Better airport scanners delayed by privacy fears

[hockeymom]

I agree with everyone who says we rely too much on technology. I think it can be used as part of the screening process,but not for everyone,and not as the only line of defense. When you rely totally on technology you lose your human instincts. I'll give an example of using my GPS. Since owning one,I rely totally on that for directions. I don't look at landmarks or pay much attention to my surroundings. I found myself without the GPs for awhile and I literally had to retrain myself to be more observant. So my point is we must train people to use their own senses to spot a potential terrorist,and not fall into a false sense of security with machines.( and what happens when the next target isn't an airport,then what do we do. You can't have scanners in subways,and malls)
As far as a machine picking up nervous behaviors...well I'm really nervous about flying because I'm scared sh**less,would they take me out of line for that? Captain Underpants did not seem nervous at all,by all accounts. As a matter of fact he seemed in a trance,like he's been brainwashed,I don't think he would have been noticed at all.
My understanding is that anyone flying out of Isreal is asked a series of questions,by a human. If they get a hinky feeling from the person,they go thru another layer of security. We need to study their play book.

 

[Morag]

I have 2 words for you:
booty bombs.

Booby Bomb:crazy:

 

[tehcloser]

Washington (CNN) -- A privacy group says the Transportation Security Administration is misleading the public with claims that full-body scanners at airports cannot store or send their graphic images.

The TSA specified in 2008 documents that the machines must have image storage and sending abilities, the Washington-based Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC) said.

In the documents, obtained by the privacy group and provided to CNN, the TSA specifies that the body scanners it purchases must have the ability to store and send images when in "test mode."

That requirement leaves open the possibility the machines -- which can see beneath people's clothing -- can be abused by TSA insiders and hacked by outsiders, said EPIC Executive Director Marc Rotenberg


http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/01/11/body.scanners/index.html

 

[Morag]

tehcloser, you and I are watching the same program!

But we don't need to worry-according the the TSA-

"And employees who misuse the machines are subject to serious discipline or removal."

So if someone's picture winds up on youtube or in the Enquirer, the TSA employee who sold it will be subject to discipline.

I fly a lot- probably get on 40-50 planes a year. I'm not overly concerned about an anonymous viewing of my body becoming public. But this is just an offensive idea for a free society, and it doesn't allow for the bomber who would hide something in a body cavity. What's next, a stirrup table for each of us to mount at the airport?

Here's an article about how it's done in Israel (who admittedly have only a smallish airport and number of passengers to deal with- but who also have a pretty good idea about what a State should be able to do to its citizens):

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother

"Israelis, unlike Canadians and Americans, don't take s--- from anybody. When the security agency in Israel (the ISA) started to tighten security and we had to wait in line for — not for hours — but 30 or 40 minutes, all hell broke loose here. We said, 'We're not going to do this. You're going to find a way that will take care of security without touching the efficiency of the airport."

The US shouldn't be able to force humiliation on its citizens for the sake of security. And this is humiliating- my granny don't want her privates being seen, and neither do the rest of us.

 

[kgeaux]

And no matter how high-tech and effective the machines may be, they are still only as good as the humans operating them.

One thing I wonder about the humans- will they go through these scanners before they enter the secure booth from which they observe the people who are being scanned? Otherwise, I would imagine that there will be cell-phone cameras used/abused to take pix of celebrities, or just of exceptionally well-endowed people, or perhaps of those with funny figures, large and small.

It's easy to imagine abuse like this- if Pamela Anderson (sorry, Pam) goes thru the scanner, an accomplice of the person with the cell phone could say, "hey, get this shot". Next stop, National Enquirer!

We looked into the carry-ons, then Richard Reid wore his explosives on his feet.

We took off our shoes, then there was a plot to put explosives in toiletries.

We went to the 3-oz, plastic bag rule for our toiletries, and then this latest creep sewed his explosives into his undies.

Now we are to expose our bodies for strangers to see. Truly, what is next?

(This morning, as I leaned in to turn on the shower, a kernel of corn popped out from where it had been hiding all night- under my left bazoom. I couldn't help wondering if the scanner would have spotted that little kernel...and I think I could conceal something even larger under there!)

LOL about the kernel of corn!

 

[cianne]

I kind of love the fact that people are freaking out about something that might save them from plummeting from the sky in a fireball. I'm not thrilled about the idea either, but I can get over the discomfort if I'm alive to do so.

 

[jjenny]

I kind of love the fact that people are freaking out about something that might save them from plummeting from the sky in a fireball. I'm not thrilled about the idea either, but I can get over the discomfort if I'm alive to do so.

They already do all kinds of things at the airports they couldn't get away with anywhere else.
Police can't search you without a warrant. At the airport, they make you take your shoes off, search your carry on without a warrant. Where does it stop? That scanner will not see something that a person hides in a body cavity. So I presume you think cavity searches for everyone is fine too?

 

[smart blonde]

X-ray machines can see inside of body cavities, making physical body cavity searches unnecessary.

 

[smart blonde]

Why make it easy for terrorists intent on blowing up airplanes full of passengers, just so I don't have to withstand some comparatively minor inconveniences?

 

[jjenny]

X-ray machines can see inside of body cavities, making physical body cavity searches unnecessary.

No they can not.

 

[jjenny]

Why make it easy for terrorists intent on blowing up airplanes full of passengers, just so I don't have to withstand some comparatively minor inconveniences?

I don't consider this a minor inconvinience. It's an invasion of privacy. And about children?
How is taking an image of a naked child even legal?

 

[smart blonde]

Maybe we should do a test study with the major airlines...

One airline has full safety measures in place, while the other airlines has no safety precautions in place.

Let's see which airlines gets blown up first.

 

[jjenny]

Maybe we should do a test study with the major airlines...

One airline has full safety measures in place, while the other airlines has no safety precautions in place.

Let's see which airlines gets blown up first.

Airlines aren't in charge of airport security.

 

[smart blonde]

Airlines aren't in charge of airport security.

I stand corrected, thank you! (Those annoying symantics, lol!)

Okay, new study:

One airport has full security precautions, the other airport has none.

Which airport is least likely to play a part in, or be associated with, a terrorist attack? I believe the airport with the full security.

Which airport would I feel safest traveling through? Personally, it would have to be the airport with the security measures.

I don't want to get blown up by a bomb- it would wrinkle my clothes.

 

[Cypros]

Utilizing the newest flashy technology does not necessarily translate into better security. It is particularly useless if the human beings running the equipment or poorly trained and underpaid. Besides, no machine can outdo what well-trained, motivated, highly skilled people can do in the area of security. Invest in the personnel. The flashy machines are just to pacify the fears of the wary passengers.

 

[Morag]

Simon (TSA) says...
Let us xray your bags.
Oops, the (minimum wage) TSA employee isn't paying enough attention, and a test bomb gets through.

Simon says...
Let us search your carryon.
Oops,terrorist hides bomb in shoe.

Simon says...
Take off your shoes.
Oops, terrorists plot to carry explosive liquids on board.

Simon says...
Carry your shampoo in 3 oz bags.
Oops, terrorist hides explosive in underpants, goes into plane bathroom to retrieve it.

Simon says...
Don't go into the bathroom in the last hour of flight.
Oops, man with diarrhea spends an hour in the bathroom of plane.

Simon says...
Okay, go to the toilet, but keep your hands in front of you during the flight, no books, no laptop.
Oops, passengers revolt at this requirement.

Simon says..
OK, Granny, read your books, but now you gotta go to the naked machine.
Oops, Granny goes to the naked machine, but she has a pessary in place in which she can stow explosives, but the naked machine doesn't show that.

Oops, terrorists recruit raging Granmas to board with the pessary bombs.
Granma spends time in the toilet, conceals pessary bomb in her romance novel, sits in seat and detonates the pessary book bomb.
What next?

There is no perfect solution. But if every passenger is treated like a terrorist, (yeah, wand my Parkinson's-afflicted MIL, get her out of her wheelchair for a pat-down), then the sheer volume of wanding, xray-ing, and down-patting, coupled with the inattentiveness of a bored TSA employee, well, folks, the terrorists have won.

They have either smuggled those dangerous things on board, or they have completely disrupted and bankrupted our transportation system, or they have forced us to needlessly humiliate millions of citizens on a daily basis. We are better than this. The Naked Machine is not infallible.

Where does it end? We are not very good at catching terrorists, but we are great at treating travelers like terrorists. Look every passenger in the eye. See how his/her flight was booked and paid for. Use common sense. This is how the Israelis do it.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother

 

[Trino]

We just returned from New Zealand to the US, and here's the security checks we had.

1. New Zealand exit security.

2. Ushered immediately through regular type security, except we did not remove shoes. Bags were x-rayed; every person went through door-type screening. Boarding pass and passport checked.

3. Ushered to Air NZ flight site. Boarding pass and passport checked.

4. Ushered into a long line. Each person was hand screening (no x-ray). Females went to one side; males to the other. Carry-on bags were searched. Shoes were off. Passengers were minimally questioned about their trip.

5. Boarding pass and passport were checked again.

6. Finally, we were allowed to go to the gate.

 

[jjenny]

Simon (TSA) says...
Let us xray your bags.
Oops, the (minimum wage) TSA employee isn't paying enough attention, and a test bomb gets through.

Simon says...
Let us search your carryon.
Oops,terrorist hides bomb in shoe.

Simon says...
Take off your shoes.
Oops, terrorists plot to carry explosive liquids on board.

Simon says...
Carry your shampoo in 3 oz bags.
Oops, terrorist hides explosive in underpants, goes into plane bathroom to retrieve it.

Simon says...
Don't go into the bathroom in the last hour of flight.
Oops, man with diarrhea spends an hour in the bathroom of plane.

Simon says...
Okay, go to the toilet, but keep your hands in front of you during the flight, no books, no laptop.
Oops, passengers revolt at this requirement.

Simon says..
OK, Granny, read your books, but now you gotta go to the naked machine.
Oops, Granny goes to the naked machine, but she has a pessary in place in which she can stow explosives, but the naked machine doesn't show that.

Oops, terrorists recruit raging Granmas to board with the pessary bombs.
Granma spends time in the toilet, conceals pessary bomb in her romance novel, sits in seat and detonates the pessary book bomb.
What next?

There is no perfect solution. But if every passenger is treated like a terrorist, (yeah, wand my Parkinson's-afflicted MIL, get her out of her wheelchair for a pat-down), then the sheer volume of wanding, xray-ing, and down-patting, coupled with the inattentiveness of a bored TSA employee, well, folks, the terrorists have won.

They have either smuggled those dangerous things on board, or they have completely disrupted and bankrupted our transportation system, or they have forced us to needlessly humiliate millions of citizens on a daily basis. We are better than this. The Naked Machine is not infallible.

Where does it end? We are not very good at catching terrorists, but we are great at treating travelers like terrorists. Look every passenger in the eye. See how his/her flight was booked and paid for. Use common sense. This is how the Israelis do it.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother

Israel does profiling. US is so PC, how could it possibly do profiling? US rather search 70 year old grandmas in wheelchairs and scan us all naked, than do profiling. I don't see any point in subjecting us to those humiliating machines. At the very least they could design machines that do not show passengers naked bodies, if they want to subject all of us to these scans.

 

[Morag]

Israel does profiling. US is so PC, how could it possibly do profiling? US rather search 70 year old grandmas in wheelchairs and scan us all naked, than do profiling. I don't see any point in subjecting us to those humiliating machines. At the very least they could design machines that do not show passengers naked bodies, if they want to subject all of us to these scans.

The Israelis seem to know what they are doing. If they really profiled all people who looked as though they were "Muslim-appearing", or "Arabic-looking", then that would be a huge percentage of those who pass through the airport. They are looking for evasive, not-looking-security-in-the-eyes, upper-lip sweating, nervous types. And, I believe, the Israeli security apparatus is rather more military than civilian. We could learn a lot from them.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother
...
"It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago," said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy. He's worked with the RCMP, the U.S. Navy Seals and airports around the world.
(snip)

Officers are looking for nervousness or other signs of "distress" — behavioural profiling. Sela rejects the argument that profiling is discriminatory.

"The word 'profiling' is a political invention by people who don't want to do security," he said. "To us, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, young or old. It's just his behaviour. So what kind of privacy am I really stepping on when I'm doing this?"

 

[jjenny]

The Israelis seem to know what they are doing. If they really profiled all people who looked as though they were "Muslim-appearing", or "Arabic-looking", then that would be a huge percentage of those who pass through the airport. They are looking for evasive, not-looking-security-in-the-eyes, upper-lip sweating, nervous types. And, I believe, the Israeli security apparatus is rather more military than civilian. We could learn a lot from them.

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother
...
"It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago," said Rafi Sela, the president of AR Challenges, a global transportation security consultancy. He's worked with the RCMP, the U.S. Navy Seals and airports around the world.
(snip)

Officers are looking for nervousness or other signs of "distress" — behavioural profiling. Sela rejects the argument that profiling is discriminatory.

"The word 'profiling' is a political invention by people who don't want to do security," he said. "To us, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, young or old. It's just his behaviour. So what kind of privacy am I really stepping on when I'm doing this?"

Right. Would you really trust US airport screeners to look out for people that appear nervous? Signs of distress could be due to many different things that have nothing to do with terrorism. For instance, if someone is scared of flying, he or she might appear distressed because of that.