awaiting sentencing phase

[foxbluff]

BBM

I totally agree..the location of those jeans is a piece of the puzzle that should have been addressed..speaking of the pieces of the puzzle brings to mind Chiziweni..

At 3:22 am..which is about 5 minutes after the sound of the bat strikes was heard..and is about 8 to 10 minutes after the shots were heard...Chiziweni was fully awake/dressed greeting Carice and her father..yet we are supposed to let "I didn't hear anything" stand. So if a witness to a crime wants to be left alone...all they have to do is LIE..really?! What if said witness is an accomplice in the crime?!
Chiziweni should have been called as a witness to answer TOUGH questions. I personally can picture him falling apart on the witness stand..

bbm - I'm glad my life doesn't depend on correctly guessing when Frank woke up that morning... but if I had to guess, I would say he woke up in the same timeframe as the next door neighbors.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

June might not attend court for the sentencing.

“I don’t wish to set foot in a courtroom ever again,” she said.

“Touching and wearing her clothes and jewellery makes me feel closer to her".

I found the last quote so terribly sad. It really brings home how much families cling to everything that reminds them of their lost loved one. I’m one of those people who don’t believe in “closure”. IMO you can never have closure when someone kills your child. The most you could ever hope for is that somehow you can move on to some degree but this will take years, not weeks or months.

The Steenkamps are far more charitable when they talk of OP than I could ever be.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ur-daughter-Reeva-Steenkamps-mother-says.html

Totally agree, Judi. “Closure” in murder cases has always irked me. It’s not something you eventually get over - you learn to live with it the rest of your life ... a life sentence. It becomes part of your psyche, forever changing your entire world. It destroys some people, sometimes destroys families.

I don’t blame the Steenkamps for not wanting to attend sentencing. Given what we’ve seen of Masipa, it would in their best interests to stay home.

That June wears Reeva’s clothes and jewelry makes me want to break out into a happy smile and bust out crying. What a lovely, brave, dear woman.

 

[AW2B]

Yes, but in the present set up, PT could ask tough questions only if they had a chance to cross examine him, and the defence team didn't call him, probably for that very reason. So ideally he should also have been charged with something, for being an accomplice or whatever, which would probably have forced him to be exposed to PT cross examination.

The prosecution could have called him as a hostile witness..in the U.S. a hostile witness can be asked leading questions on direct. I'm not sure if they have the same rule in SA.

 

[jay-jay]

If he had wifi then his phone would surely also use it and automatically connect to it whenever he’s at home as it’s faster, doesn’t use his data allowance and is therefore potentially cheaper. Likewise Reeva’s phone too. We wouldn’t see any GPRS data connections during this period but we do. Reeva's is permanently connected; OP's connections are sporadic because I believe he uses Airplane mode to disconnect his phone [/FONT]

~rsbm~

BIB .. just to pick up on that, that wouldn't necessarily be the case that Reeva's would automatically connect to his wifi (if he had one) .. she would have to set her phone to be able to connect to it (entering a password for the router) and probably would never have bothered to do that, seeing as she was already able to get internet access anyway. I can't really see OP bothering to have wifi at his house for his phones/ipads/(computer? did he also have one of these, I've no idea?), to be honest, or even a landline phone, because I get the impression that he only had mobile phones, plus an ipad, and gained internet access via cellular connection (3G, 4G or whatever their equivalent is over there) .. I don't think he would've had wifi as well, although obviously I have no actual proof of that .. he just doesn't strike me as being one to bother with it if he already has the means to make calls and access the internet.

 

[Cloen]

Why South Africa's top murder expert will not be involved in Oscar Pistorius case: she is his aunt

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...r-pistorius-case-she-is-his-aunt-8508750.html

Aunt Mikki caused that another relative, a high police official (Name Le.......??, sorry I don't remember well) drove to the crime scene to help OP. I think, this man took the phone 0020 with him. Of course, he was not controlled and he did not even appear as a witness. Not good. :notgood:

where did you get this information from ? - I knew about the Aunt, but no idea there was another relative who held a position in the police ? have you got any links to this ?

 

[jay-jay]

Did you mean the witness testimony analysis rather than phone chart? If so, it's because I made the font smaller to fit more witnesses on to the screen but I'll change it back if it's a problem.

No, it's ok thanks .. I can see all of them fine now by using the ctrl + function to zoom in

 

[Mr Fossil]

~rsbm~

BIB .. just to pick up on that, that wouldn't necessarily be the case that Reeva's would automatically connect to his wifi (if he had one) .. she would have to set her phone to be able to connect to it (entering a password for the router) and probably would never have bothered to do that, seeing as she was already able to get internet access anyway. I can't really see OP bothering to have wifi at his house for his phones/ipads/(computer? did he also have one of these, I've no idea?), to be honest, or even a landline phone, because I get the impression that he only had mobile phones, plus an ipad, and gained internet access via cellular connection (3G, 4G or whatever their equivalent is over there) .. I don't think he would've had wifi as well, although obviously I have no actual proof of that .. he just doesn't strike me as being one to bother with it if he already has the means to make calls and access the internet.

Yes, Reeva would have needed the password but there's no reason he wouldn't have given it to her, particularly if she worked at his house at times. I agree though, I don't think he has Wi-Fi or a landline. The fact that he has a personal and a business mobile suggests he's totally mobile.

 

[jay-jay]

... Two car magazines, a wedding invitation from Oscar’s cousin, Nollie Pistorius, for Saturday 9 March 2013, and a funeral leaflet are the only signs the Paralympian ever lived here.

... Christo Menelaou, a building contractor and a friend of Oscar who lives on the estate, was appointed to repair the damage. He says setting things right will cost about R150 000. He and his team were fixing cracks on the outside of the house when Oscar still lived there. Oscar had wanted the maintenance done because he’d planned to sell the house. He’d bought a house in Atholl, Johannesburg, and was planning to move there. “The plan was to repair the water damage on the inside once he’d moved out.”

Menelaou will be renting the house in the meantime.

“There is nothing terrible about staying here. It doesn’t bother me.” Walking through the front door the first time after Reeva’s death was “weird”, he concedes. “All the furniture was still here. I felt sad. I miss my friend and all the good times and laughs we had in the house.” ...

http://you.co.za/news/oscar-pistoriu...e-oscars-home/

To each his own, but I find it creepy that any friend would want to live in such a house.

.. downright weird, that is!

How the heck did he get to be renting it? It was sold to some other bloke (forgotten his name now), and yet somehow it is being rented back to a friend of Pistorius's? This whole thing just gets weirder by the minute!

.. don't mind being called JJ, by the way!

 

[IndianSummer]

I was surprised at this quote in link http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/11116044/Pistorius-should-pay-for-killing-our-daughter-Reeva-Steenkamps-mother-says.html

BBM

Re: “I don’t wish to set foot in a courtroom ever again,” she said. “All we have ever wanted is the truth. We don’t necessarily want him to go to jail. Nothing will change. Reeva is not coming back.”

She probably has not reached an anger stage...anger can (maybe in this case) be positive energy
and (strangely) instill hope ( that she can do something of balance ).
I don't blame her though...This trial was like killing Reeva twice. She actually trusted that OP would
give her answers. Oscar should strive to have at least one hundredth of this lady's compassion.
Sellf serving and reckless bet he will get his comeuppance one day.

JMO

 

[jay-jay]

Yes, Reeva would have needed the password but there's no reason he wouldn't have given it to her, particularly if she worked at his house at times. I agree though, I don't think he has Wi-Fi or a landline.

BIB - I agree, what I was really trying to say that I don't think she/he could be bothered faffing around with things like that .. and to be quite honest, I don't really see him as being very tech savvy, and I get the impression he wouldn't even understand how wifi routers work hence why he would probably find it easier just to use his phones/ipad, that hook up automatically.

 

[jay-jay]

Hence this leaves me wondering why there is no GPRS connection during the 15 minute Binge WhatsApp conversation.

I do have a theory about this but need a little more to support it first. I remain convinced that the phone data tells us more about what happened that night than was used in court.

So is there actually any evidence that these texts/the phone call took place at all, other than a statement given by him and his cousin (and bear in mind we already have evidence that he makes people say things that aren't necessarily true .. maybe this was yet another one of those, who knows?)

 

[AJ_DS]

Those d@mn jeans. Well now you have me cross-eyed looking at that pic again and wondering if that is a belt or not. AJ_DS - I think you may be right. But quite frankly, it's completely irrelevant. There are about 400 other pieces of evidence that support a domestic situation and at what point does the supposition that they are all coincidence become absurd? Apparently Masipa's threshold for the absurd is pretty darn expansive.

Fossil - you are a rock star!

LOL… it's not those 'd@amn jeans"… it's that d@mn belt !!!

For the life of me I can't see a belt on those jeans nor can I conceive of what is being perceived as a belt by some.

Perhaps it's a Rubin vase type of situation : I can only see 2 profiles but some only see a vase

… nevertheless, I fully agree with BiB

 

[LinasK]

Hoping he gets the max sentence of 15 years and that his Olympic career is over because I don't believe shooting an unarmed woman through a closed door was an accident!!!

 

[mrjitty]

Am I sure it was via WhatsApp

Yes, cousin Binge states in his Witness Statement dated 18th Feb 2013:

3. At around 20:10, on 13th Feb 2013 Oscar Pistorius and I exchanged various messages on the cell phone based messaging system WhatsApp.

4. Oscar then phoned me at 20:25 on 13 February 2013.

8. We said goodbye to each other at approximately 20:45.

OP confirms this exchange in his EIC:

"at a point I was texting my Cousin back and forth and I thought maybe I should just phone him and I called him"

They both confirm a messaging exchange is taking place and it implies more than just a couple of messages, hence the reason OP calls him. Binge states it starts at 20:10 and that it’s via WhatApp. This implies a data connection of some 15 minutes duration prior to the call. There is no such connection.

He was surfing *advertiser censored*, wasn’t he?

Yes, but not for long. If we look at his browsing history:

06:29:58 does a google search for ‘you****’
06:30:02 the main site web page is displayed
06:30:25 selects video
06:30:46 does a google search for ‘autotrader sa’

So that’s a maximum of 21 seconds. Many people play YouTube videos (for instance) on their mobiles using a mobile connection.

Could he have been using WhatsApp on his iPad?

Unlikely as it doesn’t naturally run on the iPad (to be pedantic it is possible to make it work but this is tricky). It's a mobile phone application only. It is targeted to the specific mobile using its phone number.

Does OP have Wifi?

I wondered this too. I believe the evidence suggests that OP has neither broadband nor wifi (I see the two going hand in hand where we’re talking about the iPads). I believe the iPads are the models with their own Cellular connection (SIM).

If he had wifi then his phone would surely also use it and automatically connect to it whenever he’s at home as it’s faster, doesn’t use his data allowance and is therefore potentially cheaper. Likewise Reeva’s phone too. We wouldn’t see any GPRS data connections during this period but we do. Reeva's is permanently connected; OP's connections are sporadic because I believe he uses Airplane mode to disconnect his phone

His iPad 3 doesn’t appear to be tethered to his iPhone either because there are periods when he is surfing the web when there is no GPRS connectivity on the phone.

Hence this leaves me wondering why there is no GPRS connection during the 15 minute Binge WhatsApp conversation.

I do have a theory about this but need a little more to support it first. I remain convinced that the phone data tells us more about what happened that night than was used in court.

I recall reading there is no copper or cable internet at the house.

Only cellular.

This is common - i also just got a 4G router but previously i would tether my phone or a mobile hotspot

 

[mrjitty]

The State failed to provide a maximum of objective data such as phone records to elaborate a timeline and offer Masipa something that matched the testimony of witnesses and contradicted OP's version of events. Why did the State feel Johnson's 3:16 and 58 seconds duration from personal notes from personal clock was sufficient ?… Johnson admitted he did not remember if 3:16 was the start time or the end time of the call. Obtaining Johnson's detailed billing would have been easy and provided irrefutable objective evidence.

The Defence exploited this weakness :

- From Stipp, the second set of bangs occurred BEFORE 3:15:51
- From Johnson, the bangs occurred AFTER 3:17:??

This is about a 2-minute discrepancy in an event that latest about 10 minutes, i.e. 20% is a universe of wiggle room for an experienced attorney to generate reasonable doubt… If one takes the event as being the time between both sets of bangs then the event latest probably about 3 minutes and the discrepancy becomes 66% !!!

The following data should have been presented by Moller in a comprehensive timeline from server times :

- Stipp
- Johnson
- EDVM (the husband called security when he saw a "commotion" in front of OP's house)
- Mike
- Security landline
- Security cellphone
- OP

Doing so would have provided the means to pinpoint within a bracket of mere seconds the time of the second set of bangs and eliminated all wiggle room on this point.

I had thought that surely the telco phone records for each phone in question would have been exhibited by the state.

However this does not seem to have happened as Roux's Heads of Argument don't seem to refer to any such exhibit

Some of the technical police work seems a bit lax IMO

 

[mrjitty]

@ AJ_DS

Re the Ammo Possession

Usually these kinds of offences are construed strictly and require only limited mens rea

Intent in this context means only that you were knowingly and intentionally in possession.

So clearly if you find a briefcase of drugs and call the police immediately - you never intended to be in possession.

OP actually did intend to be in possession

Once more the judge also ignored the complete lack of evidence for OPs contention (purchase records etc)

This would make it virtually impossible for the prosecution to prove possession ever.

 

[homegirl]

One can see that both leg pants are not aligned… the jean is folded in half and the top leg is longer than the bottom leg, meaning that the waistband is open and the inside of the jean is exposed at the waistband

1- Belt loop on jean waistband, outside of the jean

2- Jean back pocket

3- Inside of the jean below jean waistband, lighter color

4- Waistband, inside of the jean

For those who see a belt, please point it out

View attachment 59958

Could the jeans be inside out? I sharpened the photo and enhanced the contrast. I labeled the parts as if it were. AJ, I think what some are interpreting as a belt is your #3. None of my jeans have any fabric facing just below the waistband, for what that's worth. I do have dress pants with some facing there. If there is a belt, the part which I labeled "What Is This" could be the end of the belt? I agree that the jeans wouldn't have been very useful to the State's case. Therefore, I wasn't overly interested in them, but all of the discussion piqued my curiosity about them. How I wish that we could see the original evidence photos.

 

[AJ_DS]

Could the jeans be inside out? I sharpened the photo and enhanced the contrast. I labeled the parts as if it were. AJ, I think what some are interpreting as a belt is your #3. None of my jeans have any fabric facing just below the waistband, for what that's worth. I do have dress pants with some facing there. If there is a belt, the part which I labeled "What Is This" could be the end of the belt? I agree that the jeans wouldn't have been very useful to the State's case. Therefore, I wasn't overly interested in them, but all of the discussion piqued my curiosity about them. How I wish that we could see the original evidence photos.

View attachment 60002

No, the jean does not seem inside out to me at least.

On your photo :

- What is this ? = a simple crease/fold in the jean that lines up with a tile joint (thanks to FromGermany)

- Tag = another belt loop… follow the waistband from the first belt loop

- Pocket liner = no… it's the outside of the jean



As for a different fabric inside the jean below the waistband… the liner of the front pockets are made with a light colored fabric as seen on the photo of the inside of my jean

Also jean fabric is "always" 2-tone… even dark blue or black jeans are much lighter in color on the inside.



Here is my attempt at a recreation of the jean position

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Could the jeans be inside out? I sharpened the photo and enhanced the contrast. I labeled the parts as if it were. AJ, I think what some are interpreting as a belt is your #3. None of my jeans have any fabric facing just below the waistband, for what that's worth. I do have dress pants with some facing there. If there is a belt, the part which I labeled "What Is This" could be the end of the belt? I agree that the jeans wouldn't have been very useful to the State's case. Therefore, I wasn't overly interested in them, but all of the discussion piqued my curiosity about them. How I wish that we could see the original evidence photos.

View attachment 60002

I have just tested the jeans thing. Please take your jeans and then turn into: outer side out (left leg) and outer side inside (right leg), belt buckle left side (sight: outside of the jeans!), belt through loops from zipper left side and then loose (not through loops). Your question "What is this?" My answer: This is only the tile joint, perhaps.
Please, prove yourself. Could it be?

 

[Mr Fossil]

So is there actually any evidence that these texts/the phone call took place at all, other than a statement given by him and his cousin (and bear in mind we already have evidence that he makes people say things that aren't necessarily true .. maybe this was yet another one of those, who knows?)

A call took place at the time stated (slightly longer than Binge states). No evidence of the actual messages was presented in open court as no data from OP's phone was ever presented. The message content would probably not be considered relevant to the case.