CA CA - Bryce Laspisa, 19, Castaic, 30 Aug 2013 - #8

[la2cabo]

Knowing the area around Castaic Lake, I can say from a SAR standpoint I don't think there is anyway that the area has been cleared with a high degree of certainty. The reason LE sees it differently, simple, they are not SAR and were not looking at it from that standpoint. Happens ALL the time.

From a SAR standpoint do you have any thoughts on what they might be looking for? At what point do they stop searching that area?

 

[CatFancier]

I'm going to say things I've thought for awhile now. I mean no disrespect to family, but why the continued searches in Castaic? LE doesn't feel is necessary, what does the family believe?

Well, Klass Kids seems to feel it's warranted since they keep asking for more volunteers. We don't know what they believe but we do know they're actively working with others apart from LE.

We have plenty of MP's here who have no family involvement. We need to be thankful we have the info we do from our insiders and move forward as best as we can. We aren't searching for Bryce for his parents, we're searching for Bryce because we care about HIM, even if he doesn't want to be found.

 

[sreshowtime]

Until Bryce is found, sometimes you just have to try to figure out where he's not. And each time you find where he's not, brings you closer to where he is. You can go thru a lot of not to get to the is.

 

[shadowinlaguna]

We posted at the same time, but your post is better. They actually have been very open about what was going on with Bryce.

To me, certain classes of people are very vulnerable, beyond the obvious. Those include deployed soldiers and their families, people who have a terminally ill loved one or people whose child is missing.

They should be treated very gently and with compassion.

My dad is terminal and I've taken off work for the past three months. All I do is clean,cook and administer my dads meds along with diaper changes. My cousin went off on me the other day for ignoring her. It was over a missed call and text. I had doctors and nurses coming out of my home all day after a seizure. I get to points where I feel so overwhelmed I don't know how to properly respond and when I do I feel bad for not handling it all. I went through my ex being missing as well. I told some of you about him, an army major who never made his next post (base). There were days I didn't even respond to my my mom calling. I guess what I'm trying to say is I agree with this poster. I'm one of those people who gets back to everyone in a timely manner and the only two situations that I haven't were when I had/have extreme mental exhaustion. I know what this family is going through. They don't sleep well,barely eat and get excited to get let down. Give them a little bit of a break.

 

[Redux]

Ok, let's ask this...
What information that we don't have would help to bring Bryce home? Is this information that the family has? If they do, then why haven't they been able to use it to find him?
I am truly not trying to pick on anyone, but looking at this from a SAR management standpoint, and I believe, that if they had the answers to the questions I need/want to know, that they would have found him by now. Make sense? The rest of the information, while true, does paint a picture of who he was/what he may have been going through/ while juicy, does not actually help me to find him. Make sense?

I think that more detailed information regarding the day before Bryce disappeared and the way he was acting leading up to when he disappeared could possibly help people to get a better idea of where Bryce was coming from, and therefore help people to get a better idea of what actions he took after the crash. Why did someone take away his keys? He was acting odd. Okay, but odd in what way? That could mean so many things. Acting agitated or rather acting high? A big difference between the two, and acting "odd" could really mean a numerous amount of things. The way he was acting in more detail could shed light on what was happening with him.

Obviously the fact that the family has this information has not helped them bring Bryce home. However, it could help someone else bring Bryce home. 100 heads are better than one.

At the same time, the above information (how exactly he was acting before the crash) could possibly lead people to the conclusion that he left on his own which could discourage people from searching more. It's a double edged sword in my opinion.

All JMO and all.

 

[sarx]

From a SAR standpoint do you have any thoughts on what they might be looking for? At what point do they stop searching that area?

Items that might have been left behind, and sadly, him. In areas like that, it is so tough to thoroughly search. Only the area right around the vehicle was really searched in a grid pattern.
Trying to get up the numbers, but basically if you do the math, looking at even a one mile radius and then convert that to how many square feet you are looking at needing to search, the number becomes much more real and HUGE. Will see if I can find those numbers (or you can google it).

 

[branwynbreeze]

Well, Klass Kids seems to feel it's warranted since they keep asking for more volunteers. We don't know what they believe but we do know they're actively working with others apart from LE.

We have plenty of MP's here who have no family involvement. We need to be thankful we have the info we do from our insiders and move forward as best as we can. We aren't searching for Bryce for his parents, we're searching for Bryce because we care about HIM, even if he doesn't want to be found.

I am thankful, just frustrated. My heart wants him found like yesterday, but my head feels as if they are looking in wrong place. Assuming he was running on adrenaline after crash how far on foot in Castaic could he go before variables set in-sleep, food, body aches from crash?

 

[la2cabo]

Items that might have been left behind, and sadly, him. In areas like that, it is so tough to thoroughly search. Only the area right around the vehicle was really searched in a grid pattern.
Trying to get up the numbers, but basically if you do the math, looking at even a one mile radius and then convert that to how many square feet you are looking at needing to search, the number becomes much more real and HUGE. Will see if I can find those numbers (or you can google it).

Thank you. I have never been involved in SAR so I know very little about it. After this amount of time would there be anything left of a body? Would cadaver dogs still be able to pick up something?

On a side note: I have a very old friend who has been involved with Sierra Madre SAR for at least 20 years. You may know him. Are you in CA?

 

[zwiebel]

I'm glad Bryce's parents hope he is still alive, because if he is out there somewhere and hears they think he's dead, it wouldn't exactly encourage him to return.

Because of the car accident and the injury though, I feel he is still at the Lake area myself, and I am glad searches are still being carried out there. It's when the organized searches stop ( or in some cases don't ever start) that it becomes really sad and hopeless. I really don't think there has been any foul play here - but I'm just going by the circumstances around the accident and what police have said and done so far.

 

[zwiebel]

I have tended to think since hearing about events in the days leading up, that the meandering journey was all about Bryce making a decision, and going back and forth, in his mind and physically. I'm not sure there are any clues to be found there as to what he was going to do, or where he was going to go. I think he might not have really known himself.

 

[HulaMum]

Ok, it's a different sort of story but there's always hope Bryce is alive and wanting to be found. Here's the story of a man found today after three months in the woods, stranded by an animal attack (he was prepared for a 2-month hike).

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/man-found-three-months-woods-stranded-bear-attack-163546591.html

I hope the folks with Klaas Kids get a good turn out to search this weekend.

 

[zwiebel]

I have been looking at this old website via wayback, because it's now offline. The photos along Ridge Route are amazing, but I look at them and to my European eyes the land just seems endless, and very daunting.

http://web.archive.org/web/20110101025531/http://users.resist.ca/~kirstena/pageridgeroute.html

 

[gitana1]

Ok, let's ask this...
What information that we don't have would help to bring Bryce home? Is this information that the family has? If they do, then why haven't they been able to use it to find him?
I am truly not trying to pick on anyone, but looking at this from a SAR management standpoint, and I believe, that if they had the answers to the questions I need/want to know, that they would have found him by now. Make sense? The rest of the information, while true, does paint a picture of who he was/what he may have been going through/ while juicy, does not actually help me to find him. Make sense?

It does make sense.

I think that more detailed information regarding the day before Bryce disappeared and the way he was acting leading up to when he disappeared could possibly help people to get a better idea of where Bryce was coming from, and therefore help people to get a better idea of what actions he took after the crash. Why did someone take away his keys? He was acting odd. Okay, but odd in what way? That could mean so many things. Acting agitated or rather acting high? A big difference between the two, and acting "odd" could really mean a numerous amount of things. The way he was acting in more detail could shed light on what was happening with him.

Obviously the fact that the family has this information has not helped them bring Bryce home. However, it could help someone else bring Bryce home. 100 heads are better than one.

At the same time, the above information (how exactly he was acting before the crash) could possibly lead people to the conclusion that he left on his own which could discourage people from searching more. It's a double edged sword in my opinion.

All JMO and all.

This family has expert assistance from people who really know what they're doing. So I think they also realize the possible double-edged sword.

But here's what I keep seeing: the information that I and many others on here want may help us determine more closely what happened to Bryce, or what is more likely: Suicide, homicide, mental issue and wandering or voluntary disappearance.

But what does that info do to actually FIND him. Since LE, the family and Klaaskids has the info and still do not seem to be able to pick one option definitively, what makes us any better? Why do we think we are so wise that we will be able to make a specific determination when they haven't?

Ultimately, all it can do is increase probabilities, possibly, in our minds and I bet even if we had every last question answered, we would still have 50 opinions. So IMO, it's kind of irrelevant at this point to actually finding him.

In the end, the same techniques will be used, because no one possibility can be totally ruled out. So no matter what, there will be ground searches, lake searches, pleas for him to come home, review of computer and phone records, interviewing the people who know him and pleas for info.

I think at this stage our jObs as sleuthers are to come up with more ways to get the word out to others, to Bryce and to join searches when we can, hand out flyers, think up good locations to flyer or search, etc.

 

[Redux]

But what does that info do to actually FIND him. Since LE, the family and Klaaskids has the info and still do not seem to be able to pick one option definitively, what makes us any better? Why do we think we are so wise that we will be able to make a specific determination when they haven't?

Snipped by me. I don't think that my opinion, determination or anything else on here will do anything to find Bryce. But then again, I generally just come to read the threads, I don't actively sleuth.

However, there are people here who actively sleuth - they comb through the reported events and make timelines and try to figure things out. Some help out in person. Heck, Amanda even went out trying to drum up more information.

So while I don't think anything I have to say makes a hill of beans difference, I do think there are people here who think outside the box and could possibly come up with a logical conclusion of where Bryce is. And while most people here aren't as experienced as Klaaskids or any other professionals they may hire, each person here brings their own experiences to the table, unique experiences that may in some way parallel Bryce's and add new ideas to the pot.

JMO

Ultimately, all it can do is increase probabilities, possibly, in our minds and I bet even if we had every last question answered, we would still have 50 opinions.

This is also a definite possibility. Sometimes when we have so much information we still can't agree on what happened. But maybe not. You never know.

 

[Redux]

Looking at this in the opposite direction, what are the possible downfalls for the family to disclose more information about Bryce's behavior prior to him missing?

1. Privacy issues for Bryce when he comes back. Affects his future if people know any secrets.

2. May discourage people from searching if they think his behavior points to him leaving on his own.

Can anyone think of anything else? Ways that disclosing that information could hurt Bryce or the search for him?

 

[shadowinlaguna]

Looking at this in the opposite direction, what are the possible downfalls for the family to disclose more information about Bryce's behavior prior to him missing?

1. Privacy issues for Bryce when he comes back. Affects his future if people know any secrets.

2. May discourage people from searching if they think his behavior points to him leaving on his own.

Can anyone think of anything else? Ways that disclosing that information could hurt Bryce or the search for him?

If he is out there taking a break he's probably not going to come back when all eyes are on his story. If he is out there I think he will show up when this dies down

 

[sarx]

And the reality is, no matter how much is divulged, people are always going to say that things are being kept secret, that things don't add up, that something isn't being told.... I think sometimes it just gets too overwhelming for families that no matter what they do it is never enough, and so they retreat because it's just too exhausting to deal with their missing loved one AND the criticism of the rest of the world. Not just talking this case, but in generals, it is a definite pattern.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Agreed sarx and the last thing we should be doing is criticizing family for not giving us what we want. That comes out of frustration but just think how much more frustrating it is for the family. I have seen family members chased off cases for not having all the answers or not being able to share things or "not adding up" based on sleuthers preconceived notion of how/what something should be done or said.

We are here to support the family and the missing person. When it looks like death is likely then it si the family we are supporting. They are often told not to say to much by LE as well, and then there is a lot of of information that is of interest out of curiosity but has no place in the investigation and we have no right to it.

I just don'[t understand getting down on the very people whose hearts are broken and are desperate for answers. They can only share so much and they can only be in public so much...and as i mentioned earlier, when people do share, often they are chased off because it doesn't "fit"

 

[la2cabo]

Looking at this in the opposite direction, what are the possible downfalls for the family to disclose more information about Bryce's behavior prior to him missing?

1. Privacy issues for Bryce when he comes back. Affects his future if people know any secrets.

2. May discourage people from searching if they think his behavior points to him leaving on his own.

Can anyone think of anything else? Ways that disclosing that information could hurt Bryce or the search for him?

The possibility the information could implicate others that don't necessarily want to be involved?

 

[Whiteorchids]

I'm back to square one. IIRC Caron and roommate SD said Bryce packed and left to spend Labor Day with GF Kim Sly, that was his intentions and would be back Monday, then it all went South. Everything changed. Something upset him badly thats why he told his Mom he had to "blow-off some steam". I'm thinking it had something to do with Bryce and Kim's relationship and what took place that day. The Vyanese could have added to the problem causing paranoia and delusional way of thinking making his behavior totally irrational and wanting the breakup. That's why Kim and her roommate took the keys because they knew he was under the influence which can make a situation that is not quite so bad escalate. Like how alcohol can completely change a persons behavior and make a situation worse. I think every move Bryce made from the moment he left Kims place was impulsive and he didn't know what he was going to do next.


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