Bones Found on Property

[mysteriew]

Warning! Gruesome!

Here is some additional food for thought. Bones have been found out in the woods, relatively intact, at least recognizable, after decades. But bones found in this yard are "fragmented." Any theories about how they came to be "fragmented?"

 

[mysteriew]

Religious fanatics is not a cause for dismissal of any case.
there are several of those in jail for life.

True. But a defendant has to be believed to be capable of participating in his own defense in order to stand trial. PG is exhibiting a lot of grandiose thinking, even when you read his writings that occurred before his arrest. I am fearing that he could be determined incompetent to stand trial, before ever going to court. Meds might help, therapy also. But all that would take time, so he may easily be hospitalized for a good while before/if he ever goes to trial.

However, I don't believe that what he did was through insanity. He made plans and carried them out, he hid the evidence of his crime for many years. So sane then, yes. But now I am not so sure.

 

[JDB]

Please bare with me here. This might be a little long. But ever since I read today more bones were discovered I have had these thoughts.Also I will try to be PC correct.My big ting is this. If the earlierbone which is said to be Human and possible Native American . It had to be buried over 100 years ago. Why all of the sudden discovered?I say this because like many of you I have buried in my back yard many pets that were my sons. In factSome I buried over 20 years ago. Till this day no bones have ever came close to the surface.

Then with the new ones found yesterday. I read they were found unders shrubs and such that were not lookd at awhile back.Can we really say that the shurbs or plants were not planted to hide what was underneath?

 

[lawlady84]

True. But a defendant has to be believed to be capable of participating in his own defense in order to stand trial. PG is exhibiting a lot of grandiose thinking, even when you read his writings that occurred before his arrest. I am fearing that he could be determined incompetent to stand trial, before ever going to court. Meds might help, therapy also. But all that would take time, so he may easily be hospitalized for a good while before/if he ever goes to trial.

However, I don't believe that what he did was through insanity. He made plans and carried them out, he hid the evidence of his crime for many years. So sane then, yes. But now I am not so sure.

I wouldn't worry too much- Joseph Edward Duncan III was found competent to stand trial AND to represent himself. The proceedings were a circus, and all of his filings basically claimed he was the messiah and he rejects the justice system as not applicable to him. But the judge said that's not an excuse for sadistic rape, torture, and murder of children.

 

[phylliyum]

True. But a defendant has to be believed to be capable of participating in his own defense in order to stand trial. PG is exhibiting a lot of grandiose thinking, even when you read his writings that occurred before his arrest. I am fearing that he could be determined incompetent to stand trial, before ever going to court. Meds might help, therapy also. But all that would take time, so he may easily be hospitalized for a good while before/if he ever goes to trial.

However, I don't believe that what he did was through insanity. He made plans and carried them out, he hid the evidence of his crime for many years. So sane then, yes. But now I am not so sure.

I wonder if he's legit in these delusions, or if he's escalating them to avoid standing trial. Let's be real - he managed to hide a child in his backyard for 18 years with out getting caught, and probably could have gone longer with out getting caught if he hadn't brought Jaycee and the girls with him. He's not stupid - far from it in fact, which makes me think that maybe he's playing up the religious fanatic angle in the hopes of being incompetent to stand trial.
However, once they identify the bones on the property, that may change and he will probably face murder charges. In fact, I wonder if they will attempt to get him for the prostitute murders, as well as Lisa Norell's based on circumstantial evidence.

 

[Pink Panther]

I wonder if he's legit in these delusions, or if he's escalating them to avoid standing trial. Let's be real - he managed to hide a child in his backyard for 18 years with out getting caught, and probably could have gone longer with out getting caught if he hadn't brought Jaycee and the girls with him. He's not stupid - far from it in fact, which makes me think that maybe he's playing up the religious fanatic angle in the hopes of being incompetent to stand trial.
However, once they identify the bones on the property, that may change and he will probably face murder charges. In fact, I wonder if they will attempt to get him for the prostitute murders, as well as Lisa Norell's based on circumstantial evidence.

I've been trying to find info on Lisa Norell and I understand that she was abducted and killed within a timeframe that doesn't preclude Garrido but what is the other circumstantial evidence???

 

[Californian]

I've been trying to find info on Lisa Norell and I understand that she was abducted and killed within a timeframe that doesn't preclude Garrido but what is the other circumstantial evidence???

What do you mean, Pink? What kind of info are you looking for?

ETA: never mind, I see you're referring to phyllium's quote, and I think she means that maybe circumstantial evidence for the Pittsburg murders, including Lisa's, will be found in the Garrido search.

 

[phylliyum]

What do you mean, Pink? What kind of info are you looking for?

ETA: never mind, I see you're referring to phyllium's quote, and I think she means that maybe circumstantial evidence for the Pittsburg murders, including Lisa's, will be found in the Garrido search.

that's exactly what i meant, although I guess i didn't explain myself too well.
i still find that quote from PG's attorney unsettling..they are in teh middle of a crime scene investigation, why wouldn't there be police officers there???? and why the HELL would the suspect be allowed onto the property at this time?????

 

[MWright]

"Two cadaver dogs working separately each showed interest in the same area of property belonging to kidnapping suspects Phillip and Nancy Garrido, a possible indication of human remains, police said Thursday."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/17/california.kidnapping/index.html

Apologies if this has been posted before, or if I am posting it in the wrong thread.

 

[nobody2]

"Two cadaver dogs working separately each showed interest in the same area of property belonging to kidnapping suspects Phillip and Nancy Garrido, a possible indication of human remains, police said Thursday."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/17/california.kidnapping/index.html

Apologies if this has been posted before, if I am posting in the wrong thread.

Seems like an appropriate place to post it to me! Also, the article says there are concrete slabs under some of the outbuildings as well as random slabs in odd places, so they plan to overturn or move all those.

 

[Californian]

No need to apologize, MWright, and you definitely posted the article in the right thread. I might copy some earlier posts from the News Conference thread to this one for continuity because right now we keep getting news scattered around the forum. We can't help post the new developments in the News Conference thread because that's what it's for, but at the same time, we have this thread. :waitasec:

Anyway, what I'm trying to say, is hi and thanks for posting the CNN link.

 

[Californian]

From the News Conference thread about today's developments:

In addition to the KRON link above, here's a link to Sacramento's News10 page that (is supposed) to live stream today's 4:30 pm (PT) daily briefing:

http://www.news10.net/news/liveonline/default-on.aspx?menuid=181.

It will be interesting to learn if the cadaver dogs brought in this morning found anything today.

did they just say two cadaver dogs hit in the backyard? KRON sound was fuzzing in and out

YES they did. Two different cadavar dogs hit on the same spot. The first was a little hesitant but the second gave a more definitive hit. They are going to use the GPR tomorrow on the spot before they start digging.

Tomorrow will be different dogs that will hit on "older" bones. I thought this was significant. The dogs today hit which means it could be a fairly "new" burial. The dogs tomorrow will hit on older burials.

They are going to break up concrete slabs tomorrow. Some were slabs that were under the shed they already dismantled. Some slabs were just "there". The dog handlers said the dogs wouldn't necessarily hit below concrete - so that is why they are going to take those slabs up.

They found writings (alot) of Garrido that they took. They also took some things that they thought might be of some value to Jaycee. Said they took out 10 truckloads of trash today. They are photo documenting everything they take out.

Dogs Find Possible Clue On Garrido Property
Investigators Comb Antioch Yards
POSTED: 4:40 pm PDT September 17, 2009
UPDATED: 4:54 pm PDT September 17, 2009

ANTIOCH, Calif. -- Alameda County sheriff's Sgt. J.D. Nelson said during a search, a cadaver dog gave a tentative feel of a cadaver at one area of the residence of Phillip and Nancy Garrido.

At that point, a second dog was brought in and that dog also indicated on that particular part of the property, Nelson said.

Investigators have been digging on the property of the Garridos to possibly find clues in connection with the disappearance of two girls.

Full story: http://www.kcra.com/news/20974301/detail.html

Cadavar dogs do not hit on animal remains. And the fact that two dogs hit on the same spot means most likely they are going to find something and that something will be human.

For those out there - we all remember the education we got on cadavar dogs during the Anthony case. Plus these dogs today are trained on fairly new remains - IOW they smell human decomposition. The dogs that are going tomorrow are trained on "older" - IOW archeological remains.

If I were to draw conclusions from that presser - they found a "newer" grave today - possibly another birth? Lord, that hurts to type. Tomorrow will tell if there are "older" graves - which could be Michaela or some of the other unsolved cases.

 

[Leila]

I wonder if he's legit in these delusions, or if he's escalating them to avoid standing trial. Let's be real - he managed to hide a child in his backyard for 18 years with out getting caught, and probably could have gone longer with out getting caught if he hadn't brought Jaycee and the girls with him. He's not stupid - far from it in fact, which makes me think that maybe he's playing up the religious fanatic angle in the hopes of being incompetent to stand trial.
However, once they identify the bones on the property, that may change and he will probably face murder charges. In fact, I wonder if they will attempt to get him for the prostitute murders, as well as Lisa Norell's based on circumstantial evidence.

Ever since PG and NG's initial appearance in court, when they both pled "not guilty", I've wondered why. After all, PG and NG were caught with a young woman whom they kidnapped and kept in captivity for 18 years. In fact, I think PG confessed to that in his parole officer's office. So why pled "not guilty?" It would save the state a lot of money if they didn't have to go through a lengthy trial, and it would save Jaycee from the stress of having to testify.

Now, with the possibility that the bones of a victim (or victims) might be found on the Garrido property, I can understand why they would plead "not guilty." If there's kidnap/murder charges added onto the existing kidnap/rape charges that could equal a death penalty case. The "not guilty" plea gives them something to bargain with.

If this is the case, I hope the prosecution doesn't accept a plea bargain.

 

[phylliyum]

Ever since PG and NG's initial appearance in court, when they both pled "not guilty", I've wondered why. After all, PG and NG were caught with a young woman whom they kidnapped and kept in captivity for 18 years. In fact, I think PG confessed to that in his parole officer's office. So why pled "not guilty?" It would save the state a lot of money if they didn't have to go through a lengthy trial, and it would save Jaycee from the stress of having to testify.

Now, with the possibility that the bones of a victim (or victims) might be found on the Garrido property, I can understand why they would plead "not guilty." If there's kidnap/murder charges added onto the existing kidnap/rape charges that could equal a death penalty case. The "not guilty" plea gives them something to bargain with.

If this is the case, I hope the prosecution doesn't accept a plea bargain.

I shuddered reading that, because I am almost positive you are right. The Garridos knew all along it was coming to this.
I think LE will have enough to get them on, with out a plea bargain, unless there are victims not on the property that they are holding onto as a bargaining chip, which is also a possibility.

 

[minazoe]

he wants a trial before he dies of melanoma. In my opinion he wants credit for his handy work. He wants infamy. He is a narssistic predator.

he is enjoying the attention and basking.

 

[Stephens]

That's definitely true, minazoe: he desperately wants the notoriety. Ted Bundy became a celebrity misogynistic serial killer. Now, Garrido wants his due. This is someone who always saw himself as a "rock star," even as a teen.

I don't believe for a second he's mentally ill. As for the religious talk, it's most common for child rapists to seek out and exploit religion to justify their heinous crimes. Hell, even the Klan thought they were working on behalf of God and believed the craziest conspiracies involving blacks and Jews, and yet we don't say they were simply off their rockers. Besides, I think Garrido has been playing the odd bird. He's nothing but a manipulator and a liar.

 

[minazoe]

oh yes, all his belief systems are designed to serve him and his fantasies.

totally .

 

[cindysue]

Warning! Gruesome!

Here is some additional food for thought. Bones have been found out in the woods, relatively intact, at least recognizable, after decades. But bones found in this yard are "fragmented." Any theories about how they came to be "fragmented?"

Is it possible the dogs would do that if bones where in the backyard? I figured they were keep there to keep people away, sick :sick:

 

[phylliyum]

Is it possible the dogs would do that if bones where in the backyard? I figured they were keep there to keep people away, sick :sick:

I was actually thinking of another reason, but its too gruesome to truly consider. I think i might be actually ill at the thought....

 

[Californian]

Warning! Gruesome!

Here is some additional food for thought. Bones have been found out in the woods, relatively intact, at least recognizable, after decades. But bones found in this yard are "fragmented." Any theories about how they came to be "fragmented?"

I was actually thinking of another reason, but its too gruesome to truly consider. I think i might be actually ill at the thought....

Before any of us bring ourselves to type the thought we might be thinking, to see if we're on the same page, are you thinking of an infamous scene from the movie "Fargo"?