CA - High Court Denies Crips Co-Founder's Death Row Appeal

[JBean]

THis is on our news night and day. John and Ken , on KFI,have an hour on the radio called "Tookie must die" I think they have been named in a lawsuit as being racist or some such nonsense.

Tookie's nomination for the Nobel Peace prize is a very interesting item. Note he didn't win it, he was only nominated. he was nominated by a swiss philosopher (I think that's the nationality). IMO they just got someone to nominate him to slowly build this case for clemency over the years.
Yetserday KFI did readings from his books. OMG, pretty sad if that is Nobel Peace prize winning literature.

I do not support the death penalty at all, so I would want him to have LWOP, but I feel that way across the board, not for any of this bogus crap they are dishing us.

 

[scandi]

Thanks JellyBean, Well stated. Isn't it interesting the open media isn't telling the truth about this!


Scandi

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Ya'll come on over! We've started a small thread:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30682

 

[JBean]

Snoop Dog may be a rich rapper, but he also glorifies raping of women, drug and alcohol abuse and the "" life in general. So, while he may think that this "Crip" did the world a big favor by exposing all of us to "Snoop Dog," some peole may not think the same. Certainly its no reason to erase his record.

FWIW
Snoop is pretty big around here , in SoCal,right now with his youth football team. A lot of us see him regularly on the field and at all the games.
I only mention this because he has added to his credibility over the past 2 or three years and some may be more inclined to listen to what he has to say these days.

 

[Details]

"nominated for a nobel prize" - that seems to have become a very useless, almost negative honor. The nomination process is so open that it's being used to nominate people just so they can use the title, not because they've really done anything to deserve it.

Doesn't sound like he's got any real remorse at all, other than that he got caught and is going to die for it.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

FWIW
Snoop is pretty big around here , in SoCal,right now with his youth football team. A lot of us see him regularly on the field and at all the games.
I only mention this because he has added to his credibility over the past 2 or three years and some may be more inclined to listen to what he has to say these days.

Hopefully Governor Schwarzenegger won't be one of them.

 

[JBean]

"nominated for a nobel prize" - that seems to have become a very useless, almost negative honor. The nomination process is so open that it's being used to nominate people just so they can use the title, not because they've really done anything to deserve it.

Doesn't sound like he's got any real remorse at all, other than that he got caught and is going to die for it.

Bill Handel a DJ on KFI got himself nominated today to prove that very point.

 

[JBean]

Hopefully Governor Schwarzenegger won't be one of them.

They would have to come up with something pretty substantial for Arnold to do anything. I can almost guarantee thre will be no change based on the information available right now. Now if they came up with some concrete wrong doing related to the trial that would be another story.

 

[cinsbythesea]

They would have to come up with something pretty substantial for Arnold to do anything. I can almost guarantee thre will be no change based on the information available right now. Now if they came up with some concrete wrong doing related to the trial that would be another story.

I agree totally. Add in the fact that San Quentin officials have actually taken the (I think) unprecedented measure of putting their 2 cents in about his associating with Crips in the exercise yard, no remorse, etc. Considering they are the ones that have been dealing with him 24/7 for the past 20+ years I would think there would be a lot of credibility in what they are saying. I didn't vote for Ahnold and don't like most of what he's doing but I must say I do sympathize with the decision he must make in this. IMO, I think he'll not grant the clemency.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I agree totally. Add in the fact that San Quentin officials have actually taken the (I think) unprecedented measure of putting their 2 cents in about his associating with Crips in the exercise yard, no remorse, etc. Considering they are the ones that have been dealing with him 24/7 for the past 20+ years I would think there would be a lot of credibility in what they are saying. I didn't vote for Ahnold and don't like most of what he's doing but I must say I do sympathize with the decision he must make in this. IMO, I think he'll not grant the clemency.

I agree with both of you. The chances of this having the sentence overturned is very very remote. Schwarzenegger, in his campaign, said he wouldn't be soft on crime and supports the death penalty. So, hard to say you support something and then stop it. This prisoner may have fooled a lot of people, and there are a lot of people on board who just don't agree with the death penalty. In the end, I don't think any of that will matter.

 

[concernedperson]

It seems that Vernell Crittendon isn't happy with old Tookie either. He just talked about assault of staff members, inappropriate sexual behavior and, of course the association with Crips members. So, this kinda makes the children's books less importent if it is ony for self-enhancement. He was on Catherine Crier's show.

 

[William N]

Nancy Grace discussed this story last night. She really ripped into Williams and his supporters. Nancy was in her prosecutor mode.

 

[JBean]

I agree with both of you. The chances of this having the sentence overturned is very very remote. Schwarzenegger, in his campaign, said he wouldn't be soft on crime and supports the death penalty. So, hard to say you support something and then stop it. This prisoner may have fooled a lot of people, and there are a lot of people on board who just don't agree with the death penalty. In the end, I don't think any of that will matter.

KFI reported yesterday that when Tookie was found guilty after his trial, he turned to the members of the jury and mouthed:
I am going to get each and every one of you M*****advertiser censored**ers.

 

[PrayersForMaura]

'Tookie Must Die' -- Why Many Blacks Oppose Clemency for Williams

Editor's Note: It's a myth that a large majority of blacks oppose the death penalty, detest police and as jurors won't vote to convict a fellow black. In fact, writes PNS contributing editor Earl Ofari Hutchinson, some of the loudest voices calling for the execution of Stanley "Tookie" Williams come from black communities. Hutchinson is author of "The Crisis of Black and Black."
Video: Pro-Tookie rally at San Quentin prison; screening of a movie on his life story.

LOS ANGELES--The small crowd of clergy, community activists and death penalty opponents that gathered in front of the Los Angeles courthouse recently was no different than other groups that for weeks have kept up the drum beat for California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to grant Stanley "Tookie" Williams clemency.

There was one very loud exception. A young African-American man shouted that Williams was a and a murderer and should die. He was not an agitator or a crank. He represented a body of pro-death penalty sentiment among blacks that has seldom been publicly heard during the great Tookie debate.

I was not surprised when I heard this young man's words, for there are many blacks like him who want Williams dead. The instant I went to bat in my columns for clemency for Williams and against the death penalty in general, the e-mails and comments I got flew hot and heavy. Black critics bitterly reviled me for advocating clemency. They were adamant that Williams must pay for his crimes, and for the murder and mayhem the Crips gang, which he helped found, has unleashed on impoverished black communities.

Their hardened attitude toward Williams flew in the face of conventional wisdom that says that blacks are passionate opponents of the death penalty. They aren't.

During the past decade, even as more whites have said they are deeply ambivalent about the death penalty or oppose it, many blacks continue to say that murderers, even black ones, must pay with their lives. A Harris Interactive poll in August 2001 found that nearly half of black respondents supported capital punishment. Three years later, a Gallup Poll found that black support for the death penalty still hovered at close to 50 percent.

http://news.pacificnews.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=0272f9852637179479b7fa874a10d7aa

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't think that prison reformation should be considered in granting clemency for murderers. In my opinion, that would be akin to someone who is arrested for rape/kidnapping, released on bail awaiting trial for a couple of years and finds Jesus! Should that person's rape/kidnapping charge be thrown out simply because in that period of time between the crime and the punishment that person repents? In my opinion, no. A punishment is handed down for a crime. The crime didn't change, so why should the punishment?

 

[winelover]

This save Tookie campaign confounds me. The man is a cold blooded killer who is conning people.

I was reading the DA's response to clemency, in it a death certificate of a juror AND a sworn affidavit from another juror that one of the jurors was black (he is now dead) is presented.

I then go to Tookie's site (bleh, I need a shower) and they link to the ninth circuit dissent on the jury race issue (this document is dated before the Nov DA response to clemency).

Even the Save Tookie site admits there were non whites on the jury, a latino and a filipino.

Has anybody read the ninth cirucit dissent and understand if they are even saying the jury was all white? I think this is what the Tookie people want us to think they are.

I am trying to slog through it, but I am no lawyer so it is slow going.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

This save Tookie campaign confounds me. The man is a cold blooded killer who is conning people.

I was reading the DA's response to clemency, in it a death certificate of a juror AND a sworn affidavit from another juror that one of the jurors was black (he is now dead) is presented.

I then go to Tookie's site (bleh, I need a shower) and they link to the ninth circuit dissent on the jury race issue (this document is dated before the Nov DA response to clemency).

Even the Save Tookie site admits there were non whites on the jury, a latino and a filipino.

Has anybody read the ninth cirucit dissent and understand if they are even saying the jury was all white? I think this is what the Tookie people want us to think they are.

I am trying to slog through it, but I am no lawyer so it is slow going.

I haven't read it, but I've heard about it. There were apparently three minorities on the jury. I'm not sure how many minorities it takes to make up a "fair" jury for a black defendant, but its a non-issue in this case. These so-called supporters seem to be under the mistaken belief that a jury must be made up by one's "peers." That's simply not the case. The jury must be made up of unpartial individuals. That's all that we are guaranteed.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Tookie's team is apparently going to have his hearing tomorrow before Schwarzenegger. They probably won't have an answer tomorrow, he'll take it under advisement, but I'm 99.99999% sure that there's no way Schwarzenegger will grant clemency. Arnold wants to be re-elected. Some California cities have been literally destroyed by gangs and gang culture. People are afraid to leave their homes at night and the justice system in this culture is at a dead stop. People simply won't testify against them. For a governor wanting re-election to NOT execute someone like Tookie is career suicide.

 

[Sleuth]

The Ninth Circuit court of Appeals is THE SINGLE MOST overturned court in the U.S. The rulings they hand down are OVERTURNED by the U.S. Supreme Court, for being faulty and/or unconstitutional, more than any other court in the land. Because their rulings are so "out there" most of the time, they have earned the nickname, "The Ninth CIRCUS court of appeals". They are a joke. So, if Tookie is hoping to save his butt on some ruling of the ninth circuit, he is really desperate.

Nice try Tookie and friends, but the clock is running......

 

[winelover]

So, if Tookie is hoping to save his butt on some ruling of the ninth circuit, he is really desperate.

Nice try Tookie and friends, but the clock is running......

It is even better than that, the ninth circuit ruled AGAINST him. (I think it was 13-9). The Tookie groupies are using the dissent to try and sway people.

:laugh: