GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #1

[Curious Me]

To us, or at least me, it seems LE held off releasing details. I wonder why they didn't say if Ilona was really working at the mall or not. The way information is provided to the public is a mystery in itself. This isn't criticizing LE for doing what they must, but IMO, it sounded like a possible love triangle only because the events leading up to the murders were so limited and confusing. Plus, the witness reports were not fully disclosed either for some reason.

I've had my eyes out looking for Gianni all this time, but maybe I should've been looking for striped sweaters.

Two young people were shot down at a mall during the holiday season. Now, if Gianni was a victim of homicide, I hope they would mention if it was some random killer or not.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Izzy it has been mentioned by the family that it was not unusual for Sal to pick up Ilona from work in the past when she was working in La Jolla/Del Mar. Sorry I tried to scan the early posts/MSM that stated so and just didn't see it at a glance.

I remember this too, but at the time of the murders she was in Mission Valley, not LJ or DM. So the question remains, was she working at the mall or not? Was SB picking her up from work or not, and if so, why was he doing it and not GB?

I'm not drawing any inferences from this, just trying to understand why she and SB were at the mall, and if the explanation is that she worked there and he was picking her up, why he was doing it and not GB. There could well be a reasonable explanation but at that hour?

GB would not have been in class. If he was working at another job that prevented him from picking IF up, what was it? Nothing of the sort has been mentioned.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I find it a real stretch that all three were killed by the same person or persons. The suspect described by witnesses could have approached the car to possibly rob or carjack & saw the bodies and took off. I have read the whole thread tonight & I think the murder weapon for all three deaths was found in the trunk.

I'm sorry, I am having trouble understanding your logic.

If it is a real stretch that all three were killed by the same person or persons, then it doesn't follow that the murder weapon for all three was found in the trunk.

The same murder weapon for all three would indicate that all three were indeed killed by the same person or persons.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

To us, or at least me, it seems LE held off releasing details. I wonder why they didn't say if Ilona was really working at the mall or not. The way information is provided to the public is a mystery in itself. This isn't criticizing LE for doing what they must, but IMO, it sounded like a possible love triangle only because the events leading up to the murders were so limited and confusing. Plus, the witness reports were not fully disclosed either for some reason.

I've had my eyes out looking for Gianni all this time, but maybe I should've been looking for striped sweaters.

Two young people were shot down at a mall during the holiday season. Now, if Gianni was a victim of homicide, I hope they would mention if it was some random killer or not.

BBM. I agree. There is much that has not been released. The question is why, if there's a random killer or killers at large that the public needs to be aware of.

 

[MsFacetious]

I'm sorry, I am having trouble understanding your logic.

If it is a real stretch that all three were killed by the same person or persons, then it doesn't follow that the murder weapon for all three was found in the trunk.

The same murder weapon for all three would indicate that all three were indeed killed by the same person or persons.

I believe the poster meant it's a stretch to think all 3 were killed by a 4th person.
I believe the poster is implying that Gianna killed S and I then killed himself with the same weapon.
That is just the impression I got though and I could certainly be wrong. :seeya:

 

[MsFacetious]

Is there any possibility that the car has been there since around the last week of Dec? I am not familiar with decomposition how long does it take for the body to smell? How long until the smell goes away?How long does it take for the body to reach the peak of the smell? I remember in college learning about Casper's law regarding decomposition but it didnt really stick with me. If I remember right a dead body that has had trauma decomposes faster. I have never seen a dead body nor smelled one and I'd prefer to keep it that way.

My 59 year old Aunt died on June 23rd in a room with no air conditioning.
There was no odor, she was found within 24 hours. It was 87 degrees that day.

In an amazing stroke of bad luck for my family...
My 76 year old Uncle also died on June 23rd alone in his condo, likely in the middle of the night.
After trying to reach him for a couple of days someone went up to check on him on June 27th.
Upon opening the door they were hit with the obvious smell of decomposition.

He also did not have air conditioning in his condo.
It was so bad almost everything in the condo had to be thrown away. uke:
The family mortician said "an open casket is simply not an option because of decomposition."

The high temperatures while he was in the condo dead were:

June 23 - 87
June 24 - 91
June 25 - 89
June 26 - 94
June 27th - 101

It appears it's been 70-85 degrees in the area since Christmas Eve.
Factoring in being in the trunk and it'd be much hotter, over 100 degrees even in the shade.
I would expect a smell within a week. When the smell would go away?? That I don't know. :twocents:

 

[AmandaFast]

My 59 year old Aunt died on June 23rd in a room with no air conditioning.
There was no odor, she was found within 24 hours. It was 87 degrees that day.

In an amazing stroke of bad luck for my family...
My 76 year old Uncle also died on June 23rd alone in his condo, likely in the middle of the night.
After trying to reach him for a couple of days someone went up to check on him on June 27th.
Upon opening the door they were hit with the obvious smell of decomposition.

He also did not have air conditioning in his condo.
It was so bad almost everything in the condo had to be thrown away. uke:
The family mortician said "an open casket is simply not an option because of decomposition."

The high temperatures while he was in the condo dead were:

June 23 - 87
June 24 - 91
June 25 - 89
June 26 - 94
June 27th - 101

It appears it's been 70-85 degrees in the area since Christmas Eve.
Factoring in being in the trunk and it'd be much hotter, over 100 degrees even in the shade.
I would expect a smell within a week. When the smell would go away?? That I don't know. :twocents:

I'm so sorry for your losses. Two in the same day that's extremely strange!

As for the last question. I remember reading in a few different places over the years that a body in temperatures above 80 degrees can be completely skeletonized in as short as 2 weeks. However that was taking into account that the body was outdoors or at least accessible to insects and scavengers. Since neither of those are options in a trunk, I'd have to surmise that it would probably take double or triple that amount of time. At the point of skeletonizing the smell would disappear and since it only just appeared...I'm thinking the body was not there for the whole month.

The only other thing I can think of that might taint that is if this was a 4th person who wanted the body to not be found for whatever reason and attempted to mask the smell in some way.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[Sandyggo]

This was not a robbery or car-jacking. It was a cold blooded murder. So since nobody heard gunshots, even though a Christmas tree lot guy was living in his trailer 100 feet away, and there were customers shopping at the mall --thanks to our new shop late on Christmas Eve greedy retailer trend.... this was a hit. It was shots to the head and torso that nobody heard because the hitman used a weapon with a silencer.

The hitman then killed Gianni and left his car in Riverside. We can speculate that it was suicide, but the coroner has already said homicide in the report.

This is not a public safety problem because LE already knows it is personal. You don't kill two brothers in different venues at random. You murder because you have been hired or because you have a personal motive.

Follow the money. The tumultuous relationship between the Donato and Belvedere families is obvious and then there is Vic Balsano, who lost his business, his job, his home because of the Belvedere's plan to pursue the LaPrimavera pasta business.

Money is not the root of all evil, the lack of money is. This is a Family Affair. <modsnip> We need to look at the family members in this who had motive.

Scam Diego, er... San Diego is a well known mafia town. We have a legacy of mafia here. <modsnip>

 

[MsFacetious]

The coroner hasn't ruled it a homicide, the autopsy hasn't even been done yet.
They are ASSuming a homicide until the autopsy, because of the circumstances. It's preliminary.
Only after the autopsy is done will we know for sure if it was homicide or suicide. :twocents:

Also interesting, almost every single "Victim of a Homicide" listed on here...
Has the investigating agency "Riverside County Sheriff's Department &#8211; Central Homicide Unit (CHU)"
Gianni's just lists "Riverside PD." Why doesn't he get the Homicide Unit investigating his?

http://www.riversidesheriff.org/coroner/press/


Utah news has been busy with 2 murder suicides including the entire family of a local cop. :tears:
However, they have picked up the story now:

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28418060&ni...h-body-in-trunk&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-1

 

[glitterghost]

Just throwing another theory out. Could this have been a case of mistaken identity? Perhaps someone was out to kill Gianni and assumed Salvatore was Gianni (esp since the girlfriend was with him)...and upon figuring out they hit the wrong brother, tracked down the "right" brother and killed him too? I swear, cases like this are maddening to try and figure out.

 

[thebestinthewest]

Based on what I just saw on the news the media is moving towards suicide :/ I guess it makes sense on the approach the family has been taking in the media. If there really was a suspect I feel law enforcement would be obligated to warn the public. :banghead:

 

[madamehdivision]

Christ, I had an entire thoughtful post typed up, then I lost it. Thanks Websleuths.

In short, I'm thinking suicide. And that G was the mall shooter, wearing the striped sweater he's worn in orior photos. And because it was dark, its not unreasonable for a witness to describe the shooter as being black skinned. G was quite olive, in any event.

Moving on to the body in the boot. I believe at this stage that LE has viewed any security footage and drawn their conclusions from same ie whether the footage depicts the homicide taking place or whether it shows the car being dumped by a third party. Taking into account decomposition in the event it was homicide, then what happened? Was G held against his will all this time? Unlikely, as it doesn't appear there was a ransom demand. Was he killed closer to Christmas and then refrigerated? Or was he killed at the time the car was dumped? The answers are all NO IMO. LE would have gone public by now if it was a definite homicide captured on camera. At this stage, they cant rule out suicide, which leads me to believe the manner of death is likely suicide.

 

[jash]

As a local, I heard about the shooting and GB going missing when they happened, assumed the love triangle theory was correct when GB remained missing, and gave it little thought until the car and body were discovered on Friday.

Today I have read this whole thread and I have some questions that I didn't see answers to, for anyone who has been following the case closer than I:

1. Has it been confirmed anywhere in the MSM that Ilona worked at the Mission Valley Mall?

<snipped>

From one of the recent articles:
"Flint’s stepfather, Nathan Jones, said Flint worked at a store in the mall."

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jan/17/gianni-belvedere-mission-valley-shooting-christmas/

 

[bwt42]

I'm sorry, I am having trouble understanding your logic.

If it is a real stretch that all three were killed by the same person or persons, then it doesn't follow that the murder weapon for all three was found in the trunk.

The same murder weapon for all three would indicate that all three were indeed killed by the same person or persons.

Thanks to MsFacetious for explaining my post before I got back to this thread. I did mean that a fourth person was not involved. I'm still going with the murder suicide.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

[snipped for focus]
Gianni's just lists "Riverside PD." Why doesn't he get the Homicide Unit investigating his?

I think it's because Riverside PD has turned the case over to SDPD as the lead investigating agency.

 

[TravelingBug]

<snip>
The hitman then killed Gianni and left his car in Riverside. We can speculate that it was suicide, but the coroner has already said homicide in the report.
.<snip>

Then you must have information that both Riverside and San Diego investigators do not.

And I find it hard to believe that they would continue to assert that homicide does NOT exclude suicide in this case (well, or any other until it's been definitively proving as homicide that is NOT self-inflicted) if they were sure he was murdered.

In addition, as they have stated the autopsy will be completed mid-week THIS week, that also indicates the coroner has NOT made a ruling on whether it was homicide by another individual, or self-inflicted.

Since you've stated that it's mafia related and a personal hit on the family as well as definitively proven that it was murder despite no autopsy yet, can you please link to a source to those details?

Press-Enterprise today (and all week last week):

San Diego police had been seeking that car, a 2004 Toyota Camry, in connecting with a missing San Diego man, Gianni Leonardo Belvedere, 24. The Riverside County coroner website says that the body is that of a 24-year-old male. Riverside County Sheriff’s Deputy Mike Vasquez said that the body has not been identified.

<snip>

And although the website says that the cause of death was homicide, Vasquez said, suicide has not been ruled out.

KGTV's interview with a retired SDPD homicide detective - as posted several times in the last few days:

Retired SDPD homicide detective Rick Carlson told 10News, "When you find a body in the trunk of a car, it's usually unusual but not out of character for someone that was confused and disoriented and has been involved in such a horrendous event already. You'll find that sometimes when people do commit suicide they look for places that are unusual to get to so people won't find them."

The coroner's office in Riverside County listed the 24-year-old man's body as being a victim of homicide.

10News asked Carlson if that ruled out the possibility of suicide. He said no.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I think it was a fourth person who did all the shootings. I see no reason for G to have crawled into a trunk to commit suicide. I don't know if he was the target or the4 other two or all 3 but i do agree with the poster who said she thought a silencer was used.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

"And although the website says that the cause of death was homicide, Vasquez said, suicide has not been ruled out."

http://blog.pe.com/breaking-news/2014/01/20/riverside-autopsy-on-body-found-in-trunk-set/

Oops. Jinx with TB.

 

[knt42]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/twists-cal...ory?id=21594164&ref=https://www.google.co.uk/

 

[Curious Me]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/twists-cal...ory?id=21594164&ref=https://www.google.co.uk/

Thank You, knt. The video goes over what a real mystery this is at this point. It's interesting that a former FBI is speculating that someone may have wanted all three dead. If this turns out to be a homicide, he went over possible motives, and says this could even go back to someone in Utah for all they know. Any ties of the three people will be gone over to figure this out. Then again, Gianni's death could still have been a suicide. We'll find out later this week. In the meantime, it's on my mind a lot.


Good Morning America
Third Body Deepens Calif. Double Murder Mystery

http://abcnews.go.com/US/twists-cal...ory?id=21594164&ref=https://www.google.co.uk/