CA - Rebecca Zahau Nalepa - suicide or murder? #10

[MyBelle]

I have had a child in extremely critical condition. The doctor did not come in late at night to give us information. We were allowed to see the charts.

And I have had a family member in extremely critical condition and the doctor did come at 3 AM and ask us to sign a DNR.

We didn't need to see "the charts" in order to believe them.

JMO

 

[tiredblondy]

Don't doctors usually do their rounds in the daytime hours? I can't see a doctor giving them this information really late at night. To me it would appear if that is what Jonah was saying in the phone call he had already known Max wasn't going to live much earlier than the call.

Hi Plumeria
I've had lots of experience with ICU and loved ones. In my experience the main doctors are there during regular hours such as daytime but at night there is one of the hospital docs on call for the ICU.

I, myself, have never been in an ICU (and I've been in ICU's a lot ) where the doctors were there in the ICU 24 hrs.

The nurses can call them at anytime but one of my biggest problems with my mom once was not finding her doctor while she was in ICU and the ummm doctor on call could not be found. Very scary time. Needless to say I was furious.

 

[revampz]

I cant understand why though they ruled this an accident with an animation showing someone running and going over the railing and yet there was a scooter on him and this was not mentioned in how he died. And yet people (including lawyers) keep mentioning planking. You think they'd give us an explanation as to how he died INCLUDING the scooter and how it ended up where it did. Also if she gave him CPR why was the scooter on him and if she rolled him over why was the scooter still on him........sorry but now I am really starting to think cover up.

 

[SunnieRN]

I have had a child in extremely critical condition. The doctor did not come in late at night to give us information. We were allowed to see the charts.

Where I work, only parts of the chart are given to the family to see. Things like lab results and copies of consents.

Xray or CT results, biopsies etc., need to be gone over by the doctor prior to being released.

Our doctors come in at different times of the day or evening, depending upon when they see patients and how many are scheduled in their office that day.

Our hospitalist patients always have a doctor at the hospital 24/7. So, it can vary a lot.

I don't think it would be impossible for JS and DS to speak with a doctor that late, but it would be unlikely that they would have a conversation of that type that late at night. Doctors like to discuss a negative prognosis during the day, when clergy and social workers are there so the family has supportive services available.

 

[Plumeria5]

Where I work, only parts of the chart are given to the family to see. Things like lab results and copies of consents.

Xray or CT results, biopsies etc., need to be gone over by the doctor prior to being released.

Our doctors come in at different times of the day or evening, depending upon when they see patients and how many are scheduled in their office that day.

Our hospitalist patients always have a doctor at the hospital 24/7. So, it can vary a lot.

I don't think it would be impossible for JS and DS to speak with a doctor that late, but it would be unlikely that they would have a conversation of that type that late at night. Doctors like to discuss a negative prognosis during the day, when clergy and social workers are there so the family has supportive services available.

I agree with you. The charts we were allowed to see were from the nurses written in first person as if they were our preemie saying encouraging things like, "I had a good night, Mom and Dad". etc. Won't go in to detail but very heartwarming things to make parents feel better.

 

[SunnieRN]

I agree with you. The charts we were allowed to see were from the nurses written in first person as if they were our preemie saying encouraging things like, "I had a good night, Mom and Dad". etc. Won't go in to detail but very heartwarming things to make parents feel better.

It sounds like you had a very good experience!! I am happy to hear that! Preemies are so tiny and fragile. It is scary when you finally get to hold them. Especially if they have iv's, feeding tubes and oxygen!! I hope your wee one is healthy now?!

 

[MyBelle]

I cant understand why though they ruled this an accident with an animation showing someone running and going over the railing and yet there was a scooter on him and this was not mentioned in how he died. And yet people (including lawyers) keep mentioning planking. You think they'd give us an explanation as to how he died INCLUDING the scooter and how it ended up where it did. Also if she gave him CPR why was the scooter on him and if she rolled him over why was the scooter still on him........sorry but now I am really starting to think cover up.

It does appear that is where this is headed. The question is, cover-up by whom?

RN couldn't remember details about how she found his body yet a scooter was there. Seems pretty significant.

All LE did was present an illustration as to how it may have happened. And evidently they didn't view the scooter as being either factual, or perhaps, relevant. Maybe LE felt it was placed there later and discounted it along with the planking explanation?

JMO

 

[PeteJ]

In a long drop hanging? Usually the neck breaks which should prevent any clawing of the rope.

It is not at all common to have hands tied behind the back in a hanging suicide.
My experience as a mental health professional. MOO

 

[SunnieRN]

ITA plus LE have cleared JS. My husband and I volunteer at a RMcD House and comings and goings are through a secured entrance. There really is no motive for JS to hire a hit because all he had to do was tell her to clear out of his home and his life. That's free.

JMO

I bet that was a rewarding experience. I volunteered with Give Kids the World, at Walt Disney World a few times. It was fun and rewarding on many levels.

 

[Plumeria5]

It sounds like you had a very good experience!! I am happy to hear that! Preemies are so tiny and fragile. It is scary when you finally get to hold them. Especially if they have iv's, feeding tubes and oxygen!! I hope your wee one is healthy now?!

All grown up! Quite a long time until we got to hold her wrapped like a mummy in a ton of blankets. She at a children's hospital and me at another, husband going back and forth. Tough time.
Very seldom did we EVER get to see a doctor. It was frustrating.

 

[PeteJ]

I agree with you. The charts we were allowed to see were from the nurses written in first person as if they were our preemie saying encouraging things like, "I had a good night, Mom and Dad". etc. Won't go in to detail but very heartwarming things to make parents feel better.

Absolutely..in a case as touchy as this, charts wouldn't be shown to the parents because of possible legal issues. Attornies could force the issue but its rare to be shown a medical chart like this one without attornies involved.

 

[SunnieRN]

It is not at all common to have hands tied behind the back in a hanging suicide.
My experience as a mental health professional. MOO

How do you feel about the rest of what was done Pete? Bound feet, naked, t-shirtwrapped around the noose and stuffed in her neck?

Thanks!

 

[MyBelle]

Absolutely..in a case as touchy as this, charts wouldn't be shown to the parents because of possible legal issues. Attornies could force the issue but its rare to be shown a medical chart like this one without attornies involved.

In my own experience, I know that isn't true.

JMO

 

[CalElliot]

I also have trouble believing her supposed statements to her family that she felt no guilt, and that she shopped and talked about other things, with no sign of being that upset that she would kill herself.

She "shopped"?

Link please.

 

[SunnieRN]

All grown up! Quite a long time until we got to hold her wrapped like a mummy in a ton of blankets. She at a children's hospital and me at another, husband going back and forth. Tough time.
Very seldom did we EVER get to see a doctor. It was frustrating.

As a nurse, that is the most common complaint I get. Why hasn't my doctor been here yet? Very frustrating!

 

[PeteJ]

In my own experience, I know that isn't true.

JMO

Well I guess my experience is different than yours. After 30 plus years I have never seen a case where staff volunteer a chart review for the family in a questionable situation without attorney advise. Never. But thats just my experience. MOO

 

[CalElliot]

Help, I've been here a long time but don't think I've ever needed to know how to use the ignore function.

Can anyone send me in the right direction or just tell me? Thanks

I hear you about the tempting "ignore function"... the trouble is that, however hard to stomach, much of this case seems to hinge on spin battles being waged live in the media. I can't help wondering how tuning out a voice might affect those battles. Better to read and not respond?

 

[PeteJ]

How do you feel about the rest of what was done Pete? Bound feet, naked, t-shirtwrapped around the noose and stuffed in her neck?

Thanks!

Thanks SunnieRN. I have never seen anything like it in 32 years of practice. Women don't usually hang themselves much less naked. But even so lets say she did so. The hands bound behind the back and the T shirt around the neck and in the mouth plus the cryptic message all point to homicide to me. Just the planning is baffling. Do you agree? Getting the paint and the rope? Just because the only DNA or fingerprints are from RZ does not equal suicide. It could mean gloves. I can't see what I know of this young woman doing this angry, angry act. MOO

 

[MyBelle]

Well I guess my experience is different than yours. After 30 plus years I have never seen a case where staff volunteer a chart review for the family in a questionable situation without attorney advise. Never. But thats just my experience. MOO

I guess so. I questioned the care my father received and I received a full record. There are over a thousand pages. No attorney neccessary. I'm betting if the Shacknai parents had questions about their child's care, they did not have to obtain an attorney to receive the chart.

JMO

 

[PeteJ]

I guess so. I questioned the care my father received and received a full record. There are over a thousand pages. No attorney neccessary. I'm betting if the Shacknai parents had questions about their child's care, they did not have to obtain an attorney to receive the chart.

JMO

Probably they did not need an attorney but I'll bet the hospital attorney was involved. We are always within our rights to question the care. MOO