AZ - Lori Vallow Daybell charged w/ conspiring to kill ex-husband Charles Vallow and another relative, Brandon Boudreaux, Chandler, Maricopa County,

[Ruminations]

I could get the children supporting their father in getting a fair defense, fair incarceration terms, and support him in making the best of incarceration- visiting, writing, sending gifts and funds. I think I would do that for my murdering father unless he abused that by asking me to destroy or fabricate evidence, denigrate the victims or minimize the harm done to them, etc.

If it were my father, if he were not trying to draw me into excusing the crime or getting away with the crime, I would support his making the best of the future he created for himself.

IMO, showing up at Lori's trial could come off as seeing the "real" murderer of their mother get held accountable. In any case, they would be swarmed with people trying to get them on the record blaming Lori exclusively. They did this- especially E., on 48 hours, and it was ugly. That is what I'd call being drawn into minimizing and deflecting from the crime.

It is possible that the children lying low is the most ethical thing they can do right now. It doesn't set them up to defend the indefensible. It might be an improvement from the 48 hours filming, when they were participating in the crime after the fact, in my opinion.

It is okay with me if they want to avoid execution for their father- it's okay with me if they hope he is incarcerated near their home. I think they could want those things and still believe he killed their mother and must face that.

It's also okay with me if they wish him executed and refuse to ever speak to him again.

The only thing I have trouble with is their helping him avoid facing what he's done. And frankly, they will be pushed to doing just that if they publicly follow the case and get statements coaxed from them.

MOO

MOO

 

[indicolite22]

IMO, Chad's children might (still) be blaming Lori for Chad's predicament. As for Tammy, I don't think they acknowledge she was murdered. If they did, it would point to Chad's involvement. If I believed my father murdered my mother, I would not support him.

 

[watergirl62]

I am betting with five children, there is still likely a fair amount of denial going on. Personally, I can't fault them for that either.

 

[LinasK]

I could get the children supporting their father in getting a fair defense, fair incarceration terms, and support him in making the best of incarceration- visiting, writing, sending gifts and funds. I think I would do that for my murdering father unless he abused that by asking me to destroy or fabricate evidence, denigrate the victims or minimize the harm done to them, etc.

If it were my father, if he were not trying to draw me into excusing the crime or getting away with the crime, I would support his making the best of the future he created for himself.

IMO, showing up at Lori's trial could come off as seeing the "real" murderer of their mother get held accountable. In any case, they would be swarmed with people trying to get them on the record blaming Lori exclusively. They did this- especially E., on 48 hours, and it was ugly. That is what I'd call being drawn into minimizing and deflecting from the crime.

It is possible that the children lying low is the most ethical thing they can do right now. It doesn't set them up to defend the indefensible. It might be an improvement from the 48 hours filming, when they were participating in the crime after the fact, in my opinion.

It is okay with me if they want to avoid execution for their father- it's okay with me if they hope he is incarcerated near their home. I think they could want those things and still believe he killed their mother and must face that.

It's also okay with me if they wish him executed and refuse to ever speak to him again.

The only thing I have trouble with is their helping him avoid facing what he's done. And frankly, they will be pushed to doing just that if they publicly follow the case and get statements coaxed from them.

MOO

MOO

I don't get the impression that 48 Hours coaxes the people interviewed to take a certain position. If a producer did that to me and I didn't agree, I'd just refuse to do the interview.

 

[Boxer]

I hope the deniers are there, at least. The truth is hard to accept but Lori didn’t have her affair alone. Chad knew Charles would be murdered. He also knew he put her kids under the dirt in his own yard!! (Sorry kind of graphic) And no telling what he and Lori and Alex did to Tylee. He’s a monster.

Edits to add: Chad killed their Mother!!!

Yeah. What a family dynamic.
She works, bears the kids and he doodles around as a doomsday author/prophet.

 

[GRT]

It always bothers me when the victim in a case's children support their killer parent, and not the victim themselves. That's not justice.

It's hard to understand, unless they truly believe their father's tales. Maybe he's had so much influence over them that they think he's really innocent and it was that blonde strumpet and her evil brother that did all the killing while their poor dad is taking the fall.

I don't know obviously, but when I watched their interview, I got the impression they thought their dad was innocent.

Love is truly blind, I guess.

 

[Ruminations]

I don't get the impression that 48 Hours coaxes the people interviewed to take a certain position. If a producer did that to me and I didn't agree, I'd just refuse to do the interview.

Exactly. 48 hours isn't as pure as snow- they have had interviews that appeared pretty obviously to have agendas on the parts of the interviewees.

I don't follow a lot of cases, but of 2 of the ones I do, it does seem like the Daybell young adults and Fotis Dulos were rather transparently getting out their "side." Fotis for himself and the Daybells for their dad. But the young Daybells have gone quiet. Maybe they just want to focus on families and careers right now. I don't blame them

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

I don't get the impression that 48 Hours coaxes the people interviewed to take a certain position. If a producer did that to me and I didn't agree, I'd just refuse to do the interview.

Exactly. 48 hours has had interviews that appeared pretty obviously to serve agendas on the parts of the interviewees.

I don't follow a lot of cases, but of 2 of the ones I do, it does seem like the Daybell young adults and Fotis Dulos were rather transparently getting out their "side." Fotis for himself and the Daybells for their dad.

But the young Daybells have gone quiet. Maybe they are changing by their perspective. Maybe they don't even want to have any perspective right now. If they just want to focus on families and careers right now, and put off thinking about murder, I don't blame them.

MOO

 

[SteveS]

I doubt that Chad's and Tammy's kids - at this point - buy the claim that Chad murdered their mother. And it's not unreasonable for them to think that, imo.

We are forgetting that Lori's defense was very apathetic. They did not aggressively object to iffy evidence, did not aggressively cross-examine witnesses making dubious claims, did not call expert witnesses to debunk junk science, and did not challenge hearsay and iffy-to-untrue "recaps" of prior testimony by the prosecutors. Instead, they let the state introduce any evidence or supposed-evidence in any way they wanted, and weave any tale they wished, without much objection. Guesses and surmises were allowed to stand unchallenged. It was a pathetic attempt to force the state to actually prove their case.

Most importantly, in relation to things CHAD was accused of doing, the apparent goal of Lori's defense seemed to be to get that over with, and to let the state blame Chad in any way they wanted, for anything they could, and who cares what they say Chad did, and let all that basically go unchallenged.

So at this point, I think it's incredibly premature (and unfair) to cast aspersions at these kids. They are victims of their mother's death. They have nothing to gain in putting themselves under a microscope. And until their dad has gotten his day in court (rather than a court case in which everyone said he did these bad things and no one there in Lori's trial with a chance to defend him or willing to challenge iffy ideas and accusations), it's not fair to question them for perhaps thinking he might be wrongly accused on those things - especially the murder of their mother, given the way the "evidence" on that front was obtained, analyzed, and presented. I think that when Chad has his day in court, some of this stuff will look VERY different when intently scrutinized and challenged by an aggressive defense.

Just my 2c.

 

[aafromaa]

….I don't know obviously, but when I watched their interview, I got the impression they thought their dad was innocent…

I also think at the time of that interview they thought CD was not involved but that LVD & AC had used their friendship with him to sneak in and bury Tylee & JJ - perhaps even without his knowledge.

But that interview was before LVD’s trial and before timeline details and cell phone evidence was released, etc. IIRC I think it was about a year after the bodies were found on the property and CD had been arrested but it was a fairly short time after CD was indicted for murder by the Grand Jury. We know that LE told the Daybell children that TD died by asphyxiation by the time of the interview but we don’t know what else LE had shared or not shared with them at the time - such as the evidence that she had been restrained. Since they were supporting their father, my guess is that LE was not inclined to give many details of the evidence they had against him. (Also note: that asphyxiation can include oxygen deprivation for a variety of reasons - not just that someone is smothered or choked. If that’s all they were told after TD’s autopsy and not told of the bruises indicating restraint, it’s understandable that since they had been told she was sick prior to her death that they would believe it was natural causes.)

In other words, at the time they did the interview, there was probably lots of room for children who loved and trusted their father to doubt that the man they had known all their lives was capable of such horrendous acts.

I’m not so sure that anything they said in that interview would be what they would say today if they were talking. They may not have followed every bit of LVD’s trial as most of us have, but I’m fairly certain that they know the same details we do by now - or at least more than they did when they did that interview.

So for me, nothing said by any of them in that interview gives any insight into how they feel or what they might believe today. They might still be in complete denial or they might believe CD killed their mother and helped in the planning and cover-up of the other murders too even if he didn’t do them himself.

We may never know and as much as part of me wants to know, the other part of me hopes they keep it to themselves and deal with it in their own way out of the public eye and that they can find peace and begin to heal from the pain CD has caused them.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I doubt that Chad's and Tammy's kids - at this point - buy the claim that Chad murdered their mother. And it's not unreasonable for them to think that, imo.

We are forgetting that Lori's defense was very apathetic. They did not aggressively object to iffy evidence, did not aggressively cross-examine witnesses making dubious claims, did not call expert witnesses to debunk junk science, and did not challenge hearsay and iffy-to-untrue "recaps" of prior testimony by the prosecutors. Instead, they let the state introduce any evidence or supposed-evidence in any way they wanted, and weave any tale they wished, without much objection. Guesses and surmises were allowed to stand unchallenged. It was a pathetic attempt to force the state to actually prove their case.

Most importantly, in relation to things CHAD was accused of doing, the apparent goal of Lori's defense seemed to be to get that over with, and to let the state blame Chad in any way they wanted, for anything they could, and who cares what they say Chad did, and let all that basically go unchallenged.

So at this point, I think it's incredibly premature (and unfair) to cast aspersions at these kids. They are victims of their mother's death. They have nothing to gain in putting themselves under a microscope. And until their dad has gotten his day in court (rather than a court case in which everyone said he did these bad things and no one there in Lori's trial with a chance to defend him or willing to challenge iffy ideas and accusations), it's not fair to question them for perhaps thinking he might be wrongly accused on those things - especially the murder of their mother, given the way the "evidence" on that front was obtained, analyzed, and presented. I think that when Chad has his day in court, some of this stuff will look VERY different when intently scrutinized and challenged by an aggressive defense.

Just my 2c.

No one is casting aspersions at the kids. Chad murdered their mother. Fact.
Chad was unfaithful to their mother. Fact.
Chad was in an adulterous relationship with another mans wife and then made sure he was considered “dark” and that Lori would murder him. Fact.
Chad then decided Lori’s children were dark and they should be murdered as well. Fact.

i don’t give one rats behind what they do to Chad but the facts are that four people were murdered because Chad considered himself a prophet and was turned on by Lori.

The REAL victims names are: Charles, Tylee, JJ, and Tammy.

Everyone else in this case is still breathing and have tomorrows ahead.
I feel sorry for Tammy’s children but I feel A LOT sorrier for Tylee and JJ and Tammy and Charles.

 

[SteveS]

No one is casting aspersions at the kids. Chad murdered their mother. Fact.
Chad was unfaithful to their mother. Fact.
Chad was in an adulterous relationship with another mans wife and then made sure he was considered “dark” and that Lori would murder him. Fact.
Chad then decided Lori’s children were dark and they should be murdered as well. Fact.

i don’t give one rats behind what they do to Chad but the facts are that four people were murdered because Chad considered himself a prophet and was turned on by Lori.

The REAL victims names are: Charles, Tylee, JJ, and Tammy.

Everyone else in this case is still breathing and have tomorrows ahead.
I feel sorry for Tammy’s children but I feel A LOT sorrier for Tylee and JJ and Tammy and Charles.

The state of Idaho claims that:
Chad murdered their mother.
Chad was unfaithful to their mother.
Chad was in an adulterous relationship with another mans wife and then made sure he was considered “dark” and that Lori would murder him.
Chad then decided Lori’s children were dark and they should be murdered as well.
FIFY

That's where we are so far. We can think what we want to think, but none of those claims have been proven in a court of law. Not one.

And what we (and Chad's kids) have heard so far about those claims was in a case in which LVD and her attorneys were generally apathetic about challenging any of the state's claims and evidence, and in which BOTH SIDES had every motivation to see Chad blamed. It should be no surprise that, before his trial even begins, the state's spin on the events is seen as pure gospel.

I'm not saying CD's innocent at all. But the "evidence" we think we "know" can look very different when it is challenged by vigorous objections to hearsay, made subject to intense cross-examination that may change everyone's perception of what truly happened, witnesses are held liable for conflicts in what they testify, prosecutors are called to account for inconsistencies and misleading statements, and where expert witnesses weigh in on fake "science" being presented as fact and debunk it. Will any of that change anything? You don't know what you don't know.

So if his kids want to be loyal to the one parent they have left, and want a REAL trial to convince them he killed their mom before they turn away, I can't hold it against them. They have been dealt a really bad hand. He has been accused of vile things, to be sure, but he hasn't even had a trial.

FWIW - I can see him saying Lori with Alex were the ones who did the killing, and attempted killing, and who buried kids in his yard without his knowledge or participation. He will say that the state's spin on his convos with Lori of them talking about murderous things in code were total BS inventions, that there was lots of lust (and phone sex in an icky way) but no thoughts of murder, at least not on his part. And then Tammy was an accidental death (as first pronounced) with the state's later view being completely wrong, and invented to frame him with charges of being a murderer too.

 

[indicolite22]

Chad claimed that Tammy's health was deteriorating and that she refused to see a doctor about it. At least one of his children supported that theory, e.g. stating how Tammy was tired and started going to bed early. IMO it's not likely Chad will suddenly claim Tammy died by accident.

In the end of July 2019 Chad sent Lori a text about Tammy, saying how it was encouraging that her death percentage was falling since Hiplos (zombie name for Charles) left. Then he texted her in early October that Tammy was taken over by a zombie named Viola and that he didn't want to wait with the removal. To me there's zero room left for an alternative explanation. People were not "leaving", they were being dispatched.

Lori Vallow Daybell Texted Husband About 'Perfectly Orchestrated Plan to Take the Children' Before Deaths

Lori Vallow Daybell is on trial in Boise, Idaho, in connection with the deaths of her two children

people.com

 

[Love Never Fails]

The state of Idaho claims that:
Chad murdered their mother.
Chad was unfaithful to their mother.
Chad was in an adulterous relationship with another mans wife and then made sure he was considered “dark” and that Lori would murder him.
Chad then decided Lori’s children were dark and they should be murdered as well.
FIFY

That's where we are so far. We can think what we want to think, but none of those claims have been proven in a court of law. Not one.

And what we (and Chad's kids) have heard so far about those claims was in a case in which LVD and her attorneys were generally apathetic about challenging any of the state's claims and evidence, and in which BOTH SIDES had every motivation to see Chad blamed. It should be no surprise that, before his trial even begins, the state's spin on the events is seen as pure gospel.

I'm not saying CD's innocent at all. But the "evidence" we think we "know" can look very different when it is challenged by vigorous objections to hearsay, made subject to intense cross-examination that may change everyone's perception of what truly happened, witnesses are held liable for conflicts in what they testify, prosecutors are called to account for inconsistencies and misleading statements, and where expert witnesses weigh in on fake "science" being presented as fact and debunk it. Will any of that change anything? You don't know what you don't know.

So if his kids want to be loyal to the one parent they have left, and want a REAL trial to convince them he killed their mom before they turn away, I can't hold it against them. They have been dealt a really bad hand. He has been accused of vile things, to be sure, but he hasn't even had a trial.

FWIW - I can see him saying Lori with Alex were the ones who did the killing, and attempted killing, and who buried kids in his yard without his knowledge or participation. He will say that the state's spin on his convos with Lori of them talking about murderous things in code were total BS inventions, that there was lots of lust (and phone sex in an icky way) but no thoughts of murder, at least not on his part. And then Tammy was an accidental death (as first pronounced) with the state's later view being completely wrong, and invented to frame him with charges of being a murderer too.

There are text messages between the two and I don’t doubt that the State saved a lot for Chad’s trial. He told friends Lori had no children. There are so many things. And he cannot get away from the kids being in his back yard and calling Lori saying “They are looking for the kids” or they found the kids, something to that effect. All recorded.

I agree that her defense didn’t put on a strong case. No need to was there?

On the other hand, I don’t doubt the State would like for this case to go away because Chad is LDS. I have said before I think he and Lori, through his lawyer and hers, had a plan. She would act insane and get out of the death penalty. Then JP would say Chad should not get the DP if Lori didn’t. And that failed.

 

[Ruminations]

Chad claimed that Tammy's health was deteriorating and that she refused to see a doctor about it. At least one of his children supported that theory, e.g. stating how Tammy was tired and started going to bed early. IMO it's not likely Chad will suddenly claim Tammy died by accident.

In the end of July 2019 Chad sent Lori a text about Tammy, saying how it was encouraging that her death percentage was falling since Hiplos (zombie name for Charles) left. Then he texted her in early October that Tammy was taken over by a zombie named Viola and that he didn't want to wait with the removal. To me there's zero room left for an alternative explanation. People were not "leaving", they were being dispatched.

Lori Vallow Daybell Texted Husband About 'Perfectly Orchestrated Plan to Take the Children' Before Deaths

Lori Vallow Daybell is on trial in Boise, Idaho, in connection with the deaths of her two children

people.com

The kids are surviving victims of a murder- the murder of their mother.

Knowingly or not, they dabbled in messaging for the defense of one of the three suspected of the murder.

While I agree they should not be intrusively scrutinized, what they said on television is fair game. We didn't hide a microphone in their houses. We watched them on network TV. They asserted and seemed to believe that their mother died naturally. (Some evidence at Lori's trial did seem to open the door to contradicting that they all firmly believed this, IMO.)

A lot of facts and a jury conviction finding Lori guilty of conspiring to murder Tammy puts her murder at murder, at this point. Not a state theory. We don't have to say alleged murder anymore.

Tammy's children have not been in public for a long time, and they don't have to be. I think it's fair, after so much time and a very significant trial are behind us, to say we have no idea if the children think about this murder as murder at this time. We have no way of knowing if they think it is correct to bring their father to trial for this murder if they do think their mother was murdered.

If they stay quiet, it's none of our business. If they return to giving out a narrative for the defense, it is fair game to scrutinize their statements. At least, that's how I see it.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

The state of Idaho claims that:
Chad murdered their mother.
Chad was unfaithful to their mother.
Chad was in an adulterous relationship with another mans wife and then made sure he was considered “dark” and that Lori would murder him.
Chad then decided Lori’s children were dark and they should be murdered as well.
FIFY

That's where we are so far. We can think what we want to think, but none of those claims have been proven in a court of law. Not one.

And what we (and Chad's kids) have heard so far about those claims was in a case in which LVD and her attorneys were generally apathetic about challenging any of the state's claims and evidence, and in which BOTH SIDES had every motivation to see Chad blamed. It should be no surprise that, before his trial even begins, the state's spin on the events is seen as pure gospel.

I'm not saying CD's innocent at all. But the "evidence" we think we "know" can look very different when it is challenged by vigorous objections to hearsay, made subject to intense cross-examination that may change everyone's perception of what truly happened, witnesses are held liable for conflicts in what they testify, prosecutors are called to account for inconsistencies and misleading statements, and where expert witnesses weigh in on fake "science" being presented as fact and debunk it. Will any of that change anything? You don't know what you don't know.

So if his kids want to be loyal to the one parent they have left, and want a REAL trial to convince them he killed their mom before they turn away, I can't hold it against them. They have been dealt a really bad hand. He has been accused of vile things, to be sure, but he hasn't even had a trial.

FWIW - I can see him saying Lori with Alex were the ones who did the killing, and attempted killing, and who buried kids in his yard without his knowledge or participation. He will say that the state's spin on his convos with Lori of them talking about murderous things in code were total BS inventions, that there was lots of lust (and phone sex in an icky way) but no thoughts of murder, at least not on his part. And then Tammy was an accidental death (as first pronounced) with the state's later view being completely wrong, and invented to frame him with charges of being a murderer too.

Seeing their father CD pat LVDs behind while they put Tylee and JJs belongings in storage really should do it for his children.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1772265988039254033

 

[lightofmine99]

If this thread is for Chad's trial, should the title be altered?

 

[Cindizzi]

If this thread is for Chad's trial, should the title be altered?

We’re using the one below for Chad’s trial:

GUILTY - ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell *Arrests* #77

Police searching for Rexburg children believed to be in serious danger | East Idaho News I believe this is going to be a more complicated case than it looks on the surface. The children's mother (Lori Wallows) recently married a man (Chad Daybell) a few weeks after his wife died. It was...

www.websleuths.com

This one here that we are posting on was created after Lori was found guilty on the other thread and now charged in Arizona with different victims than Chad is responsible for.
Hope that makes sense!

 

[Boxer]

"Religion"
Using it to murder what is in your way and for gain.