RiverRat
Patsy Ramsey to the Left
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Boulder police take back Ramsey case
- Thread starter spamelope
- Start date
There were a lot of subtle "hints" in there, Tadpole12
Camper
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--->>>RiverRat are there more than the 10 posts at the link? I didn't see a page 2 or more?
Thanks. I hope this new step in the case will bring Fleet White out of his quiet seclusion.
I also hope they are able to acquire the school records for the Mondays in December that JonBenet visited the school nurse, prior to the tiny girls murder.
.
someone linked the bonita papers in the link and although I knew of them, I had never taken the time read them. one interesting segment:
In August, the Boulder police department contacted Dr. John McCann, one of the nations leading experts on child sexual abuse. McCann had agreed to assist the police department in determining if JonBenet had been a victim of sexual abuse during or before her murder. McCann was sent the autopsy report and photos. According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet.
taken from:
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5858
so many lies too. Interesting that J & P claim they never owned duct tape although their receipts from a local hardware store contained at item at the exact price of the ducttape and patsy was noted asking an employee where she could find duct tape in the store...
In August, the Boulder police department contacted Dr. John McCann, one of the nations leading experts on child sexual abuse. McCann had agreed to assist the police department in determining if JonBenet had been a victim of sexual abuse during or before her murder. McCann was sent the autopsy report and photos. According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet.
taken from:
http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5858
so many lies too. Interesting that J & P claim they never owned duct tape although their receipts from a local hardware store contained at item at the exact price of the ducttape and patsy was noted asking an employee where she could find duct tape in the store...
MrsG728
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Everyone should read this book. I agree 100% :clap:
cajun
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Thanks, I will watch it then and get up to speed again, it's been a long time since her death and I tend to forget stuff. :bang:
madeleine
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http://www.keprtv.com/news/national/38840337.html
"Lacy said the reason her office took over the case in 2002 was that the Ramsey family had no confidence in the police. "It wasn't that they were incompetent," she said of the officers."
They weren't the first nor the last suspects who "didn't trust the police",what's the big deal about it Lacy?Who cares,that's not the point.Duh.
"Lacy said the reason her office took over the case in 2002 was that the Ramsey family had no confidence in the police. "It wasn't that they were incompetent," she said of the officers."
They weren't the first nor the last suspects who "didn't trust the police",what's the big deal about it Lacy?Who cares,that's not the point.Duh.
madeleine
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Okay,okay
I always said that IMO this is NOT a DNA case,but only because they tried to use it as a trick in this case.....
BUT I will be more than pleased if they go back and re-test everything and think again if the Ramsey's should have been cleared solely because DNA didn't match.
What is all this,a new game?
I will never trust dna tests when it comes to this case,see what you did to me Lacy&co?
Anyway,I am glad because it's obvious that dna isn't the only evidence they will revisit,so go for it,I can't wait.
I always said that IMO this is NOT a DNA case,but only because they tried to use it as a trick in this case.....
BUT I will be more than pleased if they go back and re-test everything and think again if the Ramsey's should have been cleared solely because DNA didn't match.
What is all this,a new game?
I will never trust dna tests when it comes to this case,see what you did to me Lacy&co?
Anyway,I am glad because it's obvious that dna isn't the only evidence they will revisit,so go for it,I can't wait.
Thinaire
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Lord I hope this is it...this was my first case that I have followed closely over the years.
I will have to drag out all my books and reread them!
OK...I wonder-wonder...perhaps this new move is because one or more of the possible suspects in this case have turned 21?
I was always a Patsy did it...John helped cover up...but think the abuse could be from a minor in or close to the family. Possibly 2...
I will have to drag out all my books and reread them!
OK...I wonder-wonder...perhaps this new move is because one or more of the possible suspects in this case have turned 21?
I was always a Patsy did it...John helped cover up...but think the abuse could be from a minor in or close to the family. Possibly 2...
madeleine
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I always wondered about John as well.....how much did he help her with the cover up?When exactly and how did he find out?Is it possible that he doesn't know as much as we think he does?
And re Burke.....I still keep 10% free for him,was never able to exclude the BDI theory....
(70% Patsy did it
20% Burke did it
10% intruder
,,,that's me)
And re Burke.....I still keep 10% free for him,was never able to exclude the BDI theory....
(70% Patsy did it
20% Burke did it
10% intruder
,,,that's me)
RiverRat
Patsy Ramsey to the Left
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Let me kill your curiousity, Roy......there would be no change at all with the RDI's - we've come to accept the fact that a Ramsey got away with murder and if all that your side can come up is the likes of John Mark Karr......LMAO, I mean really?! Is he the best you guys had left to come up with?! See? There really isn't much of a worry that an innocent person will actually be charged........they may have their life devestated, but they won't do prison time.
All Roads Lead to Ramsey -
RR
All Roads Lead to Ramsey -
RR
kevmob77
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Here is why I believe the Ramsey family (Patsy & John) is involved in the murder:
1.) Notebook paper and pen were items from the Ramsey home itself
2.) The ransom note must have taken at least an hour to write (6+ pages) inside the home (see 1)
3.) The parents let their son stay at a friends home unaccompanied by them all the while there was a ransom note and subsequent murder in their own home. At this point, how could it be established that the Ramseys could feel comfortable leaving their son in the care of anyone besides law enforcement or themselves unless they knew he was in no danger of a kidnapper/s?
4.) Patsy referred to JonBenet on camera as "that child".
5.) Patsy (while alive) and John have done absolutely nothing to help the investigation. In fact, I would say they impeded it.
6.) Left the Boulder, CO area relatively soon.
7.) John just happened to find the body of JonBenet in the basement. (only when friends were over at the house)
8.) With all their money, have they done one single thing in regards to helping others who have gone through similar events? By that, I'm not saying a $100,000 to just shut up donation by John. Take a look at someone like Mark Lunsford (father of Jessica), with relatively no money, and see the difference.
9.) John is a very strange man (notice his inability to look at someone/camera in the eye). Patsy was odd as well. If they weren't involved, they may be 2 of the biggest cold fish that's ever come down the pike.
My theory:
I believe John molested JonBenet frequently. I believe Patsy knew about it. Something went wrong that one night in 1996. Whether Patsy caught him in the act or John was performing some sick sex act on JonBenet is anybody's guess. Either way, I think Patsy thoroughly enjoyed the high lifestyle she had. She decided to protect John because if he was finished, so was she. She wrote that ransom note, there is no doubt in my mind. It was carefully constructed. The whole murder scene was. So was the phone call. The Ramsey's were a wealthy and prominent family in Boulder. They had clout. The crime scene was so contaminated because John called everyone of his pals to come on over to his house. I believe this was a strategic move planned all along by John. He wasn't stupid. Although they are reopening the investigation, I find it unlikely that too much will come of it because of all I mentioned above.
1.) Notebook paper and pen were items from the Ramsey home itself
2.) The ransom note must have taken at least an hour to write (6+ pages) inside the home (see 1)
3.) The parents let their son stay at a friends home unaccompanied by them all the while there was a ransom note and subsequent murder in their own home. At this point, how could it be established that the Ramseys could feel comfortable leaving their son in the care of anyone besides law enforcement or themselves unless they knew he was in no danger of a kidnapper/s?
4.) Patsy referred to JonBenet on camera as "that child".
5.) Patsy (while alive) and John have done absolutely nothing to help the investigation. In fact, I would say they impeded it.
6.) Left the Boulder, CO area relatively soon.
7.) John just happened to find the body of JonBenet in the basement. (only when friends were over at the house)
8.) With all their money, have they done one single thing in regards to helping others who have gone through similar events? By that, I'm not saying a $100,000 to just shut up donation by John. Take a look at someone like Mark Lunsford (father of Jessica), with relatively no money, and see the difference.
9.) John is a very strange man (notice his inability to look at someone/camera in the eye). Patsy was odd as well. If they weren't involved, they may be 2 of the biggest cold fish that's ever come down the pike.
My theory:
I believe John molested JonBenet frequently. I believe Patsy knew about it. Something went wrong that one night in 1996. Whether Patsy caught him in the act or John was performing some sick sex act on JonBenet is anybody's guess. Either way, I think Patsy thoroughly enjoyed the high lifestyle she had. She decided to protect John because if he was finished, so was she. She wrote that ransom note, there is no doubt in my mind. It was carefully constructed. The whole murder scene was. So was the phone call. The Ramsey's were a wealthy and prominent family in Boulder. They had clout. The crime scene was so contaminated because John called everyone of his pals to come on over to his house. I believe this was a strategic move planned all along by John. He wasn't stupid. Although they are reopening the investigation, I find it unlikely that too much will come of it because of all I mentioned above.
little_miss_smart
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This is great news!
I've followed the JBR case on and off from the UK and I have always hoped that one day justice will prevail, let's hope it does. I only know the basics of JBRs murder, but I will be following this with great interest and hopefully learn a few things along the way.
I have followed Madeleine McCann's case and really feel that it is going nowhere, I cannot see justice happening unfortunately.
Thankfully, Casey does not have the same standing as the Ramseys or the McCanns. I am certain, in Caylee's case, justice will be done.
I've followed the JBR case on and off from the UK and I have always hoped that one day justice will prevail, let's hope it does. I only know the basics of JBRs murder, but I will be following this with great interest and hopefully learn a few things along the way.
I have followed Madeleine McCann's case and really feel that it is going nowhere, I cannot see justice happening unfortunately.
Thankfully, Casey does not have the same standing as the Ramseys or the McCanns. I am certain, in Caylee's case, justice will be done.
Ames
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Craig Sliverman, former Chief Deputy DA in Denver was on Fox News just a little while ago. I will try to find the transcript for it, but until then...here is a little bit of what he said.
"Mary Lacy lost credibility with the Karr Fiasco."
"Karr arrest was gift to the Ramsey's".
Reporter and Silverman talk about the new DNA evidence....
Reporter: There has been new advances in Linquistics, tell us more about that.
Silverman: (Talking about the touch DNA that was found) "DNA evidence could be significant or contamination. There is a debate about that. As far as linquistics, we have the War and Peace of Ransom Notes here. There is alot of language, alot of handwriting, so it may be that some new sophisticated program can identify who wrote that ransom note, at least provide a good clue."
From Ames: We can ONLY HOPE!!!!
Edited to add...Video link to Silverman Interview on Fox
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video...//www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,487347,00.html
"Mary Lacy lost credibility with the Karr Fiasco."
"Karr arrest was gift to the Ramsey's".
Reporter and Silverman talk about the new DNA evidence....
Reporter: There has been new advances in Linquistics, tell us more about that.
Silverman: (Talking about the touch DNA that was found) "DNA evidence could be significant or contamination. There is a debate about that. As far as linquistics, we have the War and Peace of Ransom Notes here. There is alot of language, alot of handwriting, so it may be that some new sophisticated program can identify who wrote that ransom note, at least provide a good clue."
From Ames: We can ONLY HOPE!!!!
Edited to add...Video link to Silverman Interview on Fox
http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video...//www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,487347,00.html
Ames
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I brought this over from another thread that I had posted it on...
Here is the NG Transcript from last nights show...I snipped the portion about little Caylee Anthony.
GRACE: Straight out to Jean Casarez with "In Session." Jean, the case is reopened?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION", COVERING STORY: That`s right. The district attorney that just took office a few days ago is actually handing it back to the police department. They will convene a task force to look at basics. Police notes from way in the beginning to discover and try to find out who killed JonBenet Ramsey.
But I think, Nancy, the revelation here, I think, comes from new DNA evidence uncovered midyear last year.
GRACE: And what are you -- what DNA evidence are you referring to specifically?
CASAREZ: Well, let`s talk about 1997. They did find DNA in the panties of JonBenet Ramsey, an undisclosed male DNA. That was thought it could have been the person that put the panties together in China, but last year, nuclear DNA testing of touch DNA testing was done and found DNA on the side of the long johns on both sides that was identical to the DNA in the panties.
GRACE: You are seeing new photos we have just obtained of JonBenet Ramsey and the crime scene.
To Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer on the case, what can you tell us, Rupa?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: About the evidence, Nancy. You`re talking about these photos, for example. There`s -- a lot going to in this case and this is what`s so frustrating to prosecutors as well as the police department.
As you know, they made an announcement today. They will be working jointly, formulating a task force of about 20 people that will be revisiting all of the evidence, all of the records in the case. There`s some chance also that now with newly available technology they will be able to revisit actual evidence that they weren`t able to process before and maybe look at it and find new evidence from this current evidence in the evidence room.
GRACE: To Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst and director of Cold Case Squad -- Sheryl, the killer felt so at home in the Ramsey home he/she wrote, I believe, a five-page ransom note.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: Right.
GRACE: . claiming to take the child away. Wrote a practice note as well. Come on, it was written with, let`s see, Patsy Ramsey`s sharpie on Patsy Ramsey`s notepad. Then.
MCCOLLUM: Then put it back on her desk.
GRACE: And then the so-called kidnapper says you know what, to heck with all the money. I`m just killing her here and leave her body.
MCCOLLUM: Right. All in the same house. And this killer felt so at home on Christmas Eve he went up and down the steps, stayed in the home a while, went and found the pen. Went and got her blanket. Went and got a toy. Yes, he was in no hurry to leave this house. This stranger. And don`t forget the chronic vaginal injury.
GRACE: Explain.
MCCOLLUM: On the autopsy report it explains in great detail that JonBenet suffered chronic vaginal injury which means she was molested over a period of time. So again this stranger would have to have access to her. And then you know harm her sexually and then come in the house and kill her at another time.
GRACE: To Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner, Broward County, the new investigative task force says that additional testing will be done.
What testing do you believe that may be?
PERPER: Well, probably they`re going to review the entire body of evidence. And as it was indicated, there was some new evidence which was found recently. And most likely they will try to match the DNA to the national database.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez with "In Session," why have the police decided now to take the case back?
CASAREZ: Well, I think the D.A.`s office is giving it back to the police department. Remember, 2002, the D.A.`s office took over the investigation because the police department was amid with controversy about how they had handled this case. Now it`s going back where they believe it should be.
You know, Nancy, when I was in Colorado in 2006, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation told me that they had tested more items for DNA from this case than in the history of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation as to any other case in Colorado.
GRACE: Jean, have they any new theories?
CASAREZ: Well, I don`t think they have new theories, but they have new DNA techniques. And I think that is going to be central to this case. But can we only say this is a DNA case now? Or can we still say that other evidence will lead to clues to find the killer?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCCOLLUM: Very methodically. And let me tell you one thing. Maybe I misspoke with chronic. But I`ll tell you one thing I know for sure. The killer is out there.
GRACE: The abrasion is -- regarding the hymen. The child did have, still have a hymen. So what does that suggest to you, Sheryl?
MCCOLLUM: Maybe not full-on penetration. But again, an assault of some sort that should not have occurred with somebody 6 years old.
GRACE: And back to Jean Casarez, where do we go from here?
CASAREZ: Well, the task force is being selected now. They will reconvene. And I don`t think we will hear anything until they have evidence that they believe should be released to the public.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Travis Stottlemyer, 20, Hatfield, Pennsylvania. Awarded the National Defense Service medial, Global War on Terrorism Service medal. Loved outdoors, music, softball, Discovery Channel, playing with nieces and nephews. Leaves behind parents Robert and Cheryl, three sisters.
Travis Stottlemyer, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
Here is the NG Transcript from last nights show...I snipped the portion about little Caylee Anthony.
GRACE: Straight out to Jean Casarez with "In Session." Jean, the case is reopened?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION", COVERING STORY: That`s right. The district attorney that just took office a few days ago is actually handing it back to the police department. They will convene a task force to look at basics. Police notes from way in the beginning to discover and try to find out who killed JonBenet Ramsey.
But I think, Nancy, the revelation here, I think, comes from new DNA evidence uncovered midyear last year.
GRACE: And what are you -- what DNA evidence are you referring to specifically?
CASAREZ: Well, let`s talk about 1997. They did find DNA in the panties of JonBenet Ramsey, an undisclosed male DNA. That was thought it could have been the person that put the panties together in China, but last year, nuclear DNA testing of touch DNA testing was done and found DNA on the side of the long johns on both sides that was identical to the DNA in the panties.
GRACE: You are seeing new photos we have just obtained of JonBenet Ramsey and the crime scene.
To Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer on the case, what can you tell us, Rupa?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: About the evidence, Nancy. You`re talking about these photos, for example. There`s -- a lot going to in this case and this is what`s so frustrating to prosecutors as well as the police department.
As you know, they made an announcement today. They will be working jointly, formulating a task force of about 20 people that will be revisiting all of the evidence, all of the records in the case. There`s some chance also that now with newly available technology they will be able to revisit actual evidence that they weren`t able to process before and maybe look at it and find new evidence from this current evidence in the evidence room.
GRACE: To Sheryl McCollum, crime analyst and director of Cold Case Squad -- Sheryl, the killer felt so at home in the Ramsey home he/she wrote, I believe, a five-page ransom note.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST, DIR. COLD CASE SQUAD AT PINE LAKE P.D.: Right.
GRACE: . claiming to take the child away. Wrote a practice note as well. Come on, it was written with, let`s see, Patsy Ramsey`s sharpie on Patsy Ramsey`s notepad. Then.
MCCOLLUM: Then put it back on her desk.
GRACE: And then the so-called kidnapper says you know what, to heck with all the money. I`m just killing her here and leave her body.
MCCOLLUM: Right. All in the same house. And this killer felt so at home on Christmas Eve he went up and down the steps, stayed in the home a while, went and found the pen. Went and got her blanket. Went and got a toy. Yes, he was in no hurry to leave this house. This stranger. And don`t forget the chronic vaginal injury.
GRACE: Explain.
MCCOLLUM: On the autopsy report it explains in great detail that JonBenet suffered chronic vaginal injury which means she was molested over a period of time. So again this stranger would have to have access to her. And then you know harm her sexually and then come in the house and kill her at another time.
GRACE: To Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner, Broward County, the new investigative task force says that additional testing will be done.
What testing do you believe that may be?
PERPER: Well, probably they`re going to review the entire body of evidence. And as it was indicated, there was some new evidence which was found recently. And most likely they will try to match the DNA to the national database.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez with "In Session," why have the police decided now to take the case back?
CASAREZ: Well, I think the D.A.`s office is giving it back to the police department. Remember, 2002, the D.A.`s office took over the investigation because the police department was amid with controversy about how they had handled this case. Now it`s going back where they believe it should be.
You know, Nancy, when I was in Colorado in 2006, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation told me that they had tested more items for DNA from this case than in the history of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation as to any other case in Colorado.
GRACE: Jean, have they any new theories?
CASAREZ: Well, I don`t think they have new theories, but they have new DNA techniques. And I think that is going to be central to this case. But can we only say this is a DNA case now? Or can we still say that other evidence will lead to clues to find the killer?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCCOLLUM: Very methodically. And let me tell you one thing. Maybe I misspoke with chronic. But I`ll tell you one thing I know for sure. The killer is out there.
GRACE: The abrasion is -- regarding the hymen. The child did have, still have a hymen. So what does that suggest to you, Sheryl?
MCCOLLUM: Maybe not full-on penetration. But again, an assault of some sort that should not have occurred with somebody 6 years old.
GRACE: And back to Jean Casarez, where do we go from here?
CASAREZ: Well, the task force is being selected now. They will reconvene. And I don`t think we will hear anything until they have evidence that they believe should be released to the public.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Travis Stottlemyer, 20, Hatfield, Pennsylvania. Awarded the National Defense Service medial, Global War on Terrorism Service medal. Loved outdoors, music, softball, Discovery Channel, playing with nieces and nephews. Leaves behind parents Robert and Cheryl, three sisters.
Travis Stottlemyer, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
azwriter
Sister Mary Wanna
cajun, nope. Never saw the movie. I was afraid it would not follow the book. So, I just skipped it. Instead I found the book to be very thorough. And, lots of facts I hadn't known before.
I recommend the book - it's out in paperback.
azwriter
Hey, this is progress. At least she finally ADMITS she let the prime suspects control her office and lead her around by the nose.
Far as I'm concerned, she should have been disbarred for what she did. I will NEVER forgive her. Absolutely not. NEVER.
I won't go quite so far as RR. I've never been good at making predictions.
But I will say that I'm not too worried, for the reasons RR gave. If JMK (I KNEW I forgot one!) is the best the IDIs can come up with, it doesn't inspire my confidence.
Right on both counts. Mary Lacy is so crooked, when she dies, the undertaker will have to screw her into the ground with a Black & Decker power drill!
Yeah, I was hoping someone would bring up that linguistics bit, considering how the LAST linguistics analysis turned out, hint hint.