Bosma Murder Trial 05.10.16 - Midweek Discussion

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RandomName479 said:
I'm not saying forget who she is. I'm saying stop giving her attention. There is a big difference. Following her on instagram and discussing her social media accounts is attention that IMO she doesn't deserve. You obviously feel very differently than I do about this subject. To each his own.
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Yep. When a certain kind of female criminal gets this much attention (Jodi Arias, etc) it makes me wince. She's trolling, she's winning, the end.
 
I think that Dungey is going to try to minimize MS's involvement in the crime.

- I'll bet we find out that MS was driving the SUV when TB was shot. Or maybe CN dropped them off ?
- I think he is going to refute what CN said he said on the phone, ie "I ****ed up".
- He is going to say that he had no driver's license and DM made him stay to incinerate the body. Maybe at gun point ?
- CN helped with the clean up on the "tiny mission", not MS. He'll say that CN was an accomplice, she knew about the mission, she knew about the gun, she knew about the truck, she knew Bosma was dead, etc.
- DM carried the gun on the test drive. MS didn't know about it.

There were a number of inconsistencies in CN's testimomy. For example, both were totally stoned and sleep deprived and yet they managed to back a big trailer into a driveway and park it perfectly square and 4" from the garage door, in the middle of the night and without running onto the grass or smashing the garage door. Parking a trailer like that takes skill.

CN also says that DM often picked her up in the red truck with the trailer. But yet DM's business partner usually had the red truck.

It is also highly unlikely that fellatio went on for all 45 minutes of the trip. That is a lot of fellatio, just saying, respectfully, for both partners. And those trucks have a console in them that makes it hard to lay across.

And DM was making calls during that trip. MS was not making calls, was not covering things up. MS seemed a lot less like he had something to hide. MS could say he wanted to go to the police but that DM wouldn't let him and threatened his life.

The other thing that could come out was that the plan was for the truck to end up in MB's garage, not on her driveway. The trailer had a winch in it. It was designed to load and unload a race truck, running or not. They could have winched it into her garage. That was probably why MB was up talking to DM in the middle of the night.MS coul

MS could also say the CN was driving the chase vehicle when they were moving the truck the night before.

I think that we are going to see CN and MS in the witness box. Maybe MB. And maybe some of the rest of the gang.

BTW, that trailer has a door on the side that CN and MB could have looked in to see what was inside. Who had keys to the locks on the trailer ?
 
I'm assuming DM will be present during MS defense?
 
If MS testifies, then the LB trial is going to be super turbulent.
 
Question for the legal people......maybe ABro can help us out.....can TD call a witness who has previously testified for the Crown? I could see this happening if something was presented that made clarification necessary/etc, but my understanding (as limited as it is) would be that he should have asked his questions during his cross examination.....can anyone weigh in on this?
 
RandomName479 said:
Question for the legal people......maybe ABro can help us out.....can TD call a witness who has previously testified for the Crown? I could see this happening if something was presented that made clarification necessary/etc, but my understanding (as limited as it is) would be that he should have asked his questions during his cross examination.....can anyone weigh in on this?
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From what I've read and heard that is in fact a possibility
 
artemis17 said:
From what I've read and heard that is in fact a possibility
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I've heard speculation about TD calling MB and Arthur (neither of whom has previously testified)....do you have a link for any source that says TD can RECALL a witness? TIA.
 
Regarding the order of closing arguments:

Subsection 651(4) of the Criminal Code sets out the order of address for multiple accused, and states that where any of the accused calls and examines witnesses, all of the accused are required to address the jury before the Crown does so. -- Source

Therefore, if MS's defence calls any evidence, then both of the defences (MS's and DM's) will have to provide their closing arguments before the Crown does so. This would be a blow to DM if his intent in not calling any evidence was to be able to address the jury last. I did hear one of the reporters say that DM looked shocked and surprised when MS's defence announced they would be calling evidence.
 
SuperSpy said:
I think that Dungey is going to try to minimize MS's involvement in the crime.

- I'll bet we find out that MS was driving the SUV when TB was shot. Or maybe CN dropped them off ?
- I think he is going to refute what CN said he said on the phone, ie "I ****ed up".
- He is going to say that he had no driver's license and DM made him stay to incinerate the body. Maybe at gun point ?
- CN helped with the clean up on the "tiny mission", not MS. He'll say that CN was an accomplice, she knew about the mission, she knew about the gun, she knew about the truck, she knew Bosma was dead, etc.
- DM carried the gun on the test drive. MS didn't know about it.

There were a number of inconsistencies in CN's testimomy. For example, both were totally stoned and sleep deprived and yet they managed to back a big trailer into a driveway and park it perfectly square and 4" from the garage door, in the middle of the night and without running onto the grass or smashing the garage door. Parking a trailer like that takes skill.

CN also says that DM often picked her up in the red truck with the trailer. But yet DM's business partner usually had the red truck.

It is also highly unlikely that fellatio went on for all 45 minutes of the trip. That is a lot of fellatio, just saying, respectfully, for both partners. And those trucks have a console in them that makes it hard to lay across.

And DM was making calls during that trip. MS was not making calls, was not covering things up. MS seemed a lot less like he had something to hide. MS could say he wanted to go to the police but that DM wouldn't let him and threatened his life.

The other thing that could come out was that the plan was for the truck to end up in MB's garage, not on her driveway. The trailer had a winch in it. It was designed to load and unload a race truck, running or not. They could have winched it into her garage. That was probably why MB was up talking to DM in the middle of the night.MS coul

MS could also say the CN was driving the chase vehicle when they were moving the truck the night before.

I think that we are going to see CN and MS in the witness box. Maybe MB. And maybe some of the rest of the gang.

BTW, that trailer has a door on the side that CN and MB could have looked in to see what was inside. Who had keys to the locks on the trailer ?
Click to expand...

- I'll bet we find out that MS was driving the SUV when TB was shot. Or maybe CN dropped them off ?
Agreed, except for the CN part.

- I think he is going to refute what CN said he said on the phone, ie "I ****ed up".
The time for that was when his lawyer cross examined her.

- He is going to say that he had no driver's license and DM made him stay to incinerate the body. Maybe at gun point ?
The text messages about the fireside furniture and sausage roast pic suggest that was the plan.

- CN helped with the clean up on the "tiny mission", not MS. He'll say that CN was an accomplice, she knew about the mission, she knew about the gun, she knew about the truck, she knew Bosma was dead, etc
For him to say that would also be an admission that he knew these things in advance as well. Wont happen.

- DM carried the gun on the test drive. MS didn't know about it.
Agreed.
 
SuperSpy said:
I think that Dungey is going to try to minimize MS's involvement in the crime.

- I'll bet we find out that MS was driving the SUV when TB was shot. Or maybe CN dropped them off ?
- I think he is going to refute what CN said he said on the phone, ie "I ****ed up".
- He is going to say that he had no driver's license and DM made him stay to incinerate the body. Maybe at gun point ?
- CN helped with the clean up on the "tiny mission", not MS. He'll say that CN was an accomplice, she knew about the mission, she knew about the gun, she knew about the truck, she knew Bosma was dead, etc.
- DM carried the gun on the test drive. MS didn't know about it.

There were a number of inconsistencies in CN's testimomy. For example, both were totally stoned and sleep deprived and yet they managed to back a big trailer into a driveway and park it perfectly square and 4" from the garage door, in the middle of the night and without running onto the grass or smashing the garage door. Parking a trailer like that takes skill.

CN also says that DM often picked her up in the red truck with the trailer. But yet DM's business partner usually had the red truck.

It is also highly unlikely that fellatio went on for all 45 minutes of the trip. That is a lot of fellatio, just saying, respectfully, for both partners. And those trucks have a console in them that makes it hard to lay across.

And DM was making calls during that trip. MS was not making calls, was not covering things up. MS seemed a lot less like he had something to hide. MS could say he wanted to go to the police but that DM wouldn't let him and threatened his life.

The other thing that could come out was that the plan was for the truck to end up in MB's garage, not on her driveway. The trailer had a winch in it. It was designed to load and unload a race truck, running or not. They could have winched it into her garage. That was probably why MB was up talking to DM in the middle of the night.MS coul

MS could also say the CN was driving the chase vehicle when they were moving the truck the night before.

I think that we are going to see CN and MS in the witness box. Maybe MB. And maybe some of the rest of the gang.

BTW, that trailer has a door on the side that CN and MB could have looked in to see what was inside. Who had keys to the locks on the trailer ?
Click to expand...


Didn't CN's cellphone ping that she was elsewhere on the 6th and 7th?
 
Is my witness list incomplete? I counted 89 witnesses, but most media reports claim there have been "over 90" and some even claim "over 100" witnesses. Perhaps they're double-counting witnesses who were recalled. Oh well, close enough!
 
SuperSpy said:
I think that Dungey is going to try to minimize MS's involvement in the crime.

There were a number of inconsistencies in CN's testimomy. For example, both were totally stoned and sleep deprived and yet they managed to back a big trailer into a driveway and park it perfectly square and 4" from the garage door, in the middle of the night and without running onto the grass or smashing the garage door. Parking a trailer like that takes skill.
Click to expand...

Brief nitpick, but I'm pretty sure they smashed an exterior light on the house with the trailer, getting it flush up against the garage.
 
RandomName479 said:
Question for the legal people......maybe ABro can help us out.....can TD call a witness who has previously testified for the Crown? I could see this happening if something was presented that made clarification necessary/etc, but my understanding (as limited as it is) would be that he should have asked his questions during his cross examination.....can anyone weigh in on this?
Click to expand...

I've done a bit of searching and haven't found a conclusive answer. However I have found cases where the judge has refused to allow a witness to be recalled. So my guess would be that you need to ask all your questions when the witness is in the courtroom. To recall the witness you'd have to have a good reason, new evidence or testimony that wasn't available when the witness was originally called. MOO.
 
billandrew said:
Is my witness list incomplete? I counted 89 witnesses, but most media reports claim there have been "over 90" and some even claim "over 100" witnesses. Perhaps they're double-counting witnesses who were recalled. Oh well, close enough!
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Billandrew, where can I find your witness list? I am so grateful for the wonderful job you did on the cellphone timeline spreadsheet!! Thank you so much!
 
billandrew said:
Is my witness list incomplete? I counted 89 witnesses, but most media reports claim there have been "over 90" and some even claim "over 100" witnesses. Perhaps they're double-counting witnesses who were recalled. Oh well, close enough!
Click to expand...
You have done a fabulous job!

Adam Carter, Susan Clairmont and Molly Hayes all say over 90, 91 & 91, respectively.
 
RandomName479 said:
Question for the legal people......maybe ABro can help us out.....can TD call a witness who has previously testified for the Crown? I could see this happening if something was presented that made clarification necessary/etc, but my understanding (as limited as it is) would be that he should have asked his questions during his cross examination.....can anyone weigh in on this?
Click to expand...

While my legal understanding has been iffy at times, I expect that they would have be able to recall a witness if necessary as I believe cross examination is limited to matters brought up in direct. But don't, like, bet the house on that. :)
 
billandrew said:
Is my witness list incomplete? I counted 89 witnesses, but most media reports claim there have been "over 90" and some even claim "over 100" witnesses. Perhaps they're double-counting witnesses who were recalled. Oh well, close enough!
Click to expand...

SC and MH both said 91, and I wonder if the +2 is from LE that came back and testified on more than one occasion?
 
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