under the balcony that led into the main house, take a sharp right to the butler's pantry, then into the kitchen.)

After the renovation, there is now a door from the kitchen directly onto the courtyard.

So the door in this picture is not directly connected or close to the kitchen?

 

[bourne]

NINA:
No, no, my thinking was she did know more than what she said and more than she admitted to -- that was my initial reaction was oh my gosh -- like what did she do -- what on earth did she do that she couldn’t live with -- that was my initial reaction.

ADAM:
AS: It's just what crossed my mind you know -- just because -- I thought she was THERE, when Max got hurt, supposedly. UM UM -- you know maybe she just can't LIVE with it, you know. I've never been in that situation. I'm not going to -- I can't say that I could, especially if it was someone else's kid, you know.

Wow, the phrasing is almost identical! Can this be a coincidence? Hmm...

I had a friend in college who committed suicide. I know "couldn't live with it" was not a phrase I and my friends' family and friends used to describe him when asked why we thought he might have killed himself.

I remember I was in shock and numb, and was in denial for a few days. What I and his family did do was ask questions like "Why would he do that...", "I don't know why...", "I don't understand why he didn't confide in us...", "what was happening in his life...", "did someone say or do something to him...", "Who was the last one to see/talk to him..." All QUESTIONS. Not one of us presumed he couldn't live with himself, and like Rebecca, my friend had been going through a crisis too at that time.

Again, we asked questions. NOT ONCE did we say "he couldn't live with it."

Very very odd that BOTH Nina and Adam stated that Rebecca "couldn't live with it..." It's like they were projecting their own frames of mind onto Rebecca. But how strange if they didn't confide in each other beforehand that both would have independently come up with similar thoughts that when a nonbiological child that belongs to a friend/partner is injured and in a hospital (and had not perished), a woman would immediately feel such guilt as to decide to take her own life over the child's injury. I find that absurd illogical thinking.

 

[Serpico]

NINA:
No, no, my thinking was she did know more than what she said and more than she admitted to -- that was my initial reaction was oh my gosh -- like what did she do -- what on earth did she do that she couldn’t live with -- that was my initial reaction.

ADAM:
AS: It's just what crossed my mind you know -- just because -- I thought she was THERE, when Max got hurt, supposedly. UM UM -- you know maybe she just can't LIVE with it, you know. I've never been in that situation. I'm not going to -- I can't say that I could, especially if it was someone else's kid, you know.

Excellent. I have now looked at Adam's 5 minute video about 20 times and it seems I pick up something each time. I know this wasn't the entire polygraph video but when Adam explains right at the beginning his exhaustive efforts to remove the noose around RZ's neck which forced him to run to the main house for a knife. TWO things stand out.
1- why didn't he simply remove the GAG out of her mouth then rather than about 5 minutes later AFTER he cut her down? Red Flag story to me.
2- why doesn't Adam ever mention that after grabbing the 3 legged table top to stand on to cut RZ down the difficulty of keeping the table steady without falling down. Geez ...after he cut her down there is at least 270 lbs of combined weight on top of that 3 legged table top.Red Flag Alert....Adam mentions bringing up *advertiser censored* on his iPhone out of the clear blue yet fails to mention THE crucial moment of the morning....cutting RZ down and never mentions how difficult it was with a 3 legged table top.Hmmm.... kinda makes you wonder if RZ was ever cut down rather placed on the lawn from the get go.

 

[Carioca]

So the door in this picture is not directly connected or close to the kitchen?

Here you go, Time: the floor plan for the main house and guest house.
Red arrows show the route from courtyard to the kitchen through the main house. So yes, that door in picture directly left of big kitchen window leads to the kitchen, but not directly...
Purple arrows show the route to the kitchen through the gate and back door, the one AS allegedly took.
Note location of guesthouse kitchen, bedrooms and living room.

 

[time]

Here you go, Time: the floor plan for the main house and guest house.
Red arrows show the route from courtyard to the kitchen through the main house. So yes, that door in picture directly left of big kitchen window leads to the kitchen, but not directly...
Purple arrows show the route to the kitchen through the gate and back door, the one AS allegedly took.
Note location of guesthouse kitchen, bedrooms and living room.

Thank you so much, now I understand! I looked all over and couldn't find those so this is much appreciated.

I am so laughing at the gate label

Not sure if the guesthouse kitchen would be any closer, but AS must have known the back door was unlocked, huh?

Honestly I find it very odd that Rebecca was even in that balcony room... are there stairs leading up there directly? Why would Nina even go to the back. Oh, yeah to see if Rebecca's car was in the garage. I wouldn't do that at my sister's ex husband's house to hunt down his girlfriend/partner. I find it creepy that she even owns up to taking that liberty at someone elses house.

You're super!!!

 

[inthedark14]

So, has anyone found out anything about Mr. P. calling 911? Has anyone seen anything about this?

 

[Serpico]

Thank you so much, now I understand! I looked all over and couldn't find those so this is much appreciated.

I am so laughing at the gate label

Not sure if the guesthouse kitchen would be any closer, but AS must have known the back door was unlocked, huh?

Honestly I find it very odd that Rebecca was even in that balcony room... are there stairs leading up there directly? Why would Nina even go to the back. Oh, yeah to see if Rebecca's car was in the garage. I wouldn't do that at my sister's ex husband's house to hunt down his girlfriend/partner. I find it creepy that she even owns up to taking that liberty at someone elses house.

You're super!!!

Wasn't the car RZ used to pick up Adam in the DRIVEWAY Tuesday night?

 

[time]

Wasn't the car RZ used to pick up Adam in the DRIVEWAY Tuesday night?

You are right! Thanks for correcting me.

"Romano then walked around the driveway side of the house and noticed Zahau's vehicle in the driveway."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths

I guess she walked to the gate then because she claimed she saw the light on.

"There's a gate that goes to the backyard. I didn't touch the gate. I didn't try to open the gate in any way. I just kind of tried to look through," Romano said.

Romano noticed a light on in an upstairs bedroom; the same room where detectives believe Zahau bound and gagged herself while naked, tied a rope around her own neck and jumped to her death off the balcony.

"That overhead light was on. So that was the only light that I saw in the house. The kitchen was dark, everything was dark. So I thought, that's kind of strange because her car's here; that light's on, that's weird. So then I just thought, ‘Maybe she just doesn't want to talk to me,'" according to Romano. "So, I turned around and I left right away and I walked back to my sister's house, got ready for bed and went to sleep."

 

[iSleuth]

Here you go, Time: the floor plan for the main house and guest house.
Red arrows show the route from courtyard to the kitchen through the main house. So yes, that door in picture directly left of big kitchen window leads to the kitchen, but not directly...
Purple arrows show the route to the kitchen through the gate and back door, the one AS allegedly took.
Note location of guesthouse kitchen, bedrooms and living room.

Love that arrow pointing to the gate
"Didn't touch" TYTY:floorlaugh:

 

[iSleuth]

Excellent. I have now looked at Adam's 5 minute video about 20 times and it seems I pick up something each time. I know this wasn't the entire polygraph video but when Adam explains right at the beginning his exhaustive efforts to remove the noose around RZ's neck which forced him to run to the main house for a knife. TWO things stand out.
1- why didn't he simply remove the GAG out of her mouth then rather than about 5 minutes later AFTER he cut her down? Red Flag story to me.
2- why doesn't Adam ever mention that after grabbing the 3 legged table top to stand on to cut RZ down the difficulty of keeping the table steady without falling down. Geez ...after he cut her down there is at least 270 lbs of combined weight on top of that 3 legged table top.Red Flag Alert....Adam mentions bringing up *advertiser censored* on his iPhone out of the clear blue yet fails to mention THE crucial moment of the morning....cutting RZ down and never mentions how difficult it was with a 3 legged table top.Hmmm.... kinda makes you wonder if RZ was ever cut down rather placed on the lawn from the get go.

maybe it was "fog"
I am so glad that there is something happening in this case.

love and hugs to everyone in this thread and welcome to all newcomers!

 

[bourne]

You are right! Thanks for correcting me.

"Romano then walked around the driveway side of the house and noticed Zahau's vehicle in the driveway."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths

I guess she walked to the gate then because she claimed she saw the light on.

But can we trust Nina's statements? And if we do, wasn't Zahau's vehicle then stated by police in a report that it was found in the garage the next day (Wed) after her death? If so, one has to wonder WHO MOVED Zahau's car in the middle of the night AND WHY?

 

[time]

But can we trust Nina's statements? And if we do, wasn't Zahau's vehicle then stated by police in a report that it was found in the garage the next day (Wed) after her death? If so, one has to wonder WHO MOVED Zahau's car in the middle of the night AND WHY?

I'll have to dig. I'm wondering if I thought it could have been in the garage because of driveway pictures taken at the crime scene on Wed? Seems we talked about how did the other car (SUV?) get there.